Dave Kos
Trad climber
Temecula
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Jan 10, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
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THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY HAS A SILLY SIGNATURE THEREFORE THE PRESIDENT IS INCOMPETENT!!!!!11111111111111
HE SHOULD HAVE PICKED PAUL RYAN BECAUSE HE IS SO GOOD AT MATH!!!111
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 10, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
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That's really all you got, isn't it TGT?
how someone happens to sign their name......
small things amuse small minds
like how you call the President "Barry", a high school nickname
like you are that close to him or something
you see TGT, when someone like you who can't back up his own lies about the President has to resort to little sh#t like nicknames and signatures.....
well then you really are quite childish, aren't you?
you lost, deal with it and grow up Teeee Geeeeee Teeeeee, LOL, mock, smirk, etc
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2013 - 08:45am PT
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You say I Lied!!! WTF!!
Please show me one single lie that I posted,
Please
Please show me how a libertarian society of 300 million can possibly exist in a First World Country, It's pure fantasy to expect this country to change in that direction, it would be a disaster of biblical proportions.
So of course I have words for anyone that is a Libertarian.
And why?, so the rich can pay less in taxes, that's the only will benefit.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 11, 2013 - 08:47am PT
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Live Free!
...by suckling at the teat of the state as a public school teacher.
You Randian accolyte, Johnny Galt wannabes are hilarious.
WOLVERINES!
This is the same total lack of self awareness, RunPull fanboi, clownshow dipshittery that gives us classics like "keep your govt hands off my medicare".
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 11, 2013 - 10:57am PT
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I do not touch a single dollar I get paid in this position, but yes I do put it away for future use. Secondly throughout my entire time as a teacher I will only be getting back money the government has previously stolen from me. I previously earned, they took it, I'm getting it back.
How precious. This is some especially entertaining delusional, hypocritical rambling. RunPull, Ayn Rand, FReedom, Hayek, Von Mises, WOLVERINES, GOLD GOLD GOLD! The idea that you are responsible for educating young people makes me physically ill.
You must be the least self-aware ridiculous libertardian hypocrite I've ever experienced (aside from seeing pictures of the dipshit in their medicare scooter with the "keep your govt hands off my medicare" sign)
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jghedge
climber
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Jan 11, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
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"I do not touch a single dollar I get paid in this position, but yes I do put it away for future use..."
Hahahahaha
Perfect illustration of the typical wingnut "thought" process
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jan 11, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
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"I do not touch a single dollar I get paid in this position, but yes I do put it away for future use..."
Hahahahaha
Perfect illustration of the typical wingnut "thought" process
Huh? Is saving now a wingnut action?
John
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 11, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
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let's roll out some more worthless and trite platitudes!
how about: "Freedom isn't Free, you know"
OR: I get a government paycheck, government healthcare, government pension
BUT: I am VERY independent, my OWN man, I don't NEED the Nanny State
REALLY?
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jan 11, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
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What you do with the money you get from the government you despise is not the point, JE.
That's a funny argument that since one doesn't spend the money now one is not benefiting from it now, and benefiting from it later in retirement doesn't count. Reminds me of 4-year olds making excuses.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jan 11, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
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Seeking rational governmental policy is not despising the government.
John
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Jan 11, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
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I think you'll find that the Ayn Randians/libertarians/etc despise the rational government most of us want, like social security, medicare and education support.
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jghedge
climber
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Jan 11, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
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"Huh? Is saving now a wingnut action?"
He's "justifying" taking money from the gov't by not spending it - get it?
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Dave Kos
Trad climber
Temecula
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Jan 11, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
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Secondly throughout my entire time as a teacher I will only be getting back money the government has previously stolen from me. I previously earned, they took it, I'm getting it back.
So you chose teaching as a profession in order to receive "payback?"
Are you going to quit when you are made whole, or will you just keep taking the paychecks - money presumably "stolen' from someone else?
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
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Coins Against Crazies
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: January 10, 2013 NY Times
So, have you heard the one about the trillion-dollar coin? It may sound like a joke. But if we aren’t ready to mint that coin or take some equivalent action, the joke will be on us — and a very sick joke it will be, too.
Let’s talk for a minute about the vile absurdity of the debt-ceiling confrontation.
Under the Constitution, fiscal decisions rest with Congress, which passes laws specifying tax rates and establishing spending programs. If the revenue brought in by those legally established tax rates falls short of the costs of those legally established programs, the Treasury Department normally borrows the difference.
Lately, revenue has fallen far short of spending, mainly because of the depressed state of the economy. If you don’t like this, there’s a simple remedy: demand that Congress raise taxes or cut back on spending. And if you’re frustrated by Congress’s failure to act, well, democracy means that you can’t always get what you want.
Where does the debt ceiling fit into all this? Actually, it doesn’t. Since Congress already determines revenue and spending, and hence the amount the Treasury needs to borrow, we shouldn’t need another vote empowering that borrowing. But for historical reasons any increase in federal debt must be approved by yet another vote. And now Republicans in the House are threatening to deny that approval unless President Obama makes major policy concessions.
It’s crucial to understand three things about this situation. First, raising the debt ceiling wouldn’t grant the president any new powers; every dollar he spent would still have to be approved by Congress. Second, if the debt ceiling isn’t raised, the president will be forced to break the law, one way or another; either he borrows funds in defiance of Congress, or he fails to spend money Congress has told him to spend.
Finally, just consider the vileness of that G.O.P. threat. If we were to hit the debt ceiling, the U.S. government would end up defaulting on many of its obligations. This would have disastrous effects on financial markets, the economy, and our standing in the world. Yet Republicans are threatening to trigger this disaster unless they get spending cuts that they weren’t able to enact through normal, Constitutional means.
Republicans go wild at this analogy, but it’s unavoidable. This is exactly like someone walking into a crowded room, announcing that he has a bomb strapped to his chest, and threatening to set that bomb off unless his demands are met.
Which brings us to the coin.
As it happens, an obscure legal clause grants the secretary of the Treasury the right to mint and issue platinum coins in any quantity or denomination he chooses. Such coins were, of course, intended to be collectors’ items, struck to commemorate special occasions. But the law is the law — and it offers a simple if strange way out of the crisis.
Here’s how it would work: The Treasury would mint a platinum coin with a face value of $1 trillion (or many coins with smaller values; it doesn’t really matter). This coin would immediately be deposited at the Federal Reserve, which would credit the sum to the government’s account. And the government could then write checks against that account, continuing normal operations without issuing new debt.
In case you’re wondering, no, this wouldn’t be an inflationary exercise in printing money. Aside from the fact that printing money isn’t inflationary under current conditions, the Fed could and would offset the Treasury’s cash withdrawals by selling other assets or borrowing more from banks, so that in reality the U.S. government as a whole (which includes the Fed) would continue to engage in normal borrowing. Basically, this would just be an accounting trick, but that’s a good thing. The debt ceiling is a case of accounting nonsense gone malignant; using an accounting trick to negate it is entirely appropriate.
But wouldn’t the coin trick be undignified? Yes, it would — but better to look slightly silly than to let a financial and Constitutional crisis explode.
Now, the platinum coin may not be the only option. Maybe the president can simply declare that as he understands the Constitution, his duty to carry out Congressional mandates on taxes and spending takes priority over the debt ceiling. Or he might be able to finance government operations by issuing coupons that look like debt and act like debt but that, he insists, aren’t debt and, therefore, don’t count against the ceiling.
Or, best of all, there might be enough sane Republicans that the party will blink and stop making destructive threats.
Unless this last possibility materializes, however, it’s the president’s duty to do whatever it takes, no matter how offbeat or silly it may sound, to defuse this hostage situation. Mint that coin!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 11, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
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damn, it's almost like we are debating Michelle Bachman on this thread
stunning intellectual shallowness combined with factual ignorance
"Our party is running out of angry and ignorant white men"
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 11, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
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One wonders what your supreme court would make of a court challenge to the debt ceiling. It'd be easy to argue that by approving a budget, including revenue and spending decisions, congress has also approved any necessarily inherent consequences, such as increased borrowing/debt. Like the senate's filibuster rule, it sounds like it's time for reform of this too.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jan 11, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
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One wonders what your supreme court would make of a court challenge to the debt ceiling
MightyHiker, our Supreme Court may well be asked to make that constitutional decision if our President is literally forced to pay our debts per the 14th Amendment by himself, unilaterally without involving our Congress, which he has the executive power to do.
The House Republicans had no problem raising the debt ceiling 12 times quietly for Republican George Bush
but put a black Democrat in the White House and holy sh#t and all of a sudden ..
It's ALL about "relevance" for the Repubs who ONLY have the House nowadays
having just "spent" 700 billion for "Defense" that same Repub House now has to actually pay for their own spending
and they are going to raise holy hell in the months ahead and insist on a matching one trillion in "cuts" to match raising the ceiling one trillion dollars
they don't get it, do they?
The Repubs control and voted on ALL spending for the past two years
and NOW, when it comes time to pay their own credit card bill, they say NO
this is insane, broken government, exactly why Americans hate their own congress
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dirtbag
climber
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Jan 11, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
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It is fiscal terrorism.
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