Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 08:36pm PT

The answer to your absurd question is that your 16 year old should get the opportunity to go to college in spite of her pregnancy especially once she realized how hard it is to be a parent and that her classmates should not have their hardships dismissed because of the naivety of their peer.

We agree. How do we make it happen?

And Eric, yes I've seen that video several times in several places. The reason I and so many others of my perspective assume that redistribution is the goal is that the only proposal I hear is just redistribution. "We aren't paid what we're worth" is merely saying "we should get more of what someone else has," is it not?

John
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
Well said HDJJ

But it's not just about getting an education and hitchhiking Europe
It's about getting a Job,
89.99% of the populace want a job, not a handout

We could create jobs tomorrow, there is only one thing holding us back

The Party of No,
No We Can't!

Wealth disparity??
Completely driven by Conservative policies lowering tax rates on the rich, loopholes, offshoring, carried interest, stock as pay, deregulating and defunding every protection put in place to stop the enforcements of our laws and common sense moral agreements.

It's a race to the bottom.
Even JE will agree to that statement
WBraun

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
Why should the rich, the kings, be taxed?

USA isn't a democrazy anymore, never really was.

The kings rule over the slaving servants.

Stupid Dr F still lives in his dream world with the stupid Norton ......
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
The talking duck is a slave to the stone and stupider than stupid...
WBraun

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
Another politard bites the dust ^^^^^^^
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
John posted
And Eric, yes I've seen that video several times in several places. The reason I and so many others of my perspective assume that redistribution is the goal is that the only proposal I hear is just redistribution. "We aren't paid what we're worth" is merely saying "we should get more of what someone else has," is it not?

Only because you are working form the assumption that those at the top are getting an increasingly larger share because they deserve it. That is the "job creator" fallacy that has broken our politics on this issue in America. If a corporate officer gets a $30k/year raise every year then they earned it but if some McDonalds employees have the gall to ask to be able to afford health insurance after having worked there for 10 years they are a bunch of entitled commie pricks who need a lecture about bootstraps.

We have an economic system currently rigged to reward investment, reward minimizing laborers' wages and focused on getting the largest investment return for shareholders instead of creating work environments that support families and communities while also turning profits. We are suggesting that maybe that formula be tweaked to ensure that all Americans actually have relatively equal opportunity to succeed based on their skills, personal attributes and willingness to work.

John, virtually all of the wage increases in the last 10 years have gone to the top few % while the cost of healthcare and education rapidly outpace inflation. Are you really suggesting that is a good way to be running our country?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:39pm PT
I've really enjoyed the discussion between John Eleazarian and High Desert D.J.

I think what's missing is the experience of people who produce in the face of The Grind. The Grind knows no right or wrong and is conservative and liberal.

The Grind understands only the value of money to pursue it's cause. The Grind uses people up through day and night constant toil to make a point and gain wealth in order to promote it's cause be it right or left.

The Grind is about suppression of freedom by indenturing the population through preying on weakness, by way of credit cards. (thank GOD I have a job...)

The Grind is about paying you as little as possible while making you believe it's the other guy who is just as f*#ked as you, think he's the reason you're f*#ked...

jghedge

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:14am PT
Wingnut Lunatic Book Publisher Pulls Benghazi "Eyewitness" Book From Stores; Official CBS Retraction Tonight

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/09/business/media/cbs-correspondent-apologizes-for-report-on-benghazi-attack.htm


As it prepared to broadcast a rare on-air correction Sunday for a now-discredited “60 Minutes” report, CBS News acknowledged on Friday that it had suffered a damaging blow to its credibility. Its top executive called the segment “as big a mistake as there has been” in the 45-year-old history of the celebrated news program.

The executive, Jeff Fager, conceded that CBS appeared to have been duped by the primary source for the report, a security official who told a national television audience a harrowing tale of the attack last year at the American diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya. On Thursday night it was disclosed that the official, Dylan Davies, had provided a completely different account in interviews with the F.B.I., in which he said he never made it to the mission that night.

After that revelation, CBS decided to take multiple actions Friday. It removed the report from the CBS News website, and the correspondent for the segment, Lara Logan, appeared on the CBS morning news show to apologize personally for the mistakes in the report. And the company’s publishing division, Simon & Schuster, said it was suspending publication of a book by Mr. Davies, in which he tells the same narrative he recounted on “60 Minutes.”

“It’s a black eye and it’s painful,” Mr. Fager said in a phone interview. He declined to say whether there would be negative consequences for any of the journalists involved.

As CBS was backtracking on its report, Threshold Books, an imprint of Simon & Schuster, said in a statement that it was recommending that booksellers remove Mr. Davies’s book from their shelves. “The Embassy House” was published Oct. 29, and more than 38,000 copies are in print.


Hahahahaha, as if the wingnut idiots they publish for care whether the pablum they're spoon-fed is true or not.




HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:31am PT
Simon and Schuster is not a "wingnut book publisher."
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:43am PT
"We aren't paid what we're worth" is merely saying "we should get more of what someone else has," is it not?


How different things would be if we lived in a democracy where employees of a company had a say in decisions made by that company.

 Should we give the executive staff a big raise and keep workers wages stagnant?

 Should we offshore our workers to increase our bottom line so we can give our executive staff big raises?

 Should we use chemicals known to cause cancer in our factories?

On and on. We do not live in a democracy where we workers have a say in how things are done. The whole system is set up to distribute wealth to the top %, while those who do the actual work get peanuts (if that).


John, to say that asking for a living wage is just trying to take what someone else has is a sickness. You should do your best to get well.
jghedge

climber
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:49am PT
"Simon and Schuster is not a "wingnut book publisher."

http://imprints.simonandschuster.biz/threshold


Threshold Editions is an imprint of Simon & Schuster that specializes in conservative non-fiction. Recent successes include #1 New York Times bestsellers Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin, An Inconvenient Book by Glenn Beck, and The Obama Nation by Jerome R. Corsi, Ph.D.

Authors include Glenn Beck, Karl Rove, Jerome R. Corsi, Mark R. Levin, David Kupelian, Lynne Cheney, Arthur B. Laffer, Mary Cheney, Jerry Doyle, Reid Buckley, Brian Jennings, George Melloan, Burton W. Folsom, and Stephen Moore.


Hahahaha, they've practically got the whack-job market cornered.


By the way, isn't "conservative non-fiction" a contradiction in terms?





Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2013 - 10:57am PT
JE is a perfect example of how it's possible to cherry pick your way to make anything justifiable. It's the way of the Conservative warrior.

People like him could easily justify slavery, torture, invading unarmed countries.

Just pick around the edges, throw in some straw men, use unfactual history, misleading quotes out of context, etc.

Being a Christian may be part of it, since it's so easy for them to believe anything, like the Bible being the word of God, it's also easy for them to believe anything they can make up in their make believe world, and what the Right Wing Media tells them.

Would JE agree that Republican polices created our great wealth disparity?
What does it bode for the future of America's economic health?
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Nov 9, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
"We aren't paid what we're worth" is merely saying "we should get more of what someone else has," is it not?

Others have said basically what I would say in response. But yes and no.


I have personal experience both in low-wage grunt jobs and in high level corporate positions where I was personally responsible for adding to the bottom line many many many times what I was ever paid.

At some point I realized that there was not that much difference between blue and white collar jobs. The very nature of capitalist enterprise creates a tendency toward wage slavery. Essentially it's a pyramid scheme where only the people at the top get the real value and the structure of the system make it impossible to contest that unless you are at the top, in which case you have no interest in doing so.

When the only value is profit there is no room to consider the health, well-being and personal satisfaction of the people who make that profit happen. It's only done if it increases the profit. If paying a worker a little more, or maybe not demanding they work 60+ hours a week merely goes to make them happier people, forget it.

Money is power. Power wants more money. Over time this inherently structures the system to favor money and power so it can accumulate more of both.

If you believe in values other than money or power -- and any christian theoretically does -- then you have to acknowledge that the current capitalist system is flawed in that it does not provide for human values like happiness, spiritual or intellectual fulfillment or even personal health.

John, I know that you value fairness. You probably value things other than money and power.

If we can agree that it is fair and just that human beings should have the opportunity to freely pursue personal happiness and health then I don't see how you can argue that anyone who says they are getting a raw deal is demanding wealth redistribution. The numbers speak for themselves. People are working longer and productivity has risen dramatically over the last few decades. Corporations are extracting greater value out of their employees while employee wages have not risen in step. At the "bottom" end, effective wages have fallen and more and more people are below the poverty line.

Do you really think this is fair? Is it the humane thing?

Do you think that only those individuals are to blame?


Edit: What always surprises me is that Jesus is essentially the ultimate socialist. He isn't concerned with money, but primarily the welfare of the poor.

Jesus said to him, "If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." Matthew 19:21
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Nov 9, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
The U.S. House just passed a bill called H.R. 992 — the Swaps Regulatory Improvement Act — that was literally written by mega-bank lobbyists. It repeals the laws passed in 2010 to prevent another meltdown like the one that crashed our economy in 2008. The repeal was cosponsored by a former Goldman Sachs executive and passed with bipartisan support from some of the House’s largest recipients of Wall Street cash.

While the Repubs are more disgusting on this bill... nearlt all voted for this bill... over 1/3rd of the Dems voted for it, too.

Kudos to everyone who voted against it. Sadly, their numbers are too low.
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Nov 9, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
How the Unholy Alliance Between the Christian Right and Wall Street Is 'Crucifying America'

By CJ Werleman



Atheist groups, associations, and networks have literally sprung up in every town and city in America. Million dollar social awareness campaigns have rolled across small towns and big cities throughout America. In major cities, you see billboards with messages like, “Are you Good Without God? Millions Are!” “Don’t Believe in God? You Are Not Alone.” Others say, “In the Beginning, Man Created God.” These campaigns have helped coerce millions of Americans out of the theological closet. They have helped many in-private atheists step out of the shadows. The trend is very much that Americans raised in Christian households are shunning the religion of their parents for any number of reasons: the advancement of human understanding; greater access to information; the scandals of the Catholic Church; and the over zealousness of the Christian Right.

Political scientists Robert Putman and David Campbell, and authors of American Grace, argue that the Christian Right’s politicization of faith in the 1990s turned younger, socially liberal Christians away from churches, even as conservatives became more zealous. “While the Republican base has become ever more committed to mixing religion and politics, the rest of the country has been moving in the opposite direction.”

When you add all these things together, it leads you to a dramatic yet never mentioned dynamic: atheists are the fastest growing minority in the U.S. today. More significantly, we make for being one of the most powerful voting blocs in the country, at least potentially. We now have the required critical mass to shape elections, laws, and leaders. Safety in numbers is growing into power in numbers. In 10, 20, 50 years, the Christian Right will hold little to no sway over the nation’s identity. From these facts, among others, we can boast that ideological victory is within sight.

Now for the bad news:

We are winning the wrong game!

We are losing the right game. We are winning the cultural war, but the Christian Right is winning in the race to control the levers of power. They hold the keys to our democracy, while we have clever bumper stickers, funny t-shirts, and books that deride virgin births and angry sky gods. The soldiers of God are playing a game that can only be described as Jedi Knight-ish. Meanwhile, we are being made to look juvenile, bellicose, and down right moronic. The Christian Right is ripping our arms off at the shoulder and then slapping us in the face with the soggy bits. It’s embarrassing, and if this were a football game the scoreboard would read: Christian right –120 versus free thinkers – 3. Someone invoke the mercy rule! Also, I hate football metaphors.

You see, all around this great country, atheists are meeting in cafes, living rooms and Holiday Inn conference rooms to meet, share donuts and talk about how we can remove “In God We Trust” from the dollar bill; and how best we deal with removing “One nation under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance, in an attempt to reverse the sneaky-handed 1954 bill pushed through congress in 1954 by Christian zealot President Eisenhower. We protest home school conventions; any display of the Ten Commandments; and there are even atheist groups who file lawsuits every winter in their respective cities to ensure nothing but the secular “meaning” of Christmas is promoted.

Look, all these actions are fine with me but, let’s be honest, they make us look like as#@&%es. And frankly, if you’re filing legal action to prevent others from declaring, “Merry Christmas”, then you most definitely are an as#@&%e!

What’s worse is that atheists are wasting far too much intellectual and emotional energy on battles that lack real political gain or consequence. In other words, we’re taking pot shots at an ideological enemy that’s out of range and forward marching in another direction, and where they’re dropping their ordinance is hurting us. Greatly!

While we are busy playing the role of the nation’s police force for political correctness, they are gerrymandering voting districts to ensure they regain and maintain control of the levers of congressional and gubernatorial power. While we chant, “Keep the Bible out of the classroom”, they are helping legislate voter ID laws that disenfranchise millions of black, Hispanic, and student voters. While we demand a removal of God from the Pledge of Allegiance, they are stacking the courts with their ideological judicial wingnuts. While we are correcting Christmas carolers with, “Happy Holidays”, they are mobilizing to ensure money buys them judges, congressmen and governors, which not only protects the interests of big corporations at the expense of the little guy, but will also protect the interests of the Christian Right – namely, putting an end to the gay, secular, liberal agenda, and, in turn, setting gender and racial equality back 50 years.

Poll after poll shows that a majority of Americans favor liberal policies, but our courts and legislatures are increasingly becoming controlled and driven by the Christian Right. Their victories are having a far more reaching impact on our lives and our secular democratic values than our small-minded wins to remove the 10 Commandments from some hic town’s courthouse.

The 2012 election was a rejection of the Ayn Rand, “F*#k you, I have mine” thinking that permeates the Republican base. Recall that moment during the 2012 GOP debates when the moderator asked the following hypothetical: “What should happen if a healthy 30-year-old man who can afford insurance chooses not to buy it and then becomes catastrophically ill and needs intensive care for six months?” In unison, the predominantly Tea Party (Christian Right) audience yelled, “Let him die!” Thankfully a majority of the American public spurned that callous thinking, as the national electorate went on to demonstrate that a majority of Americans see this country as a center-left country. Simply, we don’t want to be a country that says there’s legitimate rape and there’s illegitimate rape. There’s just rape! We don’t want to be a country that rejects science and facts. We want our kids to accept what 99.9 percent of the scientific community agrees to when it comes to evolution. We want our kids to accept climate change as fact, then fight to do something about it, so as to preserve their kids’ future. We don’t want our politicians to hold prayer sessions as the main means for fighting poverty. We don’t want our political leaders to believe poverty is caused by the individual’s lack of religious faith. We don’t want a country that demonizes the less fortunate. We want a country that judges a person by the content of their character, and not by the color of their skin. We want our laws to not only favor the interests of business but equally or more so favor our communities, our skies, our water, and our food. We want a representative democracy. We want “One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all” – not all of one kind, but all. These are the ideals that a majority of Americans want in this great nation today.

Well, that’s what we wanted, and that’s kind of what we were getting, to some degree, until something really bad happened on January 21, 2010. A date of infamy! For that was the day the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the billionaire Koch brothers over the Federal Election Commission. In that ruling, the highest court in the land ruled that money equals free speech, and corporations equal people. That was the moment that whatever chance we had of righting the wrongs that have led to growing social inequalities in this country was lost. That was the moment that all but guarantees a continuation of the shrinking of the middle class. That was the moment that presented billionaires and the wealthiest corporations an opportunity to partner with the Christian Right, so that a new era of pro-business and anti-government policies could be enacted in this country.

http://www.alternet.org/belief/atheists-are-winning-wrong-war-against-christian-right?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark
Pate

Trad climber
Nov 10, 2013 - 12:28am PT
i just got totally hooked up by Obamacare. it kicks ass.


just sayin'
jghedge

climber
Nov 10, 2013 - 09:05pm PT

60 Minutes Apologizes For Allowing Deranged, Lying Wingnut On Their Show; Hopefully Chris Mac Is Listening

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/10/60-minutes-apology-benghazi-lara-logan_n_4252253.html


"60 Minutes" issued a brief on-air apology and correction on Sunday for its botched and mishandled report on the Benghazi attacks, but gave few details about the failures that led to its retraction of a piece it had staunchly defended.

Speaking about Dylan Davies, the discredited man at the heart of her piece, correspondent Lara Logan told viewers, "We realized we had been misled, and it was a mistake to include him in our report. For that, we are very sorry."

The venerable program was forced into an embarrassing retreat after it had defended itself for a week about the reliability of Davies, a British security officer. On Thursday night, it emerged that Davies—who had already admitted to lying to a superior about his whereabouts on the night of the attack—had also told the FBI he had been nowhere near the American compound when it took place, a statement completely at odds with the detailed, harrowing tale he told "60 Minutes."

It was the second on-air apology delivered by Logan. On Friday, she went on television to say that she was "wrong" to have put Davies on air.

Predictably, her Sunday mea culpa offered little insight into why Davies was chosen as the key source for the report, and why "60 Minutes" had so fervently defended him, even amid mounting evidence of his unreliability. Also unmentioned was what role, if any, corporate ties played in placing Davies at the heart of the piece. A conservative imprint of Simon and Schuster, which is also owned by CBS, had published a book about Benghazi by Davies. That book has since been recalled.




Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Nov 10, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Dr. Cactus,

Set your sights on targeting the deservedly, unapologetic, ill informed.

Eleazarian has put himself on the line personally and intellectually without fail or fear.

Of all the conservatively minded posters on ST, John gives insight with mathematical precision. His opinions are quite liberal at heart concerning doing what's right but also have a lot to say about what the obligations for an individual entails.

Collectively yours...
Jim
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Nov 10, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
You want wages to reflect the amount of work?

Make all tax returns public.

Anybody that doesn't like the idea has something to hide.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Nov 10, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
F*#k that ^^^^^
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