Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Messages 47341 - 47360 of total 52606 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:49am PT
With 3 1/2 years and a $400 Million budget, there is no excuse for this kind of failure. Oh, well maybe one- it was undertaken in the public sector!

This is actually nothing..
It cost my hospital 30 million and a couple years just to implement a computer system for the hospital.
And there are always glitches when you go live.
If you work with computer systems and don't know this then you are incompetent.

400 million? I mean seriously - that's less than ones days killing in the sand over in Iraq.
I didn't hear you bitching then - incompetent fools..


The cost and income redistribution involved in this is an entirely different story.
This is turning out to be a large tax on the middle class or upper middle class.
I was reading Democratic Underground last night and folks who make a half decent living and are posting their cost increases are basically being attacked and told they have had it good for to long.

That is straight up pinko-commie sh#t..

It's a hard pill to swallow to hear somebody who chose pizza delivery, playing video games and smoking weed as a career tell us folks who work our asses off that we need to give back...lol

Not that I have any increases...I get heath care through my job.
But everything I'm seeing is telling me there are huge cost increases involved here for many people.
The large deductible are what's the killer- it's basically a hidden premium as anyone who actually uses health care, everyone, will have to pay out that money.

But I'm seeing lots of costs of 800 to 1000 a month.
And with all kinds of 50 percent copays, huge deductibles, etc.



Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:55am PT
So what happens to the climber who does not work?
Say I want to save money up and then take a year off and climb.
I have enough money to live cheap for a year.
Will this person have the IRS in their ass after a few months?
What if they want to go to Asia for three months.

You just can't cancel your insurance and come back anytime you want to use insurance.

So they end up in jail if they don't pay their premiums?
WBraun

climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:55am PT
Americans are sick.

They are unhealthy.

They are slowly dying from their own making of their over industrialized nightmare.

The karmic reaction is the health care nightmare to stay alive from our own stupidity ......
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:56am PT
The ACA is not a perfect solution it is just the best compromise possible at the time. The real issue is the greed and corruption inherent in a for profit corporate insurance racket. The ACA is a difficult step in the inevitable progression towards a single payer system.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:57am PT
Yes Riley on this we agree 100%.. (Write this on yer calendar lol!)

This new health care system seems bent on creating more working poor than ever. If you were a govt desiring total control of your peeps this is a great start.
WBraun

climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Fukushima will now kill you all with or without your health nightmare .....
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 2, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Braun...You working for Aflac or what...? Fukushima is going to cook your goose so stop with the quacking...
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Nov 2, 2013 - 10:33am PT
there is no provision in the ACA regarding jail or waterboarding, you are trolling eh, Riley?

regarding dirtbags, climbers or otherwise, because there income is so low - they would likely
qualify for Medicaid and pay virtually no monthly payment and just keep it until some day comes when they decide to no longer be a dirtbag and start making some money


you eluded the question
You get fined do you not?
You are forced to pay
What is the leverage used to force you to pay?
Not jail?
How about garnishment of wages?
What if you don't want to pay it and hide out in the woods - brought before the man and given prison time? This is what occurs with the IRS.

And you're not a dirt bag necessarily - you are making good money and then quit or take a leave of absence for 4 months. Or maybe you ramp down your business for 6 months
So can you jump back and forth between low income and high premiums?
Say I want to take 4 months off every 6 months and have my own business.
Do I now also have to save 1000 extra dollars a month to cover my health care as well as the basic living expenses?

Just trying to get a feel for this new reality.
This is unenforceable as there are so many people who will not comply, not pay or not give a sh#t. I know a lot about people who don't have insurance as they are pretty much what I have spent my life taking care of.
We will end up with a new class of criminals

This is far different from Canada.



We haven't even got into the employer stuff yet.
There is a huge absence of facts concerning this subject.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 10:35am PT
With 3 1/2 years and a $400 Million budget, there is no excuse for this kind of failure. Oh, well maybe one- it was undertaken in the public sector!


"Yeah the private sector gets it right every time" is what anyone who played an online game on launch day would tell you in opposite world. Meanwhile, in real life, TGT and friends are SO MAD at the government for having problems getting the website running that they SO WANTED to fail. "Someone must be held accountable for doing what I dreamed would happen!" they cry.


Werner declared
Americans are sick.

They are unhealthy.

They are slowly dying from their own making of their over industrialized nightmare.

The karmic reaction is the health care nightmare to stay alive from our own stupidity ......

It's true! In the pre-industrialized world everyone lived to be 100, had perfect teeth, shat organic power bars and climbed 5.13.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 2, 2013 - 10:40am PT
Guess thats why they need the new army of IRS tax collectors.


edit: Since the gubbmint has been working on that website for some three years, i guess the voting for the ACA was just a dog and pony show for us people? And if that is the case, they had all the time in the world to have things "working"..
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Nov 2, 2013 - 11:28am PT
RJ wrote:
They also should have fired Bush for allowing the 9/11 attacks to take place on American soil...Think of the money we could have spent on national health care if we hadn't invaded Iraq to get those saudi terrorists....

didn't they hit the trade center while Clinton was in office?

sounds to me like another liberal cry'n again
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Nov 2, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Riley posted
you eluded the question
You get fined do you not?
You are forced to pay
What is the leverage used to force you to pay?
Not jail?
How about garnishment of wages?
What if you don't want to pay it and hide out in the woods - brought before the man and given prison time? This is what occurs with the IRS.

well Riley, since you did not address your comments to me I don't see how I eluded anything.

You are a very smart guy, you are quite capable of reading for yourself even a short summary of the ACA

here is a real great summary Riley
http://images.politico.com/global/2013/09/27/politico_understanding_obamacare_guide.html

now to a few of your questions: no, no one has their wages garnished and yes go ahead and hide in the woods so when and not if you someday go to the emergency room without insurance you can rest assured that good people like Riley will pay your medical bills with the taxes he pays and you can feel good about "sticking it to the man" and "taking my chances"

The employer mandate? no, it is quite clear how it works, read the ACA link I posted for you to get briefed on it
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Nov 2, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
This new health care system seems bent on creating more working poor than ever. If you were a govt desiring total control of your peeps this is a great start.


Ron, we've both said we are poor. I can now get coverage whereas before I couldn't afford a damned thing.

Is that different for you over in Nevader?

How does the ACA affect you personally?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 2, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Personally, Yes it would help me afford healthcare insurance, but i wont be able to afford the deductibles should anything happen.


So Yes as for me it might be a benefit in that respect. BUT to my many customers that have steadily been assaulted in their economy's from downsizing, furloughs, and even being reduced to part time or layed off, coupled with those folks having rather astronomical health care insurance rates will lead to businesses like my blowing away in the winds. Like many already have. So while i might have good health care rates, i might just also be homeless and wondering where the roof went.


apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
Ron, eventually you are likely to need significant medical care, and even if you are steadfast in not seeking it up to that point, it will probably happen anyway (to some degree).

Without medical insurance, you may have been paying for what you can afford as you go, while at the same time rolling the dice (or worse yet, being willfully oblivious) that you won't need that care at some point.

And who will pay for that day? US Taxpayers.

Personal responsibility, Ron. If you talk it, you gotta walk it.
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Nov 2, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
Riley, you really are not thinking this through. If you feel there is an absence of facts, maybe you should take the time to actually read this stuff... there is a boatload of relatively easily digested info. I think I spent less than an hour to get a good handle on some of the questions you seem confused about.

And you're not a dirt bag necessarily - you are making good money and then quit or take a leave of absence for 4 months. Or maybe you ramp down your business for 6 months
So can you jump back and forth between low income and high premiums?
Say I want to take 4 months off every 6 months and have my own business.
Do I now also have to save 1000 extra dollars a month to cover my health care as well as the basic living expenses?



Essentially the government is subsidizing coverage below certain maximum income levels. If you choose to not work and thus make less money you may qualify for some amount of subsidy. If not, that is still your choice to not earn more money.

Remember, if you are not getting a subsidy it's not like your premium is based on income level. And in theory at that point you can afford it. This is up to 400% of the federal poverty level and you will get the tax credit in advance, so it's not like you are paying out of pocket up front. If you make $45k as an individual, you will still get some help.

Do I think this is a tremendously stupid idea? Absolutely! As you've said, profit has no place in healthcare. We should have gone for single payer and been done with it instead of massively adding to the complexity, confusion, and cost.


In terms of enforcement, if you are not required to file a tax return, you will not have to pay a fine. Period.

If you skip out on insurance and are subject to a fine, there are no provisions for the IRS to enforce payment beyond deducting it from any return you might otherwise get.

I guess I need to repeat this: There is no possibility of criminal charges, leins on property or extra financial penalties if you refuse to pay.

Do really people think the government is going to throw people in jail for not getting health insurance?



ALL OF YOU have a responsibility to be informed. Stop bullshetting around and spewing such a giant load of half-assed guesses and ill-considered questions.

Do make me google that for you!


Edit: So Ron, essentially yes it's beneficial to you but you might know somebody at some point who may be adversely affected in vague and uncertain ways that you are unable to articulate at this time.

That's just fookin brilliant man!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 2, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Apogee, first, explain to me how tax payers pay for hosptitals taking care of bills incurred to them. If someone uses the ER for treatment and doesnt pay their bill it is the hospitals that absorb that cost.


As for TAX PAYERS paying, what is the difference if i get some major subsidy - which the TAX PAYERS are also paying..
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
"If someone uses the ER for treatment and doesnt pay their bill it is the hospitals that absorb that cost."

Sooooo....how do you think those hospitals recoup the losses they sustain when they treat people who can't pay, Ron?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 2, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
Same way they treat the countless medicaid and medicare patients Apogee. With extortion rate prices.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
Do you think that providing care to patients who can't pay for it has any impact on creating 'extortion rates'?
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