Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2012 - 11:07am PT
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You might try comparing the US, Sweden, Switzerland, Germany.
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Mimi
climber
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Dec 31, 2012 - 11:08am PT
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You can only compare three at a time but yeah, very interesting nevertheless. Several country comparisons are surprising and counterintuitive.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 31, 2012 - 11:08am PT
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When people talk about how companies and rich people are going to move out of the US when taxes are raised, I wonder where it is that they are talking about them moving to?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 31, 2012 - 11:45am PT
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Ken,
The austerity in Europe is fairly widespread because the European social expenditures depend on a rising population of workers. The difference is in the pain involved. Germany has done comparatively much better than Greece and Italy, for example, because they were never to the point of having so few paying for so many. When the Greeks hit what should have been a tipping point, they continued to borrow, and the EU community, in particular, continued to lend, thereby making the day of reckoning much more catastrophic. The Republicans want to avoid that catastrophe by controlling unsustainable spending now.
John
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 31, 2012 - 11:51am PT
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John:
In the above you draw a very clear picture. Clear pictures can cause clear consequences.
Let's suppose the "Democrats do not drive us over the cliff".
In that case will you grant that the administration is not solely interested in benefitting itself?
I think this administration is, ultimately, intent on doing what they think is best for America, as was every previous administration. That's why, despite its mantra that everything bad is Bush's fault, it has largely continued to pursue the Bush foreign policy, and now desires to keep the Bush tax cuts almost entirely in place. The tax increase for "the rich" represents, after all, a very small amount of revenue in the overall picture.
I was mainly skewering the Democrats over the disconnect between their rhetoric and their actions.
John
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2012 - 05:42pm PT
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New Years Special!!!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dec 31, 2012 - 05:51pm PT
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Arm teachers after breaking their unions...Priceless.. .Sounds like something MiMi could get behind...? RJ
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Dec 31, 2012 - 07:17pm PT
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How pathetic can one get when they show links ONLY to right wing "opinion" sources
your sh#t does not hold up, getting all your talking points from your "friends"?
a high school kid could destroy you in a credible fact truth debate
If I posted only far left "sources' to prove my sh#t, you would laugh at me
yet you, you miserable intellectually lazy as hell bitter losing partisan moron, do it above
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
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A best of
For the New Years
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2012 - 08:40pm PT
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 31, 2012 - 08:40pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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So, the repug majority in the house cannot even come up with any sort of plan---of any type, whatsoever---to avert the "cliff".
They say, well, it is up to the President, and the Senate....completely giving up on THEIR JOB.
So...the Senate and the President DO their job, and come up with a reasonable compromise plan, that passes 89-8!
The House Republican leadership can't be bother to meet for "several days" to vote on this. But in the meantime, Eric Cantor comes out and states that he OPPOSES the plan.
Repubs say “We should not take a package put together by a bunch of octogenarians on New Year’s Eve,”
Funny, now they want to apply tests to WHO puts plans together? They don't seem to have a problem with plans for women's birth control crafted by a bunch of men!
Is Cantor an idiot?
Biden was brilliant in this, by all accounts. He bridged the divides, brought the sides together, made practical decisions.
Cantor is going to come off as a total fool, messing with the entire economy of the country.
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Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
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The plan is dogsh#t....I hope it doesn't pass
Cantor is an idiot..
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Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
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. Robert Reich : The deal emerging from the Senate is a lousy one. Let me count the ways:
The deal emerging from the Senate is a lousy one. Let me count the ways: http://www.facebook.com/RBReich/…
1. Republicans haven’t conceded anything on the debt ceiling, so over the next two months – as the Treasury runs out of tricks to avoid a default – Republicans are likely to do exactly what they did before, which is to hold their votes on raising the ceiling hostage to major cuts in programs for the poor and in Medicare and Social Security.
2. The deal makes tax cuts for the rich permanent (extending the Bush tax cuts for incomes up to $400,000 if filing singly and $450,000 if jointly) while extending refundable tax credits for the poor (child tax credit, enlarged EITC, and tuition tax credit) for only five years. There’s absolutely no justification for this asymmetry.
3. It doesn’t get nearly enough revenue from the wealthiest 2 percent —only $600 billion over the next decade, which is half of what the President called for, and a small fraction of the White House’s goal of more than $4 trillion in deficit reduction. That means more of the burden of tax hikes and spending cuts in future years will fall on the middle class and the poor.
4. It continues to exempt the first $5 million of inherited wealth from the estate tax (the exemption used to be $1 million). This is a huge gift to the heirs of the wealthy, perpetuating family dynasties of the idle rich.
Yes, the deal finally gets Republicans to accept a tax increase on the wealthy, but this is an inside-the-Beltway symbolic victory. If anyone believes this will make the GOP more amenable to future tax increases, they don’t know how rabidly extremist the GOP has become.
The deal also extends unemployment insurance for more than 2 million long-term unemployed. That’s important.
But I can’t help believe the President could have done better than this. After all, public opinion is overwhelmingly on his side. Republicans would have been blamed had no deal been achieved.
More importantly, the fiscal cliff is on the President’s side as well. If we go over it, he and the Democrats in the next Congress that starts later this week can quickly offer legislation that grants a middle-class tax cut and restores most military spending. Even rabid Republicans would be hard-pressed not to sign on.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Is Cantor an idiot?
Yes. He and the rest of the party are all idiots that need to be taken to an island where they are get things done… alone, where no body else can be harmed by their soaring ignorance.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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While I like Reich, it is important to remember that he is an advocate
He will be furiously unhappy if he gets 99% of what he wants.
let's take his points:
1. Republicans haven’t conceded anything on the debt ceiling This was NEVER ABOUT THE DEBT CEILING. That was an attempt to draw in something totally unrelelated, just to add something to the deal.
It was a negotiating point thrown in, so that you had something to give away. It always was.
2. The deal makes tax cuts for the rich permanent (extending the Bush tax cuts for incomes up to $400,000 if filing singly and $450,000 if jointly) while extending refundable tax credits for the poor (child tax credit, enlarged EITC, and tuition tax credit) for only five years. There’s absolutely no justification for this asymmetry.
"Permanent" is a loose term. This is not enshrined in the Constitution. These can be voted out at any time. The credits can be extended at any time, or made "permanent" at any time. This is a false equivalency.
3. It doesn’t get nearly enough revenue from the wealthiest 2 percent —only $600 billion over the next decade, which is half of what the President called for
I think that is what usually happens in negotiations. You usually end up with a portion of where you start from. If you end up with 100% of what you started with, you started from the wrong place, or you don't know how to negotiate.
4. It continues to exempt the first $5 million of inherited wealth from the estate tax (the exemption used to be $1 million). This is a huge gift to the heirs of the wealthy, perpetuating family dynasties of the idle rich.
I'm not sure that this is reasonable. $5 million covers the price of a number of relatively smaller generational family businesses that would otherwise have to be broken up or liquidated.
But I can’t help believe the President could have done better than this.
Without going over the cliff? Actually, we have already GONE over the cliff. Actually, WE DONT YET HAVE A DEAL.
Reich, you may yet sour this deal, and get us something worse.
The fact is, we have a bad situation. Virtually everybody is going to have to do some belt-tightening.
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Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
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Ken - it's a punt....it doesn't really take care of anything meaningful
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Honk if you think Congress sucks at doing their job.....
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jghedge
climber
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http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2013/01/01/hollywood-loophole-fiscal-cliff
HUGE, and I mean HUGE tax breaks for the industry I work in
People cynically believe it doesn't matter who's in the WH
Hahahahahahahaha
Although, really, the billion or so repub super-pacs poured into broadcast advertising benefitted the broadcast unions (me and my brothers and sisters) way more than the new production tax incentives do
Just gotta know how to work the system, guys, and vote for your own interests
Not against them, like a Pathetic Repub Idiot
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