Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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jammer

climber
May 23, 2014 - 05:30pm PT
My issue with Obama is that we have the most progressive president in our history and he bails out the corrupt and unethical, sharks and snakes, of the big banks and Wall St. with taxpayer money. Capitalism without bankruptcy is like religion without Hell.

Fair enough. I have the same gripe. For the most part though, I support him. The problem I see is that the big banks have such a big wad to throw, they can give to both parties, and both candidates would be politically unethical if they took the money and gave the banks nothing in return, and instead passed legislation which took their power away. If they promised to pass this legislation upfront, the banks will not give any money and it makes it that much harder to keep up with the guy who gets the money instead. This is the same story with many of the 1%, with of course personal allegiances, etc. playing their respective roles.

I am not justifying the current B.S. system in any way, just pointing out that criticizing Obama for playing by the current rules of the board is a poor political criticism. The same thing can be said about any politician in a high ranking elected office, not to mention any appointed ones.

So as far as I am concerned it comes to campaign finance reform, and I will let you do your own research on who stands where with that.

Edited to add: Criticizing Obama for accepting lots of money in order to get elected is just a little too close to, if not identical to, "look what the BLACK guy is doing". Too much of the same sh#t.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 23, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 23, 2014 - 06:28pm PT
Here's a truly "environmentally responsible" Republican candidate for US Senate in Minnesotaaaahhhh.
http://www.montimoreno.com/environmentally-responsible
Makes sense to me.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 23, 2014 - 06:33pm PT
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 23, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
shocka! another lib "expert" using false data:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Qjf36n5A8


meet the new marx, same as the old marx
Larry Nelson

Social climber
May 23, 2014 - 07:11pm PT
John,
You are right, jousting is a rich part of the climbing tradition. And what heights would we attain without a little Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? ...heh.

I have been spending much time in Brazil over the past 8 or 9 years, and I see that even a former communist (Dilma, and Lula before her) needs and can get rich off of capitalists in a corrupt system. And didn't Hugo Chavez die with over a Billion dollars in his personal bank account? He could have personally supplied every Venezuelan with a lifetime of toilet paper and still been rich enough to party with Hollywood elites.

Liberal early in my California youth, apolitical and non-voting into the 90's, I have turned libertarian over the past 20 years. I don't believe our system is a true capitalist system, but one of crony capitalism. This perversion, that favors the wealthy and politically connected of both parties, is riding on the backs of the working middle class.

I am not a republican (I don't bash religion, but I believe they need to keep religion out of their platforms) but why am I not a democrat?
The Wall St bailout showed to me that their cries about wealthy republicans are disingenuous and hypocritical.
40 years of the war on poverty and it's going as well as the war on drugs republicans started.
$50 billion or so a year on education to DC bureaucrats and students now need a BA to be as educated as high school grads in the 60's. We all know the crisis in primary education isn't dollars, it's parents taking an interest.
A federal Energy department that costs what and gives us what?
A Medicare system which we need, but is pilfered for $50 Billion a year in fraud, decade after decade.
Social safety nets that are needed in a civilized society, but when allowed to be abused...and it is allowed...they create pathologies that are anathema to a responsible citizenry.
Regulators who are busy surfing porn sites (not that there's anything wrong with that on your own time).

Most of these problems could be more easily corrected in local politics, where there is more accountability to the voters and policies can be fine tuned to the local needs.

The financial unpleasantness of 2008 was a result of a societal degradation in ethics. Too many people... rich / poor, left / right, republican / democrat, old / young... felt entitled to getting something for nothing.

Because of human nature or unbridled power, each party needs the other to keep them honest. I don't trust any of em.
Question Authority.
jammer

climber
May 23, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
Larry,

Your list is mainly comprised of social programs that have been hijacked and tarnished with the aim of politically disenfranchising people like yourself from actually participating in our system and giving a sh#t. Do you think that the people who were against the social programs to begin with suddenly lost all hope and abandoned their cause? Or do you think that they doubled down on their efforts and that the best/most realistic strategy for them to take in doing so is to undermine these programs, then say that programs like that don't work? Naw, they probably lost all hope, and every politician really is evil...

Also, if you will engage me, why would those social programs be better left to states? I disagree about accountability. Letting the federal government handle those things grew out necessity since leaving those things to local municipalities was an utter disaster. Read anything about life in America pre-civil rights to see how that works out.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 23, 2014 - 10:40pm PT
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
Senate GOP Blocked Legislation Expanding Veterans Health Care

In February, Senate GOP Blocked Bill To Expand Veterans' Health Care, Open 27 New VA Health Facilities. Citing budget concerns, Senate Republicans blocked legislation in February introduced by Veterans Affairs Committee Chairman Bernie Sanders (I-VT) that would have greatly expanded health care and education programs for veterans and allowed the VA to open 27 new health facilities:


Veterans groups expressed frustration with the bill's failure, saying it fell victim to Washington's partisan politics. The measure was four votes shy of a 60-vote threshold required for it to have advanced.
(meaning only 3 Republicans voted for it, and they needed 7 votes)

The legislation called for expanding several veterans benefits, including dental and medical care, educational assistance and the caretaker stipends that currently apply only to post-Sept. 11 veterans. It also required the repeal of a recent cut to the cost-of-living adjustments for future military retirees and would have allowed VA to open 27 new health facilities. [The Washington Post, 2/27/14]

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/05/23/flashback-mainstream-media-largely-ignored-gops/199451
Larry Nelson

Social climber
May 23, 2014 - 11:22pm PT
Hey Jammer,
You are right about federal laws on equal education and other issues of the 60's, however, I think that the bigots who fought those social programs of the 60's have either died out, have evolved or have been ostracized. Those battles have been won in the highest federal and state courts and secured with laws both federal and state.
I have a hard time seeing us going back to that, even if Bible thumping republicans ran everything (Dr Martin Luther King was a Bible thumping republican, how ironic)


Social policy is not science because the counterfactuals cannot be disproven.
How can we possibly know what works and what doesn't with so many variables?
That is why I favor states rights.
The proverbial 50 laboratories of democracy will allow us to measure and compare these different social policies side by side.

I will respectfully disagree on the accountability issue.
jammer

climber
May 23, 2014 - 11:45pm PT
Hey Jammer,
You are right about federal laws on equal education and other issues of the 60's, however, I think that the bigots who fought those social programs of the 60's have either died out, have evolved or have been ostracized. Those battles have been won in the highest federal and state courts and secured with laws both federal and state.

I would correct that they had been won, only to be largely outright undone or nullified by legislation in recent years, especially with GWB, who literally LOST THE ELECTION TO GORE. I would also add that these programs still need/needed a lot of work before they were/are ideal, or even as ideal as possible. Given that we have yet to see even realistically idealized programs implemented, I would be loath to be handing the reins back over to the states so soon, especially given their track record from decades ago and the track records of most of those who advocate for a resurgence in state sovereignty. It's a really big no-brainer for me personally.

Edited to add: If the bigots were ostracized, why wont the GOP play ball with a black guy? Do you seriously believe that America today is fair? Did you not just explain "state sanctioned red-lining"? Do you not understand that that still goes on?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 24, 2014 - 07:30am PT
The vast majority of Republicans have bought into the quick hit, short-term strategy and catered to the right wing. Maybe they believe that Republicans can do a quick pivot, plug in the smoke machine and gloss over the actions of the party after November.

But, right now, Republicans believe that deep-sixing immigration reform, decrying climate change, angering women by ignoring equal pay for equal work and keeping the tea party happy by fighting equal rights for gays and lesbians, will all be forgotten in the coming years. Instead, they believe that by focusing on high profile hearings on Benghazi and the IRS they can motivate their base, ride to victory in November and not pay the consequences down the road.

[SEE: Cartoons about the Republican Party]

Their biggest ploy, of course, is the ideologically rigid opposition to the Affordable Care Act. Many Republicans believe that this law will actually work in the long run, be tweaked and improved, and widely accepted by Americans – not unlike Medicare, which was initially opposed, and then became one of the most important and popular reforms of the 20th century. It is my view that Republicans will rue the day when they termed ACA Obamacare. Can you imagine if the Republicans had called Medicare, Johnsoncare? What a boon for Lyndon Johnson that would have been! The difference, of course, was that by 1965 many Republicans had come to their senses and supported Medicare.

My basic point is that the short-term strategy of the Republican Party is going to harm them in the long run, particularly by 2016. They have succeeded over the last three elections at being perceived as anti-black, anti-Hispanic, anti-gay, anti-women, anti-young people. Not to mention anti-middle class. By allowing the extreme right to make their political tent smaller and smaller they risk being a serious minority party in future elections, especially in presidential years.
locker

Social climber
May 24, 2014 - 07:39am PT


" the short-term strategy of the Republican Party is going to harm them in the long run, particularly by 2016."...



I fuking HOPE that is true...
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2014 - 10:31am PT
the Republican Party is anti-black, anti-Hispanic, anti-gay, anti-women, anti-young people. Not to mention anti-middle class.

Don't forget:
anti-science
anti-environmental
anti-freedom
anti-Constitutional
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2014 - 10:40am PT
ron creates a Petition for Campaign finance reform and expects it to somehow solve the problem
and whines to us about how none of us signed it.
Would you sign ron's petition?
I wouldn't, it was a misdirected ploy in folly

but when it comes time for ron to vote, he votes for the very people that Will Work against Campaign Finance reform

In fact, the very reason we have this crisis is because of stupid voters allowing Reagan, Bush I and II to stack the Supreme Court with Koch Brother lackeys (4 of them have been to Koch Brother Parties).

The Dems are hoping to pass a Constitutional Amendment to say that corporations are not people
But of Course the Republican will obstruct it.

So for now, we have to fight big money with our own big money, just so we can get the big money out
And hope that Scalia dies
and pray that no other Republican wins as President


So ron, if you want to get the money out of politics, you have to vote for the Dems, because the Libertarians and Repubs will use your vote to make sure Big Money stays in Politics
Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2014 - 10:59am PT
My issue with Obama is that we have the most progressive president in our history and he bails out the corrupt and unethical, sharks and snakes, of the big banks and Wall St. with taxpayer money.

WRONG Wrong wrong

Obama is Not the most Progressive President in our History
The Republicans spread that lie to create fear and to say "look at the scary extra liberal Black President, we have to stop his radical agenda"
He is a moderate conservative with some liberalism.

Obama Did Not bail out the banks and Wall Street
Bush did, how could you forget...

don't you remember Mr. Hanky Paulson standing in front of the Country telling us he needs $760 billion ASAP to save the economy, and he was going to give it the banks, no questions will be taken on where the money is going.


These are exactly the kinds of things that make people think that the parties are the same and Obama is incompetent, BS propaganda.

My advice
Get your information straight before you form opinions, otherwise you come of as a dupe.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
May 25, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
Why are republicans wrong about everything?

Because they are the least common denominators. They represent fear-based, reactionary anti-intelligence.

Larry Nelson

Social climber
May 25, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
Hey Doc,
Just out of curiosity, which American President is considered more progressive than President Obama?

I'm no political junkie (WTF am I doing here??) and in no ways an expert. The opinions in my posts only reflect an average person's ability to recollect and sort data from some years before.

Here's a couple links that may have contributed to my laymen's opinion.
Regards,
Larry

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aXTl_q8nIqk8

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Profiles/President/US/Barack_Obama/Views/TARP/

jammer

climber
May 26, 2014 - 03:40pm PT
Larry,

I am not sure what those articles inform you of. They seem to imply that Bush giving the bailout money to corporate executives to be used primarily for bonuses and other executive compensation and which essentially amounted to a huge otherwise inaccessible loan to certain big business, which was then repaid (since we all would have had Bush's head if it wasn't), somehow means that Obama misused his chunk of the bailout money since he gave it to homeowners and small businesses who had gotten screwed over the worst, and didn't expect it to get repaid (since this is what America on the whole thought ALL of the bailout money should be used for). I would in no way agree with this assessment, and I am just a laymen like yourself.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
May 27, 2014 - 06:26am PT
Larry posted:
Hey Doc,
Just out of curiosity, which American President is considered more progressive than President Obama?

Based on policies actually enacted, Nixon is far more liberal generally speaking than Obama. Reagan raised more taxes. Eisenhower had more liberal economic policies. Johnson and Kennedy were far more aggressive on the civil rights issues of their day.


In economic news, I was shocked...SHOCKED... to find out that the Republican propaganda about unemployment benefits was wrong: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/cutting-off-emergency-unemployment-benefits-hasnt-pushed-people-back-to-work/

Either that or Americans are just lazier than even Paul Ryan thought!

John posted
I particularly like your comment about bankruptcy and capitalism. As someone with an advanced degree in economics (from the University of Chicago at Los Angeles) and more than 30 years experience as a bankruptcy lawyer, I think an economic system's bankruptcy mechanism matters more to overall prosperity than most people realize.

I agree. What did you think about Congress making it far more difficult for Americans to declare bankruptcy about a decade ago?
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