Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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dirtbag

climber
Jul 16, 2014 - 07:49am PT
Sure, then let's follow it with a reasonable discussion of nazi heritage.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 16, 2014 - 07:53am PT
John, you have set up a false equivalence, without looking at the other side.

For example:

Who pays how much of John E's income tax? Do his kids not get as many toys? Not get to go to private schools? Does his wife not get those extra shoes? Is not your tax responsibility not passed on to "others"?

Ken, If I take that argument to its conclusion, we should have no talk about "fairness" in taxes because we don't know how much anybody pays. Dave's explained it better than I have. I'm rather surprised that posters are showing such apparent difficulty with the concept that all tax incidence ultimately falls on individuals.

John
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 16, 2014 - 07:58am PT
If there is that hell you worship I hope Robert E Lee is roasting there, right next to Sherman and Grant and Nathan Bedford Forest, the father of the Ku Klux Klan.

My best friend (other than my wife) got a book entitled How to Speak Southern, or something like that, when his daughter decided to go to Auburn on a swimming scholarship. After definitions such as "'Ah' -- the personal pronoun, such as 'Ah am going to bed.'" or "'Etlanta' -- the capital of Georgia.'"

Then there's "'Hale' -- where General Sherman is for what he did to Etlanta.'"

John
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 16, 2014 - 08:03am PT
Dude....

'Ah am going to bed.'" or "'Etlanta' -- the capital of Georgia.'"

Then there's "'Hale' -- where General Sherman is for what he did to Etlanta.'"

that was painful. Please don't do that again.

Lemme show you how its done, though you really have to hear it:

Ahm goin ta bed.

AT-lanta

Hyel No! (or naw, depending on region)

DMT

Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 16, 2014 - 08:09am PT




You're welcome!
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 16, 2014 - 08:13am PT
War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
--
William Tecumseh Sherman
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 16, 2014 - 08:26am PT
People put money into corporations, people take money out.

Investments, dividends, taxes, purchases, salaries, whatever.

In the end it all comes from and goes to people.

Every decision about what happens is made by a person.

Any benefit, harm, reward, or injustice from the activities of a corporation affects a person.

Corporations are people, my friend.

Dave, you make a good point that corporations are run by people. Nothing else.

Any benefit, harm, reward, or injustice from the activities of a corporation affects a person.

This is not true. Harm done by a corporation might affect people, but the corporation protects those who run it from any repercussion, you cannot put a corporation in jail. The logic is totally flawed.



Richard Wolff has an interesting take on "democracy" and capitalism. Average folk spend the lion's share of their lives working for corporations, but they have zero say in how that corporation behaves, where it puts its profits, and what and where it produces. Says Wolff, business, and the world, would be better off if these corporations were democracies in that those who work there should have a say of what they produce, where and how they produce it.

Capitalism it not working, look around you and you know this is true. Time to have a real discussion about what economic system will work in a sustainable world.

That is, if people really want to live on a planet that thrives.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jul 16, 2014 - 08:33am PT
Yes, the laws have to change so that individuals can be held accountable for the actions of corporations.

We are in violent agreement there. Corporate execs should go to jail of they make criminal decisions or even tolerate them in their organization.

It's the corporate tax thing that people get wrong.

You can't "hurt" a corporation by taxing it any more than you can hurt a corporation by convicting it of a crime.

Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 16, 2014 - 08:42am PT
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.

Jul 16, 2014 - 08:13am PT
War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
--
William Tecumseh Sherman

Everyone knows about Sherman burning Atlanta and his March to The Sea. Few people know his negotiated Confederate surrender. It was generous to The South, which was consistent with Lincoln's stated wishes. But Lincoln had just been shot, so the leadership in DC refused to accept the agreement.

Many historians believe Sherman's terms would have allowed the South to save face and be less bitter over losing the war. This would have created a better environment for mending relationships between the North and the South. Instead, we got Reconstruction, which involved a large degree of payback and abuse of power.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 16, 2014 - 08:45am PT
Corporate execs should go to jail of they make criminal decisions or even tolerate them in their organization.

+1


Which brings up a digression, but similar in thought:


On Capital Punishment: Judges who hand down the sentence should be on the hook for another's death. Meaning the judge should be held accountable in the case evidence comes up that exonerates someone they sentenced to death, and those judges should face capital charges.

If this were the case, you'd certainly see fewer wrong death sentences.

Much like if exec's were held accountable, you'd see fewer corporate wrong-doings (in theory at least).
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 16, 2014 - 08:45am PT
Instead, we got Reconstruction.

You weren't around.

DMT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 16, 2014 - 08:48am PT
Sketch posted
In total, less than one third of those polled had a negative reaction. The majority were indifferent about it.


You forgot to mention that only 9% of Americans had a positive view of the confederate flag.

http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/positive-reaction-to-the-confederate-flag/

You also forgot to mention that the question was about the flag itself, not people's assumptions or opinions of people who display the flag. You especially forgot to ask what the opinion was of the 30% who had a negative opinion of the confederate flag of the 9% who had a positive view.

I personally don't care about the flag that much, probably because of the Dukes of Hazard tv show when I was a kid. That being said, I have a rather strong opinion of people who put the confederate flag on their car or wave it around at rallies yelling about how American they are. Similarly, I grew up being a fan of the Washington Redskins because my dad was and he bought me a Redskins jacket as a kid. The idea of the Redskins evokes positive personal memories of connectedness with my father. Several years ago it became evident to me that this name was an appalling anachronism of an attitude that I strongly oppose in this country and while I still think fondly of my Redskins jacket from when I was 4, I find the insistence that the name/logo not be changed to be abhorrent.

Context is rather important.

Sketch continued
Many historians believe Sherman's terms would have allowed the South to save face and be less bitter over losing the war. This would have created a better environment for mending relationships between the North and the South. Instead, we got Reconstruction.

You know what would have saved a lot of face and a lot of lives? Simply giving up slavery.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 16, 2014 - 09:07am PT
Sketch...what is your point with your survey? We all know what the flag stands for and what people associate with it.

You are hopeless.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 16, 2014 - 09:09am PT
K-man wrote: Capitalism it not working, look around you and you know this is true. Time to have a real discussion about what economic system will work in a sustainable world.

Why are people so scared to admit this?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 16, 2014 - 09:09am PT
I had to step over this:



to get to


Oi vey! The things we do for love. Barney would understand...

Don't Tread On Me!

Heehee.

DMT
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 16, 2014 - 09:16am PT
We are in violent agreement there. Corporate execs should go to jail of they make criminal decisions or even tolerate them in their organization.

I doubt that there is much disagreement about that.

K-man, all you demonstrate is that capitalism is imperfect. If we want a serious discussion of comparative economic systems, it's OK to measure each against perfection, but it's not OK to measure one against perfection, and conclude that an alternative is better.

John
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 16, 2014 - 09:33am PT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber

Jul 16, 2014 - 08:48am PT

You forgot to mention that only 9% of Americans had a positive view of the confederate flag.
I didn't forget anything.

I noted that the negative reaction was higher than the positive reaction.

You also forgot to mention that the question was about the flag itself, not people's assumptions or opinions of people who display the flag.

What are you talking about?

The question was: Your reaction when you see a Confederate flag displayed?

The answers aren't opinions?

Seems like faux outrage.

You especially forgot to ask what the opinion was of the 30% who had a negative opinion of the confederate flag of the 9% who had a positive view.

More faux outage.

My point was that most people(70%), including most Blacks and most Democrats do not have a problem with the Confederate flag being displayed.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 16, 2014 - 09:38am PT
I'm indifferent to confederate flag displays. So I guess I fall into your sweet spot group, sketch. Its a factor of my youth, as is the CDB.

That in no way diminishes my opinion the display of a confederate flag is a racist display. But having come of age in the cracker south, I know there are many battles a single person just can't win.

An awful lot of people who display that flag also use the word nigger in every day language. Stand by them then the sh#t will splat on your pants too.

Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 16, 2014 - 09:39am PT
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM

Jul 16, 2014 - 09:07am PT
Sketch...what is your point with your survey? We all know what the flag stands for and what people associate with it.

You mean what it stands for to less than 1/3rd of Americans.

I'm just wondering why it's such a big deal to a bunch of white boys, who (for the most part) have little to do with any African American community.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 16, 2014 - 09:40am PT
I'm just wondering why it's such a big deal to a bunch of white boys, who (for the most part) have little to do with any African American community.

I'm wondering the same about you....

DMT
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