Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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jammer

climber
Aug 8, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
I have personally studied history, and have a minor in philosophy...
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Aug 8, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
And a sense of humour ! Good posts, man.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 8, 2014 - 05:54pm PT
Adherence to the Law is the only thing that keeps a society of feuding political parties from degenerating into a third-world system of coups and counter-coups.

If the party I oppose shows perfect contempt for following the law when it sees a political advantage in doing so, why should I not support the selfsame law-breaking when the party I support decides it might find some advantage in doing so?

The government's basis for rule over the citizens is based on two things:

1. Sheer naked coercive power.

And:

2. Moral authority, and the notion that, while a citizen might not like the particular government serving at any particular time, that citizen values something more eternal than the temporary political circumstances of a four year period of time.

Namely, the idea that it is best for everyone to follow the law, because it's more important to support a stable government without turmoil and violence than to violate the law to win on any immediate, ephemeral political point.

Note that it is far better for any society that the government's power rests more on the second pillar than on the first. Because so long as that pillar, of moral authority, of general fairness, of a general sense that the longterm interests of America are better served by adherence to government than to rebellion against it, the government will rarely, if ever, have to resort to the ultimate pillar of authority, which is physical, violent coercion.

For someone who claims to be a "Constitutional Professor" -- actually a short-term guest lecturer -- this Obama character sure doesn't seem to have thought very hard about the importance of constitutional, law-abiding government.

This country has lived with only one Civil War in its 230 year history. That isn't just due to luck. It's due to governments usually showing a recognition that the continuation of the American Democracy was more important than any short-term political fight.

Nixon, for example, did (I'm told) briefly ask Alexander Haig if there was any possibility of avoiding impeachment by declaring martial law and simply calling the Army to his defense.

What did Haig tell him? Something like, "No, Mr. President."

Nixon's short-term interests might have been served by such a maneuver -- but certainly not the American democratic-republican tradition itself.

Why have those many fledgling democracies in Latin America -- many with constitutions closely patterned after the American one -- devolve into juntas within a few years?

Was it because they were less intelligent or more corrupt than Americans?

I don't believe that. Certainly no progressive in good standing can explain this by suggesting race or culture doomed the Latin American democracies to turn into tyrannies in short order.

So what did?

Well, probably because one party came into power and decided that their political goals were too important to be endangered by adhering to a trivial things like "transparency," "fairness," or even the letter of the law.

Having done so, did they really expect the citizens, or their political rivals, to obey the law themselves?

The law works when people see an inherent value of the law beyond their short-term interests.

When they see other people violating the law, they decide that only a Chump would obey the law, and they begin violating the law as well.

Is this what this Administration wants?

Is it even capable of the low level of thinking to see how deeply corrosive and dangerous that casual lawbreaking by the state can be?

As the Obama Administration continues to engage in casual, contemptuous law-breaking itself, do they ever stop to consider the harm they're doing to the oldest, longest-lived republican democracy in the world?

Do they even trouble themselves to wonder?

Or is everything justified by winning the day's Twitter war?

As the Philosopher of Party so nobly put it:

When we truly believe that some people are monsters, that they fundamentally are less human than we are, and that they deserve to have less than we do, we ourselves become the monsters...

Who are the monsters here? The Republicans, who lawfully demand the evidence in order to mount legal criticism against this Administration (and external criticism is absolutely vital to the system), or the Democrats and their bureaucratic Palace Guard who illegally refuse to do so?

Who are the ones merely threatening -- justifiably -- Obama's short-term political position, and who are the ones actually threatening the very foundations of our long-lived constitutional republic?

A Constitution is born of words, but it lives in deeds.

Or, as is usually the case, it dies.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 03:20am PT
Jingy (not jammer, the thin skinned guy) posted
We all agree that this is not the function of government.... thus, pointing out how ineffectual the republicans are and why... Is a bad thing?

Because the people who voted them in don't agree with you? You're insisting that they are incompetent when they are not. They are horribly competent at trashing the government which their constituency thinks is pretty cool. It's like calling El Cap rappellers the most incompetent climbers to ever touch the Big Stone. You're kind of right but you're also missing the point. Attacking hard right Republicans for being ineffective at something they are not actually trying to do is meaningless. It's much more accurate and effective to point out that they have no interest in governing, are actively working against the best interests of the country in the pursuit of ideologic principle and that their rhetoric and their politics consistently contradict each other which shows just how inauthentic they are. It's pathetic and it's consistently frustrating that people fall for it. A perfect example is "Obama is running the country like an emperor" but at the same time "Obama is totally unwilling to exercise the power he has to stop illegal immigration." Meanwhile he's deported more people than basically any other President ever.


I keep railing against the justice system, and especially the death penalty, because it is horribly racist in implementation and needs major reform. I had thought that pointing out how demonstrably biased and unAmerican it is would convince people to take another look at it. It turns out I've been doing it wrong:

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/7/5978551/study-racism-criminal-justice-stop-and-frisk-reform-support?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=voxdotcom&utm_content=thursday

Telling white people the criminal justice system is racist makes them like it more

America's criminal justice system disproportionately hurts people of color, particularly black and Hispanic men. Supporters of criminal-justice reform tend to point to that disparity as a good reason to change the system.

But as reforms move from proposals to actual bills, the key question is how to persuade the general public that change is needed. A new study suggests that highlighting racism in the criminal justice system is not the answer, and in fact pushes white voters in the opposite direction. Even when whites believe the current laws are too harsh, they're less likely to support changing the law if they're reminded that the current prison population is disproportionately black.

What the study found

The study, which was conducted by Rebecca Hetey and Jennifer Eberhardt of Stanford University and published in Psychological Science, consisted of two experiments.

The first experiment was conducted in San Francisco in 2012, when the state of California was considering a reform to its "three-strikes" law. Researchers showed white commuters a short video that featured a series of inmate mugshots. One version of the video reflected the total prison population: 25-percent black. The other reflected the population imprisoned under the three-strikes law: 45-percent black.

Both groups agreed that the three-strikes law was too harsh. But if the video they'd seen had more black inmates in it, they were less likely to agree to sign a petition to change it. More than half of the first group signed the petition; only a quarter of the second group did.

In other words, according to the researchers, "the blacker the prison population, the less willing registered voters were to take steps to reduce the severity of a law they acknowledged to be overly harsh."

The second experiment involved asking white New Yorkers about the stop-and-frisk program — after telling some of them that the New York state prison population was 40 percent black, and the rest that New York City's prison population was 60 percent black. Both groups agreed that stop-and-frisk was punitive. But again, the group that heard the 60-percent statistic was substantially less likely to want to sign a petition to end stop-and-frisk.

Welp.

*edit* corrected the quote attributed to jammer to its actual author, Jingy.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 03:43am PT
As all of you know, Democrats are the only ones who have been talking about impeachment (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2014/08/04/democrats_only_hope_is_hyping_fake_impeachment); so just as a reminder, August 23rd marks the start of National Impeach Obama Week which is obviously just a false flag operation run by Democrats.

http://impeachobamaweek.net/

First comment on the site:

This nation should have known not to elect a president that can’t produce a legal birth certificate & Obama wouldn’t salute a soldier he treated him like trash!!!

Get out there and impeach, you Democrats!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 04:58am PT
So, Tennessee's Democratic nominee for Governor (there are no barriers to entry and essentially nobody else ran) writes real good.




A full compilation of his letters can be seen here: http://blountdems.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Charlie-Brown.pdf

They are worth reading.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Aug 9, 2014 - 07:54am PT
Tennessee is not the place I'd choose as a hotbed of intelligence.


How about straight right wing propaganda


Repubs are bad people.
jammer

climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 10:11am PT
HighdesertDJ, nice job mis-attributing a quote to me. Solid. Real good way to earn respect...outright attack someone for no reason...nice...

sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Aug 9, 2014 - 10:13am PT
What the f*#k is that shitbag prattling on about? ^^^^


edit: not jammer
locker

climber
STFU n00b!!!
Aug 9, 2014 - 10:19am PT


Credit: locker
...

Norton

Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
Aug 9, 2014 - 10:42am PT

where is that invertebrate?

he'll be by later, Norton
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 11:44am PT
jammer posted
HighdesertDJ, nice job mis-attributing a quote to me. Solid. Real good way to earn respect...outright attack someone for no reason...nice...

If you think that was an attack you have thinner skin than anyone on Earth and have no business talking politics.
jammer

climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 11:59am PT
HDDJ, it was an attack. You literally misquoted me, then said that the person making that statement is an ignorant fool and you proposed a supposedly better strategy which is supposedly lost on me. This despite me having wrote this on the previous page:

Also, when corporations pay taxes in foreign countries, they pay those taxes to the countries government. Only by the proven-to-be-invalid trickle-down-economic theory do you have any kind of argument that that money goes anywhere besides the government, so try and provide an argument there or just shut up. The American tax system is then required to make up the difference out of everyday Americans pockets, so they end up paying more than their fair share of taxes (and providing idiotic republicans and their values duped voters with issues to campaign and get re-relected on, so they can give more money away to foreign governments, providing a yet stronger reason to be re-elected by their values-duped voters...), and the person who gets the money at the end of a long food chain is a foreign government.

No hard feelings, I just wish you would not be so reactionary to my posts. This was not the first time :).

I would also add that the person who actually made the quote also constantly points out the hypocrisy of republicans in the way that you approve...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
Jammer, I made a calm, reasoned and well explained rebuttal to what Jingy's post and accidentally typed the oh-so-different name "jammer" by mistake. If you seriously read that and thought "HE'S ATTACKING ME OH GOD" you are a little tightly wound and need to calm down. I made neither of the insults that you are attributing to me and do not think Jingy is ignorant, I simply disagreed with his post and explained why. If you fear people disagreeing with you stop posting in a political argument thread.
jammer

climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
Just calm down...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
Are you attacking me?
jammer

climber
Aug 9, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
No, but I'm LOOKIN at you...FOOL...
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 9, 2014 - 02:35pm PT
Norton

Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
Aug 9, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
post, run, and hide, TeaGeeTea

coward

photo not found
Missing photo ID#372178
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 9, 2014 - 02:56pm PT
Posting vacuous cartoons. So compelling...
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