Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jul 15, 2014 - 05:03pm PT
I always thought Republicans were the Party of personal responsibility?

That's as nutty as thinking Republicans are the party of fiscal responsibility.

Curt
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jul 15, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
Corporations are people

... but a corporation is not a person.

Limited liability is supposed to be about financial risk. It is sad that it has come to apply to accountability from criminal actions.

People should be held accountable for a corporation's criminal actions.

Just as it is ultimately people that bear the cost of corporate taxes.



It's easy to cry "tax the corporation" without understanding which people actually bear the cost.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 15, 2014 - 05:44pm PT
Dave wrote: It's easy to cry "tax the corporation" without understanding which people actually bear the cost.


We know who bears the cost...Don't they usually pass on the "cost" of those taxes to employees or the public?


While they...http://qz.com/192725/what-another-record-year-of-corporate-profits-means-for-the-us-economy/
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 15, 2014 - 05:58pm PT
Dave posted
People should be held accountable for a corporation's criminal actions.

Just as it is ultimately people that bear the cost of corporate taxes.

They should but they aren't.
jammer

climber
Jul 15, 2014 - 06:41pm PT
Because questions of wealth, poverty and fairness have meaning only in the individual context, and no one to date has been able to answer the questions of how much of Chevron's income tax gets paid by which individuals. I realize those on the left will revel in showing that corporations and individuals differ, but recent Supreme Court jurisprudence recognizes that corporate activity is simply activity of aggregations of individuals.

John, has this had any effect on when a corporation gets sued? Are the people who constitute the aggregate of the corporation now all held accountable for the wrongdoing? It seems to me that, according to SCOTUS, corporations are people in so far as they have "individual" investment rights in order to express their free speech as individuals through investing in certain politicians in order to have them set policy that is best for business, but the supreme courts decision seems to end there. It was afterall a "conservative" decision, and therefore written with a "narrow scope."

If I am wrong about this please tell me specifically how.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 15, 2014 - 07:34pm PT
Corporations are much like the holy trinity...Nobody really knows if they are human or plain Gods...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 15, 2014 - 07:45pm PT
Who pays how much of Chevron's corporate income tax? Who would receive how much of a windfall if we eliminated corporate income tax? Do tell.


John, you have set up a false equivalence, without looking at the other side.

For example:

Who pays how much of John E's income tax? Do his kids not get as many toys? Not get to go to private schools? Does his wife not get those extra shoes? Is not your tax responsibility not passed on to "others"?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 15, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jul 15, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
Who pays how much of John E's income tax? Do his kids not get as many toys? Not get to go to private schools? Does his wife not get those extra shoes? Is not your tax responsibility not passed on to "others"?

Why all the convoluted logic?

If we want wealthy people to pay more taxes (and I think that they should) then we should pass laws that require wealthy people to pay more taxes.

Taxing corporations is a roundabout way to accomplish something that can be done in a much more straightforward way. And it's rife with unintended consequences.

Tax corporations so that they have fewer profits so that they pay fewer dividends so that corporate owners have less money?

Congratulations, you just took billions out of the pension funds for teachers.

Corporations aren't the bad guys. Because corporations aren't guys. It's the people that run them them that are often bad.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 16, 2014 - 06:33am PT
Dave, your logic is no less convoluted. There are advantages and disadvantages to doing it either way. I have no problem with taxing corporations and the people that run it both since they both enjoy protection under the law and services provided by our citizens. There are indirect consequences from doing both things and taxing those that run corporations is no more a "direct" way of doing than than any other.


In other convoluted news, the Federal Court this week required that Texas be more racist.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20140714-group-wins-case-to-sell-confederate-license-plates-in-texas.ece

AUSTIN — A "Southern heritage" [quotes are mine - HDDJ] group defeated Texas on Monday, celebrating a court decision expected to force Texas to issue license plates adorned with the Confederate battle flag.

A federal appeals panel ruled 2-1 that the Department of Motor Vehicles had violated the Sons of Confederate Veterans’ free speech rights and engaged in “viewpoint discrimination” when it rejected its specialty plate in 2011.

The judgment rekindled a loud debate among those who say the symbol honors Confederate heritage and others who see it as racially offensive and hurtful.

An attorney for the Texas chapter, John McConnell, said the ruling reaffirms that “the government cannot step into an issue and silence one side while endorsing the viewpoint of the other side.”
dirtbag

climber
Jul 16, 2014 - 06:36am PT
Confederate heritage

LOL.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 16, 2014 - 06:37am PT
I'm gonna write something uncomfortable here...

but considering the confederate flag Texas plate? I hope the thousands of Jewish folk who have settled in Dallas in recent years pay close attention to the real Heart of Texas. Its as rotten as those 'men' toting rifles into Starbucks.

DMT
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 16, 2014 - 06:45am PT
In Texas' defense, the ruling comes because the state was fighting the plate which I found surprising. I'm assumed Rick Perry would have one hanging off either side of his smart guy glasses.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 16, 2014 - 06:49am PT
OK, good point. Maybe the state will appeal or the legislature will see fit to tighten the special-plate law.

DMT
dirtbag

climber
Jul 16, 2014 - 06:58am PT
The truth hurts.

“There’s a certain level of vehemence, it seems to me, that’s directed at me, directed at the president,” Attorney General Holder told ABC. “You know, people talking about taking their country back.... There’s a certain racial component to this for some people. I don’t think this is the thing that is a main driver, but for some there’s a racial animus.”

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-race-why-eric-holders-words-stirred-anger-171653006.html

Funny how conservatives think all this sh#t magically went away 50 years ago.


Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 16, 2014 - 07:16am PT
A few years ago, Pew did a poll on public attitudes on the Confederate flag being displayed. Among Blacks, non-Southerners, Democrats and college graduates... basically every sub-group they looked at, the majority did not have a negative reaction to Confederate flags. With all groups, the percentage of negative reactions was higher than positive reactions. But none scored a negative reaction of at least 50 percent. In total, less than one third of those polled had a negative reaction. The majority were indifferent about it.

Around here, it seems that anyone siding with the majority (including the majority of Blacks and Democrats) gets branded a racist assh0le.

What's that about?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 16, 2014 - 07:21am PT
Oh sketch, you're hopeless. A majority of Germans thought the Jewish pogroms were a-ok too. Tyranny of the masses is still tyranny.

The relic of the Confederate south is a racist flag. Defend it if you must, their sh#t splashes on your boots too.
Enjoy!

I grew up in the south. I am glad to be untainted by that confederate pride bullsh#t. They south had no honor and they got the sh#t kicked out of them. Deservedly. If there is that hell you worship I hope Robert E Lee is roasting there, right next to Sherman and Grant and Nathan Bedford Forest, the father of the Ku Klux Klan.

DMT
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jul 16, 2014 - 07:25am PT
I was with my nine year old the other day and we pulled up behind a rig with a confederate flag sticker. He asked me why in the world would anyone have that on their truck. I didn't know he knew anything about slavery or the civil war. I think most people just know it's a racist douchebag symbol.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jul 16, 2014 - 07:45am PT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan

Jul 16, 2014 - 07:21am PT
Oh sketch, you're hopeless. A majority of Germans thought the Jewish pogroms were a-ok too. Tyranny of the masses is still tyranny.

The relic of the Confederate south is a racist flag. Defend it if you must, their sh#t splashes on your boots too.
Enjoy!

I grew up in the south. I am glad to be untainted by that confederate pride bullsh#t. They south had no honor and they got the sh#t kicked out of them. Deservedly. If there is that hell you worship I hope Robert E Lee is roasting there, right next to Sherman and Grant and Nathan Bedford Forest, the father of the Ku Klux Klan.

DMT

Why can't you guys have a reasonable discussion on this subject?

Jewish pogroms? Really?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 16, 2014 - 07:48am PT
You make the claim that might makes right.

I reject that claim.

Argue away....

DMT
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