Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 16, 2013 - 09:56am PT
pffff im tawkin Choctaw justice here my friend.. At least i didnt say tie them down to the dirt and cut on them for the next week while they die an agonizing slow, painful, bug biting/eating death like my traditional ancestors.
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jun 16, 2013 - 10:22am PT
the ones who had no problem killing women and children and poisoning wells and burning crops and all that which goes with driving indians off their land?
jghedge

climber
Jun 16, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
Graham: Repub Party In "Demographic Death Spiral"

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/sen-lindsey-graham-on-nbc-gop-in-demographic-death-spiral-must-pass-immigration-reform/


"“If we don’t pass immigration reform,” Graham said, “if we don’t get it off the table in a reasonable, practical way, it doesn’t matter who you run in 2016. We’re in a demographic death spiral as a party, and the only way to get back in the good graces with the Hispanic community, in my view, is to pass comprehensive immigration reform. If you don’t do that, it really doesn’t matter who we run in my view.”


Except that, of course, to complete Graham's statement, one needs to note that if congressional repubs pass immigration reform, it will only create millions of new dem voters, while also initiating a mass exodus among the wingnut base to the Tea Party.

In other words, Graham is merely stating that repubs prefer a slow, painful, lingering political suicide, instead of a quick and easy, but no less inevitable, end.


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 16, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
Yeah Norton, some will sing the praise of the current admin all the way to jail..


And deservedly so.

Obama has now more than proven himself to be a darker version of GWBUSH.. A veritable copy cat of every policy but forth from that admin. Ohw-- yeah yur gonna say "obamacare" which is already in the negative before ever being implemented. So better try again..


newbosssameastheoldboss....

now we get to blow the shyt out of Syria tuuuuuu! Tanks Obamma...!
jghedge

climber
Jun 16, 2013 - 05:14pm PT

"Yeah Norton, some will sing the praise of the current admin all the way to jail.."


Yet when you ask a wingnut what laws have been broken, let alone what crimes were committed, you get...





...........crickets................



And deservedly so. They have...nothing.


sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 16, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
Voted for Obama twice. 2x. The dude isn't any better than bush. Not at all. You want to give the guy a pass because he won the peace prize? What exactly did he win it for?
jghedge

climber
Jun 16, 2013 - 05:32pm PT


What Sweden Can Tell Us About Obamacare

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/business/what-sweden-can-tell-us-about-obamacare.html?_r=1&


LAST month, for the 37th time, the House of Representatives voted to repeal Obamacare, with many Republicans saying that its call for greater government involvement in the health care system spells doom. Yet most other industrial countries have health care systems with far more government involvement than we are ever likely to see under Obamacare.

What does their experience tell us about Republican fears?

While in Sweden this month as a visiting scholar, I’ve asked several Swedish health economists to share their thoughts about that question. They have spent their lives under a system in which most health care providers work directly for the government. Like economists in most other countries, they tend to be skeptical of large bureaucracies. So if extensive government involvement in health care is indeed a recipe for doom, they should have clear evidence of that by now.

Yet none of them voiced the kinds of complaints about recalcitrant bureaucrats and runaway health costs that invariably surface in similar conversations with American colleagues. Little wonder. The Swedish system performs superbly, and my Swedish colleagues cited evidence of that fact with obvious pride.

The United States spends more than $8,000 a person per year on health care, well more than twice what Sweden spends. Yet health outcomes are far better in Sweden along virtually every dimension. Its infant mortality rate, for example, was recently less than half that of the United States. And males aged 15 to 60 are almost twice as likely to die in any given year in the United States than in Sweden. [ED: Also no doubt a function of gun control]

In fairness, those differences result partly from lifestyle. In Sweden, workers are more likely to commute by bicycle than by car, for example, and obesity is far less common. Absolute poverty and income inequality — both associated with adverse health outcomes — are also lower.

But when illness strikes, the Swedish health care system responds efficiently. Managers have exploited economies of scale by consolidating services into fewer but larger hospitals. The American system has also gone through consolidation, but, by contrast, boutique hospitals are also more common here — partly in response to demands from patients with very high-cost health plans. In large hospitals, CT scanners and other expensive diagnostic and treatment machines are in nearly constant use, versus only a few hours of weekly use in some small ones.

Larger hospitals with heavier patient flows also enable their staff to hone their skills through specialization and experience. If you are getting a knee replacement or coronary bypass surgery, you want teams that do scores of such procedures each month.

Doctors in the two countries also face different financial incentives. In the United States, under the fee-for-service model, they can bolster their incomes, often substantially, by prescribing additional tests and procedures. Most Swedish doctors, as salaried employees, have no comparable incentive.

Another important difference is that, unlike many American health insurance providers, the government groups that manage Swedish health care are nonprofit entities. Because their charge is to provide quality care for all citizens, they don’t face the same incentive to withhold care that for-profit organizations do.

That more hip-replacement operations are performed per capita in Sweden than in most other countries is almost certainly a reflection of the generous care options rather than of any inherent deficiency in Swedes’ hip joints.

The Swedes also provide drugs and other treatments only when evidence establishes their effectiveness. People can spend privately on unproven treatments, but the government refuses to impose their cost on taxpayers.

IS there a catch? When I asked my Swedish hosts to describe any downsides to their system, several mentioned the waiting times for certain nonemergency services. One told me that whereas in the United States a wealthy or well-insured patient might schedule a hip replacement with only a week’s notice, in Sweden the wait could be as long as three months. He described such waits as a design feature, noting that they allowed facilities to be used at consistently high capacity, and thus more efficiently.

Obamacare also contains many evidence-based provisions for medication and other treatments. But at least in its initial stages, it will not be able to match the cost savings achieved in Sweden.

That’s because the legislation’s design was heavily constrained from the outset. Surveys showed that most Americans were satisfied with the existing health plans provided by their employers, so any new system that required people to abandon them would have been a political non-starter. As I discussed in an earlier column, however, such plans are an extremely inefficient way to pay for health care. They arose as an unfortunate historical accident during World War II, when employers used them to sidestep the wage controls that had resulted in extreme labor shortages.

Employer health plans have been disappearing steadily, and may one day be gone entirely. The encouraging news is that the Affordable Care Act was intended to foster the evolution of a new system that can capture many of the gains currently enjoyed by countries like Sweden.

For that to happen, however, Congressional critics must abandon their futile efforts to repeal Obamacare and focus instead on improving it.

Their core premise — that greater government involvement in health care provision spells disaster — lacks support in the wealth of evidence from around the world that bears on it.

The truth appears closer to the reverse: Because of pervasive market failures in private health care markets, this may be the sector that benefits most from collective action.

Robert H. Frank is an economics professor at the Johnson Graduate School of Management at Cornell University.

jghedge

climber
Jun 16, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
"Voted for Obama twice. 2x. The dude isn't any better than bush. Not at all."

See post above. Then ask someone who was denied health care coverage until the advent of ObamaCare (many of whom post regularly to this forum) if they agree.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 16, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
This isn't Sweden...I don't see Sweden sticking their nose in places where it doesn't belong. Focus on health care reform, fine. More power to you. You deserve a peace prize for implementing that. Expand wars in Muslim countries where the majority of people killed are women and children....f*#k you
jghedge

climber
Jun 16, 2013 - 05:47pm PT

"This isn't Sweden...I don't see Sweden sticking their nose in places where it doesn't belong."


????

What?

Explain?

sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 16, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
edited, and not f*#k you, dude. I don't even know you.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 16, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
no difference between Bush and Obama?

joking right?

3000 US soldiers died in Iraq under Bush, NONE are dying there now under President Obama

no difference?

Bush invades Afghanistan, President Obama is now pulling ground forces out of Bush's war, again.

no difference

Under Bush the economy goes into the worst recession since the Great Depression and tens of million of jobs are lost

Now under President Obama we are out of recession and recovering and million of jobs added

no difference

under Bush zero as in nothing passed to improve anyone's life with health insurance

under Obama tens of millions of Americans are and will get health insurance

no diffence

yeah, let's go back to the past, Obama is doing such a bad job, blah blah blah
jghedge

climber
Jun 16, 2013 - 06:24pm PT


" Expand wars in Muslim countries where the majority of people killed are women and children..."


Links? Stats? Data?

Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
Dick Cheney: Edward Snowden Is A 'Traitor' And Possibly A Chinese Spy


Posted: 06/16/2013 9:58 am EDT | Updated: 06/16/2013 12:54 pm EDT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/16/dick-cheney-edward-snowden_n_3450006.html

If Cheney says it's so, it must be true
Or maybe it's another Werner false flag!!



otherwise, we all know there is no difference; if you'er insane, stupid, an idiot or just too high
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jun 16, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
no difference between Bush and Obama?

joking right?

3000 US soldiers died in Iraq under Bush, NONE are dying there now under President Obama

no difference?

Bush invades Afghanistan, President Obama is now pulling ground forces out of Bush's war, again.

no difference

Under Bush the economy goes into the worst recession since the Great Depression and tens of million of jobs are lost

Now under President Obama we are out of recession and recovering and million of jobs added

no difference

under Bush zero as in nothing passed to improve anyone's life with health insurance

under Obama tens of millions of Americans are and will get health insurance

no diffence

yeah, let's go back to the past, Obama is doing such a bad job, blah blah blah

expand NSA wiretapping under BO, check.

initiate the killing of americans abroad by drones. check.

expand drones killing people. check.

have a DOJ that sucks the Presidents cock. check.

your right Norton, no comparison.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 16, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
Well, let's see what's out there.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org yes, yes, I know, we withdrew all the troops, except for the mercenary army that continues to do dirty sh#t over there (i.e. Blackwater)
http://www.aclu.org in reference to Afghani casualties. but who cares about those dirty goat fukers, that was where the boogeyman Osama devised 911 from his cave.
Tim Cahill, Dirty Wars...Google the sh#t unless you're too lazy

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/world/asia/pakistan-us-drone-strikes/
its kinda old, but I guess still relevant.
and then there's wikipedia, Drone attacks In Pakistan, but we all know wikipedia is nothing but lies. But you could follow that with this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28/us-drone-strikes-afghanistan_n_2970777.html
How about Anwar Awlaki, a U.S. citizen and his 16 year old son who were eliminated in a drone strike without due process, under Obama's watch. You can google that too, unless you need a link.
Whatever, flame away. Blind party loyalty isn't my thing jhedge/Norton.




Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 16, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
weak and trite

you struck out on the big stuff

you look desperate when your partisan hatred distorts your otherwise good reason and logic



Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
Right wing mob witch hunt, check
lame ass brain washed dupes on the side of pure evil, check

Where were all you guys when Bush MADE ALL THIS LEGAL?

no witch hunts then, when the money was paying your leaders to look the other way, so you didn't get your talking points yet?
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jun 16, 2013 - 08:33pm PT
norton.

dems = repugs.

hate to break the news to you.
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