Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Jan 11, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Secondly throughout my entire time as a teacher I will only be getting back money the government has previously stolen from me. I previously earned, they took it, I'm getting it back.

So you chose teaching as a profession in order to receive "payback?"

Are you going to quit when you are made whole, or will you just keep taking the paychecks - money presumably "stolen' from someone else?

Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
Coins Against Crazies
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: January 10, 2013 NY Times

So, have you heard the one about the trillion-dollar coin? It may sound like a joke. But if we arenít ready to mint that coin or take some equivalent action, the joke will be on us ó and a very sick joke it will be, too.

Letís talk for a minute about the vile absurdity of the debt-ceiling confrontation.

Under the Constitution, fiscal decisions rest with Congress, which passes laws specifying tax rates and establishing spending programs. If the revenue brought in by those legally established tax rates falls short of the costs of those legally established programs, the Treasury Department normally borrows the difference.

Lately, revenue has fallen far short of spending, mainly because of the depressed state of the economy. If you donít like this, thereís a simple remedy: demand that Congress raise taxes or cut back on spending. And if youíre frustrated by Congressís failure to act, well, democracy means that you canít always get what you want.

Where does the debt ceiling fit into all this? Actually, it doesnít. Since Congress already determines revenue and spending, and hence the amount the Treasury needs to borrow, we shouldnít need another vote empowering that borrowing. But for historical reasons any increase in federal debt must be approved by yet another vote. And now Republicans in the House are threatening to deny that approval unless President Obama makes major policy concessions.

Itís crucial to understand three things about this situation. First, raising the debt ceiling wouldnít grant the president any new powers; every dollar he spent would still have to be approved by Congress. Second, if the debt ceiling isnít raised, the president will be forced to break the law, one way or another; either he borrows funds in defiance of Congress, or he fails to spend money Congress has told him to spend.

Finally, just consider the vileness of that G.O.P. threat. If we were to hit the debt ceiling, the U.S. government would end up defaulting on many of its obligations. This would have disastrous effects on financial markets, the economy, and our standing in the world. Yet Republicans are threatening to trigger this disaster unless they get spending cuts that they werenít able to enact through normal, Constitutional means.

Republicans go wild at this analogy, but itís unavoidable. This is exactly like someone walking into a crowded room, announcing that he has a bomb strapped to his chest, and threatening to set that bomb off unless his demands are met.

Which brings us to the coin.

As it happens, an obscure legal clause grants the secretary of the Treasury the right to mint and issue platinum coins in any quantity or denomination he chooses. Such coins were, of course, intended to be collectorsí items, struck to commemorate special occasions. But the law is the law ó and it offers a simple if strange way out of the crisis.

Hereís how it would work: The Treasury would mint a platinum coin with a face value of $1 trillion (or many coins with smaller values; it doesnít really matter). This coin would immediately be deposited at the Federal Reserve, which would credit the sum to the governmentís account. And the government could then write checks against that account, continuing normal operations without issuing new debt.

In case youíre wondering, no, this wouldnít be an inflationary exercise in printing money. Aside from the fact that printing money isnít inflationary under current conditions, the Fed could and would offset the Treasuryís cash withdrawals by selling other assets or borrowing more from banks, so that in reality the U.S. government as a whole (which includes the Fed) would continue to engage in normal borrowing. Basically, this would just be an accounting trick, but thatís a good thing. The debt ceiling is a case of accounting nonsense gone malignant; using an accounting trick to negate it is entirely appropriate.

But wouldnít the coin trick be undignified? Yes, it would ó but better to look slightly silly than to let a financial and Constitutional crisis explode.

Now, the platinum coin may not be the only option. Maybe the president can simply declare that as he understands the Constitution, his duty to carry out Congressional mandates on taxes and spending takes priority over the debt ceiling. Or he might be able to finance government operations by issuing coupons that look like debt and act like debt but that, he insists, arenít debt and, therefore, donít count against the ceiling.

Or, best of all, there might be enough sane Republicans that the party will blink and stop making destructive threats.

Unless this last possibility materializes, however, itís the presidentís duty to do whatever it takes, no matter how offbeat or silly it may sound, to defuse this hostage situation. Mint that coin!

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 11, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
damn, it's almost like we are debating Michelle Bachman on this thread

stunning intellectual shallowness combined with factual ignorance


"Our party is running out of angry and ignorant white men"
Republican Senator Lindsey Graham
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 11, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
One wonders what your supreme court would make of a court challenge to the debt ceiling. It'd be easy to argue that by approving a budget, including revenue and spending decisions, congress has also approved any necessarily inherent consequences, such as increased borrowing/debt. Like the senate's filibuster rule, it sounds like it's time for reform of this too.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 11, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
One wonders what your supreme court would make of a court challenge to the debt ceiling

MightyHiker, our Supreme Court may well be asked to make that constitutional decision if our President is literally forced to pay our debts per the 14th Amendment by himself, unilaterally without involving our Congress, which he has the executive power to do.

The House Republicans had no problem raising the debt ceiling 12 times quietly for Republican George Bush

but put a black Democrat in the White House and holy sh#t and all of a sudden ..


It's ALL about "relevance" for the Repubs who ONLY have the House nowadays

having just "spent" 700 billion for "Defense" that same Repub House now has to actually pay for their own spending

and they are going to raise holy hell in the months ahead and insist on a matching one trillion in "cuts" to match raising the ceiling one trillion dollars

they don't get it, do they?

The Repubs control and voted on ALL spending for the past two years

and NOW, when it comes time to pay their own credit card bill, they say NO

this is insane, broken government, exactly why Americans hate their own congress
dirtbag

climber
Jan 11, 2013 - 05:08pm PT


It is fiscal terrorism.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 11, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
JohnE,

you are a member of the "wrong" political party, per your own stated "values"

isn't it about time you admitted it and renounced them as Chuck Hagel, Arlen Spector, Jim Webb, and Charlie Crist did?
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Jan 11, 2013 - 06:10pm PT

Like the senate's filibuster rule, it sounds like it's time for reform of this too.


Do you burst into flames below the 49th parallel north?
jghedge

climber
Jan 11, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
GOP Looks For Ways To Stop The Rape Comments

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/gop-looks-for-ways-to-stop-the-rape-comments-86082.html#ixzz2HjMusLg7

Former Rep. Mary Bono Mack (R-Calif.) questioned why Gingrey was talking about the months-old comment in the first place.

ďThereís no way to defend what Todd Akin said,Ē Bono Mack said. ďYou just canít do it and you shouldnít try to put it into a scientific context. It was a bad statement. And to try to defend it or explain someone elseís poor choice of words, it would be a foolís errand.Ē
Bono Mack, who was first elected in 1998 but lost her reelection this fall, said some House Republicans donít understand the full range of emotions associated with the abortion debate."


Thanks Mary - maybe I shouldn't have video-teched on all those TV spots for the guy who beat you...


Nah


dirtbag

climber
Jan 14, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
Time to resume Republican bashing. They still are WRONG about every stinkin' thing.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 14, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas spoke in court today, for the first time since 2006. He made a short remark about lawyers from Yale.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/14/clarence-thomas-speaks-justice-makes-comment-in-court-for-first-time-in-7-years/

Presumably he subscribes to the idea that it's better to stay quiet and allow people to have some doubt as to whether you're a fool, than to speak and confirm it.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 14, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
Mr. Norton..That is an excellent point you made about the Republicans now having to pay for all the pork , iraq-Afghanistan , that they passed several years ago...I think this point needs to drilled into their simple little minds on Fox news...They need to be reminded , although they probably never knew , that it is their party that created the debt that they suddenly find so important to pay..idiots...
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 14, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#284226
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Jan 15, 2013 - 10:47am PT
from omb:

hmmm...look closely at 2003-2006
hmmm...look closely at 2003-2006
Credit: bookworm
Nohea

Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
Jan 15, 2013 - 11:09am PT
Let me walk you through this cuz some of you guys have a serious inability to connect the proper dots, but that goes without saying because if your criticizing me here you love the State.

Big stone in the wazoo said

...by suckling at the teat of the state as a public school teacher.

To which I replied

I do not touch a single dollar I get paid in this position, but yes I do put it away for future use.


Because this guys throws around a lot of crap I just wanted him to be accurate, I do not suck on this teat, I have a breast milk pump and I store it away because the person (the State) behind this teat, has for my entire adult life taken money from me by coercion.

He continues
The idea that you are responsible for educating young people makes me physically ill.

Now its starting to get a bit psychotic, that I sitting here in sunny Hawaii have the power to make someone ill. DoodÖ.get help.

Some other guy chimes inÖ


He's "justifying" taking money from the gov't by not spending it - get it?


Try reading that again Champ, my justification is that all $$ earned by me has previously been taken from me and reasons I care not to share with some on this site.

Lets continue, and you can see how the tone changes to a mere conversation, not psychotic rantings
So you chose teaching as a profession in order to receive "payback?"

No I chose teaching because it is a great occupation; the closest school to my home is a public school and a great public school at that. I have eliminated traffic in my life; I wish all of that same peace. I will gladly share with you how this came about but Iíll keep that off this site because there are some real jerks here.

Are you going to quit when you are made whole, or will you just keep taking the paychecks - money presumably "stolen' from someone else?

Plan already made, Iíll quit and gladly step into my retirement. Yes I know if I was true diehard Libertarian I would refuse to hold this job. We each do what we have to but it doesnít mean I am going to forget everything I know about governments and economics.


What are we really arguing here? Party members are economic creationists. I am not


I have seen economic harmony absent of state direction. So have you, what Czar directed the creation of the pencil? Yet you have been indoctrinated so you mock anything contrary to the view given to you.

How does anyone get a degree in History and not grow increasingly skeptical about State power? I did and I have.

Aloha, Have a wonderful week.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2013 - 11:37am PT
Nohea
You never got back to me on the lie I posted

I say you're Wrong!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jan 15, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
House Republican leaders have signed on to spend up to $3 million to keep defending the Defense of Marriage Act in court, according to a copy of their newly revised legal contract obtained by The Huffington Post.


Where is the outrage from GOP members over frivolous spending??



Separation of Church and State? Was that really in the Constitution??
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