Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Messages 42881 - 42900 of total 45362 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 13, 2014 - 01:26pm PT
nice post, JohnE
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 13, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
Dr. F.,

I don't think your story is entirely wrong, but neither is it completely right. Maliki included no Sunnis in his government. ISIS certainly has some people affiliated with the old Iraqi Baathists, but remember that the old government was largely Sunni, in a country with a majority of Shiites.

In that situation, it should surprise no one that the Sunni would welcome the ISIS forces as liberators. The Shiites, of course, don't view it the same way.

As for blaming this on Bush, that is your prerogative, but the US didn't dictate to Iraq to install Maliki to head its government, and hasn't dictated to him to include Sunnis or Kurds in meaningful participation, and that fault, if it be a fault, extends to both administrations.

Again, though, I don't see this as a time for partisan bickering.

John
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Jun 13, 2014 - 01:40pm PT
JEleazarian
The little I get out of this forum topic usually comes from your excellent posts.
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2014 - 01:46pm PT
Again, though, I don't see this as a time for partisan bickering.


Why don't you let your Republican Leadership know that.

This week, The Speaker of the House, John Boehner said the President has "Napping" through it all

and that was just minutes after the President said he has been working on this exact issue for the last 2 Years!

As far as I'm concerned, that was the Most Lack of respect a Speaker of the House has Ever been to a President, it's a despicable demonstration of hate and telling the world that we are weak because of national divide.

Every thing this Party does is about creating More Partisan Divide..
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jun 13, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
John E wrote: Again, though, I don't see this as a time for partisan bickering.

John...there a few reasons we are in Iraq, all based on lies and all told by one president and staff.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/13/die-tageszeitung-iraq-front-page_n_5492125.html
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 13, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
but the US didn't dictate to Iraq to install Maliki to head its government, and hasn't dictated to him to include Sunnis or Kurds in meaningful participation
This is true.
There are two lessons. You can't dictate how a country is going to govern once you set up their "democratic" government.

We've seen the same sad story in Afghanistan the past 13 years. They may finally be sorting it out.
In the case of Iraq, in fact all the pieces were put in place during Bush II. Obama just carried out our prior obligations.
As has been mentioned, Senator Biden proposed a three state solution. During Bush II. He was laughed at by both parties.
It's very difficult to see how the Sunnis, Kurds and Shiites in Iraq can work together without regional autonomy. The Kurds achieved effective autonomy during the Iraq war. They drove Saddam's troops out (with "coalition" help of course) then set up their own temporary government. Once that was done, there was very little warfare in Kurdistan.

Other lesson: it's easier to get into a swamp than out again.

Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
Have any of you seen the MSNBC special on why we invaded Iraq
all recently sourced from classified info

1) It was all about Oil
2) Bush needed a war for political capital
3) Cheney would get rich off the oil and Haliburton



'Why we did it' Part 1, US thirsty for energy | MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/why-we-did-it-part-1-us-thirsty-for-energy-184918083750

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 13, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
Most Lack of respect a Speaker of the House has Ever been to a President, it's a despicable demonstration of hate and telling the world that we are weak because of national divide
That's very true. It was shocking and unpatriotic, besides untrue.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jun 13, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
The fault with Iraq rests squarely on Congress and post-911 chicken littles.

Let THEM go get the weapons merchants.

DMT
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 13, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
1) It was all about Oil
2) Bush needed a war for political capital
3) Cheney would get rich off the oil and Haliburton
Which anyone who was paying attention knew at the time. It was just too outrageous to be believed by most Americans and Brits.
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2014 - 02:11pm PT
Who would have ever imagined a sitting President would fabricate fake intelligence and present that to Congress so they can invade a Country of their choosing?

You would have to believe the President was being truthful just out of Love for your Country. I don't blame any of the Dems for this, not one of them fabricated the lies, none of them championed the war, they were just making decisions on what they were told. And they Never said, go ahead and invade before we find these WMDs that Saddam is about to use on his eminent invasion of America

It ranks up there with the lies Hitler told his country.

And the final assessment of it has been made, and that's all Bush wanted us to make our judgment on his war
It will be one of the worst episodes in American History and will go down
as the point where we learned "Do Not Trust Our Republican Leaders, They will Lie about anything and everything"
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 13, 2014 - 02:15pm PT
Other lesson: it's easier to get into a swamp than out again.

Sad to say, HT, too many still don't learn that lesson. My memory is doing its Friday afternoon fade (particularly with the possibility of climbing tomorrow), so I hope someone who knows will correct me, but I think it was Tojo who said that it is easier to start a war than to end one.

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jun 13, 2014 - 02:29pm PT
"Far be it from me to try to gain a partisan advantage from this tragedy."

Well, that's what makes you truly unique, John: a rational, respectful conservative. About the only one here at ST, near as I can tell- the rest of 'em gladly jump on the political bandwagon, for no other reason than to enhance partisanship and try to put their party back into power. They really do seem to hate America.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 13, 2014 - 02:30pm PT
John
Napolean, the Russian Campaign in 1812
Napoleon went to Kaurakin, the Russian ambassador, and harshly questioned him. "What does this mean? What does Russia want from me? You know itís easy to start a war but itís very difficult to finish one."
http://www.pbs.org/empires/napoleon/n_war/campaign/page_12.html
Binks

climber
Uranus
Jun 13, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
The WAR is no mystery. As with most everything started by Republicans under false pretenses, just follow the money. Who profited? That's who the war was "for". Nothing they actually say matters. They have learned that they can say one thing, do another, then say the opposite thing in a month and the people won't even remember or care.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jun 13, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
There were some Iraq war travesties and tragedies off the battlefield.
In UK, David Kelly a Ministry Of Defense analyst leaked to the BBC that Tony Blair's government was "cooking the books" on Iraq WMDs.
that Tony Blair's Labour government had knowingly "sexed up" the "September Dossier", a report into Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.
He was found dead 6 weeks later from a slashed wrist.

The official Hutton Report concluded the books hadn't been "cooked". Of course now we all know they were. And that Kelly had committed suicide; which, although likely, is by no means certain.
Throughout 2004 there were frequent questions from medical practitioners,[20] as well as ambulance crew on the scene, about the veracity of the verdict of suicide.[21] They said that it was extremely unusual to die as a result of cutting the ulnar artery - Kelly being the only supposed case of this occurring in 2003 - and that almost no blood was found at the scene.

Then of course the highly illegal and unethical of Cheney's chief of staff outing CIA agent Valerie Plame in retaliation for her husband's report there was no Niger Yellowcake uranium transfer to Saddam.

And now the VA has insufficient resources to treat all the blown up men and women. Many for the rest of their lives.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Jun 13, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
Disbanding a professional military probably wasn't a good idea...unless you wanted to really f*#k up a country.


http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/06/13/How-Iraq-s-Army-Lost-So-Much-Ground-So-Quickly

p.s. f*#k you "conservatives" for the chaos you've wrought.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jun 13, 2014 - 03:13pm PT
p.s. f*#k you "conservatives" for the chaos you've wrought.

maybe so

but at least they got their opposition to equal pay for women right

so they are not wrong about everything

plus, they are really good on the economy
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Jun 13, 2014 - 03:13pm PT
Republicans will do anything to keep the oil flowing for their corporate masters. Cooking up a fake WMD scare is par for the course.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jun 13, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
This new Iraq twist reminds me of the last scene in "Carrie" where the hand reaches out of the grave and pulls her friend down. But that was just a nightmare....
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