Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Messages 61 - 80 of total 44856 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 20, 2011 - 10:29am PT
Yeah, govt isn't big enough, and doesn't spend enough.

By Halloween the debt will be 100% of GDP

Gary

climber
Desolation Row, Calif.
Oct 20, 2011 - 10:46am PT
Yep, thanks GOP! And thanks for pointing out yet another reason that Republicans are wrong, TGT.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 20, 2011 - 10:53am PT
Is that the best you got, Fatty?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 20, 2011 - 11:25am PT
What's the start date on the chart Garry?

Who was in charge?


apogee

climber
Oct 20, 2011 - 12:18pm PT
Gosh, another chart. How innovative!
Gary

climber
Desolation Row, Calif.
Oct 20, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
What's the start date on the chart Garry?

Another good point, TGT! Say, what did the chart before that date look like, hmmm?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 20, 2011 - 12:44pm PT
referring to DTs last comment:
Riiiiiight. And Corporations are people too, just like unions.
So the money they save with tax breaks goes to Republican candidates to
buy them off. Gross generalizations are a cheap shot

In this case, DT's generalization is correct, but yours is not. Virtually
(if not entirely) all of the money contributed by unions goes to
Democratic party candidates. Corporations, on the other hand, give to
candidates of both parties. Perhaps you forgot the campaign finance data
from the 2008 election.

And unions most certainly extort their dues in California. My daughter, a
math teacher at a public school with students almost entirely from
disadvantaged families, is required to be a union member as a condition
of her employment. Her union dues pay for much more than collective
bargaining. A rather substantial portion goes to fund advocacy of
educational and economic policies with which she disagrees. I'm sure
she'd get plenty of opposition here for this observation, but she says
that the most gung-ho union members at her school are also the worst
teachers.

Have fun blasting away.

John
apogee

climber
Oct 20, 2011 - 12:49pm PT
John, that's a pretty standard return argument for you-
any time someone makes the 'corporations skew politics' argument,
you return with a 'Unions do it, too' response.

Both entities have waaaaay too much moneyed political influence.
Both are comprised of a bunch of individuals who already have a vote.
Why should they have more influence, just because they group together to create a tyranny of mass?
Gary

climber
Desolation Row, Calif.
Oct 20, 2011 - 12:55pm PT
And the teacher in John's example is part of a democratic organization. If she is displeased that they spend money looking out for her best interests, she can vote to oust the leadership in favor of one to her liking.

Can you do that in a corporation?
apogee

climber
Oct 20, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
Further, Repubs often lament the fact that union dues are directed at
influencing policy & laws in ways that the dues-payer may not support.

Well, buddy, the same thing happens in corporations.
Employees may work for a large mega-corp,
and not agree with the ways they influence politics.

Unions & corporations are not run by consensus or even democratically.
If you don't like the direction, sure,
you can always leave that corporation,
but you can leave that job & the union, too.
That's an unrealistic retort.

Edit: Funny our comments collided, Gary.
I would argue, though, that while there is a voting process in Unions,
the way they are organized in the first place,
making it almost impossible not to join them,
is pretty far from democracy.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 20, 2011 - 01:10pm PT
Gary,

You can always disinvest in a corporation. She can't disinvest in the union
without losing her job. If she were free to stay out of the union, and just pay the
cost of the union's collective bargaining, that would be different.

And apogee, you're ignoring the difference between unions, which spend all of their money on one party and,
in California, can make you join as a condition of employment, and corporations, that spend their money on both parties and don't force you
to own their stock as a condition of employment.

And frankly, I'm yet to be convinced that the high cost of modern campagning, and the consequent need
to raise money, is at the root of our problems. If we got more than sound bites, the extra speech
would be helpful. It's the fifteen second attention span of much of the electorate that gives us
such poor results.

John
apogee

climber
Oct 20, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
"You can always disinvest in a corporation."

That's as unrealistic an alternative as telling your daughter
she can always leave her job & career if she doesn't like the Union politics.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 20, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
Our relatively unique tradition of freedom of speech differs from that of Britain.

John
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 20, 2011 - 01:23pm PT
"You can always disinvest in a corporation."

That's as unrealistic an alternative as telling your daughter
she can always leave her job & career if she doesn't like the Union politics.

How is that? The disinvestment will cost a (usually modest) commission, but I always considered publicly-traded stock a liquid asset. You can get out of one stock and into another almost immediately (depending on how long it takes your broker to execute the trade).

Being a math teacher (as opposed to, say, a music teacher, like my younger daughter will be), she could probably find another job rather easily, but she likes dealing with kids of poor people more than dealing with kids of rich people, and locally, that puts you in an all-union shop. There's an enormous difference in time, money and effort between finding a non-union teching job in California and converting from one investment to another.

John
Silver

Big Wall climber
Nor Nev
Oct 20, 2011 - 01:23pm PT
Dr. F why is it you feel the need to always be right about everything? I agree with things you say here from time to time but for f*#ks sake realize your precious Dem's are the same f*#king douche bags that the repubs are with another name attached.

apogee

climber
Oct 20, 2011 - 01:29pm PT
John, from a conceptual point of view, there are far more similarities that unions & corporations have over politics than there are differences. Arguing that one is better than another is like two people arguing which type of chocolate tastes better (or worse). And yes, you can put down the chocolate- that is an option- but everyone knows putting down chocolate is not a choice.

Many would write your bias off as another capitalist Repug, but I don't get the sense that's the case. Why do you give corporations a pass, when they have as much (far more, really) undue influence than unions?
apogee

climber
Oct 20, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
"How is that?"

If one's 'investment' is related to their career, a career that just might be served out in connection with a corporation, or working with corporations, it's just unrealistic to say that you can just leave.

If your 'investment' is more literal, it's pretty hard these days to hold any kind of portfolio that isn't diversified with any number of corporations that have affected the political process in ways you don't agree with.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Oct 20, 2011 - 01:35pm PT
if criticism of barry is "racist", what is criticism of herman?

http://ideas.time.com/2011/10/20/is-herman-cain-the-most-unctuous-black-man-alive/



let's see, calling a black man "articulate" is hateful, but calling a black man "unctuous" is...what?


why is it ok for barry to tell black people to "stop complaining", but it's not ok for herman to tell black people the same thing?
Gary

climber
Desolation Row, Calif.
Oct 20, 2011 - 01:38pm PT
Britain has elections.

No, Britain has politics, we have elections. We get to choose between two factions of the Corporate Party: the far right wing or the right wing.

For those who say unions have an unfair influence on the political process, what significant gains have unions made in the last 40 years?
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Oct 20, 2011 - 03:49pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#221755
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