Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 43641 - 43660 of total 44861 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 25, 2014 - 10:41am PT
Brandon wrote: The tea party and the occupy movement have common ground. We all have common ground. Let's find that and work together to fix a broken system, rather than be divisive.

No they don't. The tea party dislikes almost anything the government does. The occupy movement wants more government regulation.

The tea party also dislikes the party they caucus with. They can't find a common ground within their own party and you expect them to find it with democrats?

crankster

Trad climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 10:46am PT
jammer, you're in for a long 2 years. Hillary is the candidate. There's not even a close 2nd. I really like and admire her. She'll do a good job.
jammer

climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 10:49am PT
Brandon, you are only out of touch I think in that you somehow don't see that the people creating the division are the ones who are intolerant of "different" people. There is no compromising with these people. Conservatives in general, and republicans in general, are definitely worthy of being heard and deserve a place at the table to achieve a greater diversity of input, however not at the expense of getting rid of everyone they, the republicans, disagree with, which is their starting point for "compromise". Its a joke. It's like they are car shopping and their starting offer for any car on any lot is $0, and the fact that this idiotic offer gets laughed at is somehow used as evidence that everyone just arbitrarily hates them. The butthurt HAS to be an act. HAS to be...
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Jun 25, 2014 - 10:52am PT
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.

Jun 25, 2014 - 10:10am PT
None of you want a compromise, or a way to move forward hand in hand with the other party.

I'll admit, the tea party is a huge impediment to progress, but there has to be some middle ground. Nobody is so stupid as to deny progress in exchange for unattainable goals.

Not here. Not in this thread. Several of the so-called liberals are exceptionally hostile and intolerant. What's worse is they seem to think there's nothing wrong with their negative attitudes.

I'm no posterchild for respectful civility. But I recognize my lousy behavior for what it is.

Edited to add - Thank you DerF, Bob Duh, Cranky & Jamstain for effectively illustrating my point.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 25, 2014 - 10:57am PT

My whole life, the IRS has intimidated me more than any other government agency. Not because I cheated or didn't pay, but because of the power that they possess.
(Background music of Beatles playing "Taxman")

We now have a unionized government class with incredible job security but virtually no accountability, and who have the power to disrupt the lives and the rights of the citizens who have other ideas about American democracy, no?

We hear how the Koch brothers are motivated by a toxic mix of ideology and economic self-interest.
Fair enough, but don't you think that a class of workers might be seduced by the same sorts of impulses?

Itís true that the already super-rich Kochs would benefit from a freer country.
Itís also true that the government workers would benefit from a larger and more powerful bureaucracy, no?

If you want to know who threatens the IRS, look who Lois Lerner apologized to.
Why did she apologize and why did she take the 5th?

Don't you old hippies remember when you tapped your feet to "Taxman" and nodded in approval?
What happened to you?


Excellent post, Larry. I hope, though, that you lack high expectations of rational discussion of your point. Pointing out either common ground or common faults on this forum usually results in 5 pages of "I am not" and "only the other side is," interposed among accusations of how much more intelligence a rock possesses than the ideological opponent.

The dismissal of the IRS scandal by the partisans really disappoints, but, sad to say, does not surprise me. Those of us who have dealt with the IRS either as a target, or as representing a target of its ire, know the tremendous power it has -- and needs to have to collect our taxes. Any misuse of that power should concern any citizen who values civil liberties.

John
jammer

climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:00am PT
Crankster,

Except the only thing which legitimately loads the conservative cannon is Bill Clinton's economic policy. Without that they really would not have hardly a single view point based in fact. What has Hillary done to ensure she also won't sell our economy to China? And what did China do to ensure that all the favors Bill did for them were distributed throughout their system to ALL their people? Seriously, wake up with regards to Hillary. You are right now packing the cannon which will blow your political head off in another four to eight years...

Also, Hillary splits the democratic vote since there are plenty of democrats that are unimpressed with women like Hillary's slant on womens rights (we see her as a power monger with no principles. Why did Bill feel the compulsion to constantly cheat? When he did, why didn't Hillary divorce him?), and we KNOW the republicans will stand united against her. Hillary, or the GOP candidate, winning the next election is EXACTLY the plan. WTF do you think the war on women, aka the war on 50% of America, is all about?


Edited to add: Just like how putting a black guy in office was GUARANTEED to alienate a bunch of "Americans". Why do you think the GOP can say damn near anything they want about Obama and not get immediately publicly ridiculed for it? SOOOO many "Americans" are "in the closet" there...

And again, the folks with money have LIMITED options that must be coherent in reality. They are people, not gods.

crankster

Trad climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:05am PT
You're way off base, jammer, and not following politics, I guess.
Have you seen a poll lately?
Not another candidate on the radar screen. Not counting the $$ war chest.
She'll win the nomination by a landslide and the general election by 5%

Saying Hillary is unfit because her husband cheated is really unfair.

Hillary's tough. She knows what's coming from the loony's. Don't join them.

republicans will stand united against her.
C'mom, this will be true of any candidate.
You think you're going to find a candidate to appease the right? C'mon.
Just win, baby.
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2014 - 11:05am PT
John
Please tell us about what the IRS scandal is all about
since it has been debunked as a partisan witch hunt, and no wrongdoing can be found.
The lost e-mails have nothing to do with the scandal, it's just more fodder for conspiracy, they lost the e-mails before the investigation, so there Was No purge of secret correspondences

And it's against the law to trot out someone that won't testify as a dog and pony show, so this whole thing is a complete injustice on part of the Republicans

It's very disappointing to me that the Republicans would do this, when they know there is no there there
jammer

climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:15am PT
Crankster, don't worry, if Hillary is put up I will stay home and generally keep my mouth shut, unless she utterly walks away from Bills economic policy, and I mean WALKS THE FUK AWAY! Then I will vote for her.

Also, I am pointing out the results of what I believe was an exit poll for a democratic presidential primary from 08 in which Hillary decisively split the democrats based solely on being a woman. SUCH an obviously shitty choice, it makes me completely wonder what is really going on...
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:17am PT

JohnE,

explain how you see a "scandal" in a couple of IRS agents in a building in Detroit

who were swamped and understaffed with a sudden massive onslaught of new applications for tax free status

did they "profile" to select applications with certain words in them like "tea party" or "progressive"?

of course they did, those words are more likely to represent groups that have more of a purely political agenda" and thus should NOT be awarded tax free status

government agencies prioritize and profile all the time, they have to

where is the scandal?

the only group denied tax free status was a "progressive" application

did the IRS take a long time to complete processing of applications? Yes, they were swamped

where is the "scandal", John?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:21am PT
Thanks, Dr. F., for giving me a chance to inform those who see this as nothing serious. The IRS targeting of conservative organizations differed from that of any other organization. Only the conservatives' applications ended up in limbo. Until the IRS acts, an organization has a difficult time going to court, because a prerequisite to court action is exhaustion of administrative remedies. Those liberal organizations that were targeted were either approved or denied. The conservative ones just went into a black hole. I've challenged anyone who disagrees with that statement to point out one (1) non-conservative targeted organization that failed to get a response. To date, no one on this forum has taken up that challenge. I am aware of no counterexample.

Meanwhile, we find that hard drives containing relevant emails allegedly crashed, and were destroyed -- while the IRS was in litigation, and the contents of those hard drives contained discoverable evidence. Intentional or negligent spoliation of evidence is a tort in California, and now most of the rest of the country. In any case, the IRS handling of the crashed disk drives, and its failure to maintain records it was required to maintain, create strong circumstantial evidence of a coverup.

Add Lois Lerner's plea of the Fifth Amendment, the IRS waiting four months to tell congress that evidence was missing, and the danger to democracy and freedom a politicized IRS poses, and you create a rather serious issue. Claiming that Republicans ginned it up ignores both the conduct that started this -- IRS targeting based on political considerations, done to organizations that would presumably be unfriendly to the incumbent administration and in close proximity to an election -- and the danger such conduct poses.

I'm quite certian that if the shoe were on the other foot, the Democrats and their allies in the media would be screaming for years.

John
jammer

climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:21am PT
Also, if Hillary DOES manage to win (if she is run), she will likely win by such a miniscule amount there will obviously be no political consensus and the country will just go on fighting. We need a candidate that actually does represent a majority of Americans (both left and right, and yes the GOP is split the f*#k up so let us try to appeal to the reasonable folks...) to come and win a political landslide or the American people will get no voice. A political landslide would be a cakewalk for any middle of the road politician.
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2014 - 11:22am PT
Everything you elluded to was false John
Can't you read?
sorry you have to be such a partisan for the side that gins up deciet and witch hunts
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:27am PT
jammer, I think Hillary is a stronger candidate than you seem to realize, particularly given the rather weak Republican field. I would vote for her over several possible Republican candidates. For all her personal issues, she strikes me as someone with the political skill to build coalitions to get things done.

Also, after sixteen years, "Clinton Fatigue" seems like a small price to pay for competent governance. Of course I have major disagreements with her, as I do with any Democrat (and most Republicans), but I think she has an ability to convince independent voters to support her, particularly given the tremendous support she has in the popular media. If I were a Democrat, I would be quite
optimistic if she were the nominee.

John
jammer

climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:31am PT
John, then again, I have actually looked at the data...
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:37am PT
On what basis were tea party groups seeking non profit status?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:39am PT
I have too, jammer, but I think the outcome depends on the candidate the Republicans nominate. We are a fractured party at present, and I can easily imagine scenarios in which we end up with a 1964- or 1976-type electoral disaster.

The real difficulty in polling likely outcomes is that Hillary is a well-known person nationally, who has already generated a lot of strong opinions. Until the Republicans choose a nominee, Hillary gets compared to perfection, not the imperfection of a real opponent.

John
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:39am PT
John...what about lost emails.

So funny..."Committed to defending Bush administration wrong-doing at every turn, Darrell Issa in February weighed in on the White House's destruction of millions of emails. Now a self-proclaimed IT expert, Issa claimed that the likely criminal loss of the emails, including those for critical time periods such as the breaking PlameGate scandal, was just the result of a software glitch.

Mother Jones described Issa's feeble attempt to blame IBM's Lotus Notes software then used by the Bush White House, an accusation he was later forced to recant:

Defending the White House's decision to switch from the Lotus Notes-based archiving system used by the Clinton administration, Issa compared the software to "using wooden wagon wheels" and Sony Betamax tapes. To observers of the missing emails controversy, Issa's comments seemed little more than an attempt to deflect blame from the White House for replacing a working system for archiving presidential records with an ad hoc substitute. But to IT professionals who use Lotus at their companies, Issa's remarks seemed controversial, if not downright slanderous. Now, according to an executive at IBM, the software's manufacturer, the California congressman has apologized for his characterization of Lotus and offered to correct the congressional record."


Issa is a CRIMINAL
Jorroh

climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 11:45am PT
Brandon....compromise requires movement from both sides. Obama wasted the first half of his presidency trying to be high minded, making one concession after another to the right and getting less than nothing in return.

The classic example is obamacare...a health system still mediated by private insurance companies but with consumer protections written into the law. The core system was originally designed by the Heritage foundation as an alternative to the Clinton health care initiative and first implemented in Massachusetts by a republican governor.

I think almost everyone on the left was kind of shocked that this was the kind of health reform that was being proposed, no national healthcare system...no co-ordination of practitioner training...just insurance companies reigned in with a smattering of consumer protection...not even an option for public insurance for those who wanted to buy into it.

I can't imagine a more significant compromise, yet look at the reaction.

One side has made a political calculation explicitly NOT to compromise, thats the reality...in their own words.
You can try and sound even handed if you want, but The "look Ma, they're doing too" excuse is mostly complete and utter garbage and I'm really sick of hearing it.
jammer

climber
Jun 25, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
The real difficulty in polling likely outcomes is that Hillary is a well-known person nationally, who has already generated a lot of strong opinions. Until the Republicans choose a nominee, Hillary gets compared to perfection, not the imperfection of a real opponent.

I wasn't comparing her to perfection, but to the matchup between Obama and McCain/Palin. Also I said I looked at data from an 08 election, but I mis-spoke. I compared 2012 election data (this is the stuff with Hillary) to 08 election data. IMO McCain/Palin would have walked all over Hillary since Hillary split the democrats up. I bet the "war on women" changes that to either Hillary barely wins, or Hillary barely loses. In either case America gets f*#ked.
Messages 43641 - 43660 of total 44861 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews