Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 40461 - 40480 of total 45391 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 9, 2014 - 02:32pm PT
Reckon that anecdote's reason enough to cut all aid programs to 3 job working single moms, then.

Dog forbid that a system suffer a small percentage of fraud or abuse. PERFECT or NOTHING. Cuz that's the way i go through life. Ain't no 'good enough', or 'work's pretty well' wit me. Fkn car has a broken cigarette lighter? - I Craigslist that action.

What's good for this gander is good for public policy. Fits the model of who us humans are. We are PERFECTION MACHINES, purifying ourselves to gain entry into Hebbin, cuz Dog won't accept anything but White on White.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 9, 2014 - 02:35pm PT
And who's fault is that DIRT? Yours? Mine? Tvash's? Just WHO is at fault?


I went to public schools all my life. Are they NOT available to the downtrodden? The minoritys?

Im 1/8 indian blood. DId that make me a minority ? My father was 1/4 indian blood - did he take advantage of that? My Indian friends here that are 100% native blood- did they take advantage of that when they enlisted to go to Nam, or come back, get a job and work for a living? Off of reservation property i might add. Answers are all no.

I know first hand what "good" those entitlements have done long term. Which is also a reason my Indian friends chose NOT TO dwell on a reservation. They saw that long term affect the same as I.


When you talk of EQUAL RIGHTS, how does something like the consent decree make any sense.?

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 9, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
You need to switch from a assigning blame model to a 'work the problem, Houston', model, dyaoooood.

Although I find that assigning blame works wonders to resolve spats between me and the GF. The moment she accepts blame for everything - the fight's over!
dirtbag

climber
Mar 9, 2014 - 02:39pm PT
Exactly.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 9, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
No i know you fabricate,, as IF youve ever won one of those "arguments" LMAO!
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 9, 2014 - 02:44pm PT
The racial disparity issue in the criminal justice system has two components

1) there's racial disparity - profiling, institutional racism in police departments, etc. That's the hard part. Step one is to explicitly record the problem in our court decisions, ei, have judges consider and explicitly identify in their decisions and opinions. This began 3 years ago in a 9th circuit case involving a voter disenfranchisement of an OR felon - where damning statistical evidence of discrimination was presented and accepted by the court.

2) Too much stuff is illegal - thanks to Prohibition 2.0, mostly. Couple this with zero tolerance - which has produced harsh mandatory sentencing, 3 strikes laws, debtor's prisons, the fact that your record now follows you around for life - preventing you from reentering society -

In short, we just have way to many people in the system, and, because its discriminatory - blacks are vastly overrepresented.

This is actually the easy part. Step one is end Prohibition 2.0, starting with pot. Toss mandatory sentencing, 3 strikes laws, and debtor's prison. Finally, establish policies that allow convicts to reenter normal life - get a job, get housing, vote, etc.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Mar 9, 2014 - 02:49pm PT
Tvash

You're right

It all starts when the other person hits back and ends the moment the other person accepts blame and punishment for everything.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 9, 2014 - 02:52pm PT
If blacks create more crime, shouldnt the also represent a larger percentage in the penal system?

I mean,, if some Black decides to steal from me should i excuse it because of color? And how does that translate into EQUAL RIGHTS?

Dont we have a half black president? How on earth did he come to be? Going to the best schools being born a poor black child and what not. At least according to his "that could have been me" speech.


If a mexican natl threatens me, should i just cower down because of his minority status? If the gang about a half mile from me decides to tag my building should a make them a tamale.

And , FYI, every person ive shot from bow and arrow to gun has been white mind you. Im ALL about "equal rights".
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 9, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
Well, Ron, here's where being data driven comes in handier than bigotry. Turns out that blacks don't commit substantially more crime than whites, even if they do on TV.

Let's take pot, for example. MJ use is actually slighly less for blacks than for whites or other ethnic groups, but statistically, they're close. Arrest, conviction, and incarceration rates for pot are 3 times higher for blacks than for whites however. You can look at other crimes and you'll see the same pattern - substantially similar crime rates by race - 3 x higher incarceration rates for blacks.

No one in the criminal justice system is arguing that this discrimination doesn't exist, Ron - whether or not you choose to take up that mantle as an outsider. No one knows exactly how to tackle it, however - our criminal justice system has grown to be such a gargantuan clusterf*#k, even its practitioners are flummoxed as to where to start to unravel it.

Everyone knows we have too many people in prison and in the system. We're Number 1 by almost 50% - with Putitangs Kindler, Gentler Russia getting the Silver! CA is under a years old court order to reduce its prison population - it's 30% over maximum capacity, and recitivism, thanks to decades of shitty new policies - has gone from an exemplary 27% 30 years ago to 72% today.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
Tvash you must realize that past history also plays into convictions. You say get rid of three strike rules. Will that not encourage the opposite of what you desire?

In grade school, me as a somewhat wild youth had the pleasure of a principles paddle after 3 strikes. Should they have given me 12 strikes before that paddle, i think not. I do agree that pot should be decriminalized to a point. Much like booze is, yet DUI laws are still in effect. Should we make it so you can have 12 DUIS BEFORE paying the price?

That WOULD no doubt help in slowing down population growth, but our streets would be far more dangerous..


edit: And as for repeat offenders, the N hollywood shoot out was from just that- repeat offenders that even had their AKs given back to them by a judges ruling. REPEAT offenders arent UN common either.

There is a classic example in deep history,, i think it was referred to as Rome..
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:11pm PT
Tvash your predisposed feelings are showing,, what about the lefts wingnut sites and channels.. Its CLEARLY both. BOTH i tell you.

And both partys be liars and thieves. That too is clear.

really, Ron?

post a couple links to left wing "nut" web sites that blast out "lies"

then compare that, if you find any, to the massive number of "right wing" liars

Just yesterday you admitted that your knowledge of economic and politics was weak and not up to the depth of intelligence that you have when you post of guns and taxidermy

again, I would never embarrass myself posting about nuclear fusion because I know nothing

why do you continue to blast out your own "predetermined" and very biased "opinions" about subjects that you know very, very, little about?
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:13pm PT
"Tvash you must realize that past history also plays into convictions. You say get rid of three strike rules. Will that not encourage the opposite of what you desire?"

My brother just retired as a public defender. Three small strikes should not land one in prison for life - and that is what has happened to tens of thousands. Suffice to say - it's not what you think.

And past history - and the potential for rehabilitation - is precisely why we have judges to make those sentencing calls. Mandatory sentencing like 3 strikes takes that discretion away from the very people most trained in making that assessment and differentiating between habitually violent people and people with mental deficits that can't get their petty sh#t together. The reality of our system is that it chews up primarily poor people with psychological disorders, including addiction, and learning disabilities.

It's helpful to remember that DUI is a misnomer - its DWI - Driving While Impaired - by anything. That is a crime, as it should be. Taking the drugs that got you impaired is private behavior that, while a public health risk, shouldn't be criminalized.

As Portugal proved in its 2001 move to decrim all drugs - addicts come forward for treatment in greater numbers when they no longer fear arrest. They decriminalized and - surprise! - drug use has gone down.

Regarding DUIs - many states have a system of escalation that has, in fact, helped to reduce drunk driving substantially for recent years. I'd say that program could use improvement - but you'll have trouble finding people with more than 3 DUIs these days who aren't in the slammer.

Anyway, I'm not arguing for a change in the DWI laws.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:15pm PT
I know quite a bit about LEO activities Norton,, i once was one, and a VERY GOOD one i might add. Me against two CA counties and 3 NV counties, and i won. I was case officer in FED court more times than i can remember.

And then i was a victim of the consent decree as well. Even after the above actions. So i have some real life background to the topic at hand.

After risking my life in LEO actions and wildfires, when my job was upgraded and flown , tailored to what i had done for many years, i was told flatly to NOT even apply for that position as it was going to a minority no matter what. 15 yrs of my life down the tubes for something i had nothing to do with. Wheres the fairness?


and Norton,, CNBC, MSN, NBS, ABC, and BFD. Just for starters..;-)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:48pm PT
Tvaish..I agree and disagree with your 3 strikes stance...we had a neighbor that was breaking and entering homes and cars in our tract of homes continually...for him it wasn't 3 strikes but more like 30 strikes...He's been in the big house for a long time now..I agree with you on the weed posession 3 strikes laws being nit-picky...
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:49pm PT
Not getting a desired position doesn't end one's career, does it?

I'm a bit confused here.

@ Rotten - that's why we have judges - to make the call between the 30 break in f*#kwad and some kid who was used by his elders as a drug mule or a dumb guy who can't figure out how to navigate a system even experts have trouble with.

Having said that - life in prison may still be a bit harsh for petty property crimes, however annoying they may be.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:55pm PT
3 strikes was Petey's handout to the California Correctional Officers Association/Organization/Union or whatever. It had nothing to do with the criminal system except to physically expand it and keep the $$ flowing their way.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:59pm PT
Ummm well YES it did in fact end that career for me. Due to the fact that every other Forest, district and station was also under that thumb of the consent decree. It actually caused a mass exodus of very highly qualified USFS personnel into the private world. The result has bee predictably sad as well for the USFS.

At one time you had employees who had been on a certain district or forest for many years- intimately familiar with that district or forest, which land stewardship required. Now we have a host of people shuttling through as only rungs on a ladder. That entire system was changed from the ground up.

Only recently did i have conversations with a district ranger over a rock removal permit pending for a very nice and heavily used recreational area of our forest here. She was not aware of the canyon activities nor did she know of three other areas i suggested to her for such a project where recreation wouldn't be disturbed. Just one example.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 9, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
But you chose to end that career due to dissatisfaction, not the USFS, right? I mean, you could have kept your current position, no?

What was the consent decree for?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 9, 2014 - 04:08pm PT
NO, my "position" was being flown with an upgrade. That i was not allowed to apply for and if i had, it would have been circular filed.
The consent decree was an order/law/ mandate at the federal level that all fed agencys would be brought to equal parity of minority's and women by year such and such.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 9, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
What does it mean when a position is 'flown'?
Messages 40461 - 40480 of total 45391 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews