Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Messages 42021 - 42040 of total 52599 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
jghedge

climber
Mar 27, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
"Hedge-Can you at least get your propaganda right? I thought Florida, Colorado,Nevada,New Mexico,West Virginia,and Ohio all went blue for Obama?"

Yes, Rick - that's what "all the other Red states in the donor column have turned blue" means

And I said that NM turned blue

McCain won WV in 2008, and Romney, by a huge margin (62-35) in 2012 - meaning it didn't "go for Obama".

Ohio, at $1.05, is basically tax-to-revenue neutral

Do I have it straight yet?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 27, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
Thanks for the correction.When was the data ,as represented, collected? Have you verified the numbers by comparison with another source? Can any two people or organizations agree on such interpretations? Is the truth a slippery thing prone to spin?
jghedge

climber
Mar 27, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
"When was the data ,as represented, collected?"

Here ya go you betcha:

http://taxfoundation.org/article/federal-spending-received-dollar-taxes-paid-state-2005

A tad outdated, as indicated by the increase in Blue States (6, counting Iowa and Ohio)

The interesting dichotomy to cross-reference is that the Blue States with the highest GDP have the lowest tax-to-spend ratio, and the poorest Red States, the highest; ergo, the Red State Socialism phenomenon - oh, excuse me, "propaganda".

Strangely, the fact the Dixie states (which the authors claim could be state-income-tax free in a decade) are basically supported by the federal gov't, didn't make it into the article.

Those states have been the US's version of Greece since ante-bellum times. Greece simply needs to be supported by the EU like the South has been supported by the liberal Blue States.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 27, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
Well-I didn't bother to open your link after i noted the data was from 2005, the same year as your other comparative tax paid to benefit recieved list. Really Hedge, if you are going to claim something as current fact get current data.
jghedge

climber
Mar 27, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
From 2007

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state

Notice it also shows Ohio as basically break-even, tax-to-spend neutral, and roughly correlates from top to bottom with the previous chart

Waiting for most recent census-data update - as opposed to simply pretending that the most recent census-based numbers must be wrong; probably not a good bet, eh?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 27, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
Ahh Hedge, we had a little event known as "The Great Recession" between now (2013) and 2005, or even 2007 ,that might have altered the landscape and ratios more than just a little.I've got better things to do with the rest of my night. I'll look tomorrow to see if you have any current and verifiable numbers to back your claims.
jghedge

climber
Mar 27, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
"I've got better things to do with the rest of my night. I'll look tomorrow to see if you have any current and verifiable numbers to back your claims."

Here's from 2010:

http://visualizingeconomics.com/blog/2010/02/17/federal-taxes-paidreceived-for-each-state

Shows CA at 77 cents, Mississippi at $2.02

Basically no change fro the 2005 chart

Credit: jghedge

Same source, taxfoundation.org

Of the 20 states with the lowest tax-to-spend ratio, 17 are blue

Of the 20 states with the highest tax-to-spend ratio, 4 are blue


And, by the way...I'm not "making any claims" - just citing stats.

The numbers speak for themselves.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 27, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
Well Hedge i checked one more time before retiring for the night. Your data is still not current. Your data source Tax Foundation.org is widely and stingingly criticized by other tax think tanks. Even Paul Krugman, nobel laureate economist and trumpet of the new economy, has characterized the Tax Foundation as a "deliberate Fraud". Surely you can do better, can't you?Case closed on this chapter?
jghedge

climber
Mar 27, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
PK was referring to the Tax Foundation's corporate tax analysis, and their analysis of the "Buffett Tax". Anything referring to the topic at hand?

And wouldn't their refutation of anything PK believes lend them more weight, not less?

Again, not looking like too safe of a bet, eh?
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:55pm PT
weak,

you lost, period
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 28, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
Why the hell are the feds in the business of redistributing wealth from state to state anyway?

Unhinged and Dr. Fraud see redistributing property from one individual to another as righteous and noble, but a great sin when considered state by state.

I guess it's just the the recipients aren't ideologically pure enough.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2013 - 07:53pm PT
Unhinged and Dr. Fraud see redistributing property from one individual to another as righteous and noble,
What a fool

When has any liberal advocated for redistributing property

The only thing we said is raise taxes on the takers, the rich, like Reagan said we should do, so we can keep America from going under.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
Well we have B-1s flying sorties over S korea now, and kim ding-aling threatens mainland america...
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Mar 28, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
What is wrong with Republicons?

Read their own autopsy here:
http://growthopp.gop.com/default.aspx



1. Some people say, “Republicans Don’t Care”

Jack Kemp used to say, “No one cares what you know until they know you care.”

But how can the Repugs really pull off a giant lie like that?


The perception, revealed in polling, that the GOP does not care about people is doing great harm
to the Party and its candidates on the federal level, especially in presidential years.

What have people, like myself and many on this board been say for how many years we have been here and beyond?

It is a major
deficiency that must be addressed.
One of the contributors to this problem is that while Democrats tend to talk about people,
Republicans tend to talk about policy. Our ideas can sound distant and removed from
people’s lives.

Or you can talk about how to make America a better place for the PEOPLE of the nation


Instead of connecting with voters’ concerns, we too often sound like
bookkeepers.

… or just a bunch of anti-American, backward-ass, gun-toting yahoo obstructionists…


We need to do a better job connecting people to our policies.
We are the Party of private-sector economic growth because that is the best way to create
 jobs and opportunity.

…that just hasn't lifted a finger on creating jobs at all during the latest recession…


That is the best way to help people earn an income, achieve success
and take care of their families.

…do I have to mention you put up for election a guy single-handedly responsible for as many as 6000 jobs lost alone? How about not aligning yourselves with fat cat CEOs who make money on other American's pain?


But if we are going to grow as a Party, our policies and actions must take into account that the
middle class has struggled mightily and that far too many of our citizens live in poverty. To people
 who are flat on their back, unemployed or disabled and in need of help, they do not care if the help
comes from the private sector or the government — they just want help.

Unfortunately you fail to realize that your party headliners included folks who were able to utter the word "Let 'em die" during a primary debate. How do you fix that when you know that is you in a nutshell and to the core?
 

Our job as Republicans is to champion private growth so people will not turn to the government 
in the first place.

…sounds good in theory….


But we must make sure that the government works for those truly in need, helping
them so they can quickly get back on their feet.

Except that your party has been working for the last 30 years to eliminate any and every agency that worked toward this goal. You are really going to turn around this freight train?


We should be driven by reform, eliminating, and
fixing what is broken, while making sure the government’s safety net is a trampoline, not a trap.

Look at you, already working on getting clever


 As Ada Fisher, the Republican National Committeewoman from North Carolina, told us, “There are
some people who need the government.”
Our policies must lead people to a better life through a thriving, growing private sector that works for
the middle class, and those in need. As Senator Marco Rubio said, “What people who are struggling
 want more than anything is a chance — a chance to make it in life.”
The Republican Party must be the champion of those who seek to climb the economic ladder of life.

…uh, what about someone who would just like to survive for a lifetime? Who may not need to fill this incessant need to grow, grow, grow, more, more, more bullshit we get from CEO after CEO?


Low-income Americans are hardworking people who want to become hard-working middle-income
 Americans.

Though this is true, that the low-income Americans are indeed, in most cases, very hard-working… your president Bush made a revealing statement when a grandmother admitted to him that she was working 3 jobs to make ends meet… just to get by…. and he said "Truly American"?
Giant Fail in my book.

Middle-income Americans want to become upper-middle-income, and so on.

…But anyone with half a brain can see that not everyone can be the lion in the jungle. Not everyone can possibly be at the top. I for one have no need to be a top money maker. Don't try to impose this view of the world on the rest of America, please?


We need
to help everyone make it in America.

Talk to your "so called" job creators, the high overlords you bandied about all last election season. The ones you spend so much of your time suckin' the ass of every day of your life.


We have to blow the whistle at corporate malfeasance and attack corporate welfare.

….I just got done saying you suckin' the ass of the job creators. Now you're going to cut them off from the American feet they've been suckin' at for 30 years? Good f*#kin' luck.



We should
speak out when a company liquidates itself and its executives receive bonuses but rank-and-file
 workers are left unemployed.

But, again… this is exactly how your last presidential candidate made plenty of his millions. Start there!


We should speak out when CEOs receive tens of millions of dollars
in retirement packages but middle-class workers have not had a meaningful raise in years.

…watch your step… them's fighter words to those CEOs. Too bad it means nothing in reality. You can hold their feet to the fire all you want, too bad they paid for your entire campaign and you put that rider


If we believe our policies are the best ones to improve the lives of the American people, all the
 American people, our candidates and office holders need to do a better job talking in normal,
people-oriented terms and we need to go to communities where Republicans do not normally
go to listen and make our case.
We need to campaign among Hispanic, black, Asian, and gay
 Americans and demonstrate we care about them, too.

…Because you do the exact opposite of this every day of you existence. Actively writing legislation that works toward harming each one of these groups during every session in every level of government you find yourself in.


We must recruit more candidates who
come from minority communities. But it is not just tone that counts. Policy always matters.
 As part of the Growth and Opportunity Project’s effort, focus groups were conducted in Columbus,
Ohio, and Des Moines, Iowa, (where we can get a real broad-based feel for America as a whole) to listen to voters who used to consider themselves Republicans.
These are voters who recently left the Party.
 Asked to describe Republicans, they said that the Party is “scary,” “narrow minded,” and “out of 
touch” and that we were a Party of “stuffy old men.” This is consistent with the findings of other
post-election surveys.

Recommendations:
1. The Grand Old Party should be synonymous with the name “Growth and Opportunity Party.”

Fail


2. The Republican Party needs to stop talking to itself. WOW… You noticed!! We have become expert in how to provide
ideological reinforcement to like-minded people, but devastatingly we have lost the ability to
be persuasive with, or welcoming to, those who do not agree with us on every issue.

Giant Fail


3. It is time for Republicans on the federal level to learn from successful Republicans on
the state level. are there any? Consider Scott Walker's personal brawl with unionized workers It is time to smartly change course highly unlikely as it is, modernize the Party, and learn once
again how to appeal to more people, including those who share some but not all of our
conservative principles. 

Every word….. FAIL


4. The perception that the GOP does not care about people is doing great harm to the Party except that it's your individual candidates and incumbents who cause this to be true
and its candidates on the federal level, especially in presidential years. It is a major
deficiency that must be addressed.

Address this all you want… it'll never reach the critical mass needed to sway a population of decent, hard-working human beings


5. We need to do a better job connecting people to our policies. Our ideas can sound distant 
and removed from people’s lives. Instead of connecting with voters’ concerns, we too often
sound like bookkeepers.

….bookkeepers?…. Not exactly the word I'd use here….
Fail.


6. The Republican Party must be the champion of those who seek to climb the economic ladder
of life. Low-income Americans are hard-working people who want to become hard-working
middle-income Americans. Middle-income Americans want to become upper-middle-income,
and so on. We need to help everyone make it in America.

again, you have to check this with your corporate backers before implementation… uuuuhhhFAIL, again. Wait, are you just repeating the sh#t you said up-doc? EVEN BIGGER FAIL!!! Your ideas only go this far?


7. We have to blow the whistle at corporate malfeasance and attack corporate welfare. We
should speak out when a company liquidates itself and its executives receive bonuses but 
rank-and-file workers are left unemployed. We should speak out when CEOs receive tens
of millions of dollars in retirement packages but middle-class workers have not had
a meaningful raise in years.

You repeat, I'll repeat… But, again… this is exactly how your last presidential candidate made plenty of his millions. Start there!



8. If we believe our policies are the best ones to improve the lives of the American people,
all the American people, our candidates and office holders need to do a better job talking
in normal, people-oriented terms and we need to go to communities where Republicans do
not normally go to listen and make our case. We need to campaign among Hispanic, black,
 Asian, and gay Americans and demonstrate that we care about them, too

Again, because you have done a really bad job of this for 30 years and work daily to marginalize each of these communities every day of your existence.

FAIL, all of it Fail



There you go, the first part of the Growth and Opportunity paper put out by the Republicon Party think tanks…. and it all has no possibility of being implemented, not even slightly.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 29, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
The obvious and long-ago predicted result of the Iraq War. The neocons were utterly desperate for us to pay several trillion dollars to secure Mideast oil reserves for China. In fact, we should probably ask Iran and China to pay Bush, Cheney, and Runsfeld's pensions and healthcare given they might as well have been paid agents of those regimes.

...In the meantime, China's moving in to lay claim to much of Iraq's known oil reserves of 143.1 billion barrels, which it needs to feed a burgeoning economy.

jghedge

climber
Mar 29, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
"Unhinged and Dr. Fraud see redistributing property from one individual to another as righteous and noble, but a great sin when considered state by state."


Hahahahaha - nope.

Merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the right complaining about socialism when their states benefit the most from it, and the liberal state's wealth is redistributed to them.

The obvious lesson: Want your state to get out of poverty? Quit Voting Repub.
jghedge

climber
Mar 29, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
Guess who else cites Red State Socialism?

http://wall.patch.com/articles/christie-house-majority-s-toxic-politics-to-blame-for-delay-in-sandy-aid


"Christie also noted New Jersey and New York's position as donor states, who pay far more in taxes to the federal government each year than they get in return."


Whoops, hahahahaha

A leading repub governor citing Red State Socialism?


Priceless!


jghedge

climber
Mar 29, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324532004578362053722832998.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

"Consider the South. We predict that within a decade five or six states in Dixie could entirely eliminate their income taxes. This would mean that the region stretching from Florida through Texas and Louisiana could become a vast state income-tax free zone."


Gee, I wonder why?

Amount received for every dollar paid in federal tax per state

Mississippi $2.02
Louisiana $1.78
Alabama $1.66
Kentucky $1.51
S Carolina $1.35
Tennessee $1.27



The real question is - with numbers like that...why is it going to take a decade?
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2013 - 04:53pm PT

It's a race to the bottom,
that is what the Republican AND Libertarian agenda really is all about, I got mine, F-you
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