Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
Fans of the Strongman tend to be weak themselves. Ask them what they would have done in Syria - but don't hold your breath for an answer.

There are a few posters who, post-action, like to think and claim they 'saw it all coming.'

Fukken liars.

DMT
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:17pm PT


"Obama did the right thing in Syria - particularly when Putitang took the reigns"...

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
I might also add that having a leader in a representative democracy that actually gives a sh#t about what his populace wants is not a bad thing for the freedom loving citizen. No one wanted to go to war in Syria.

And finally, Syria did take Obama's line in the sand seriously. It denied chemical weapons use, and that use was certainly not widespread or flagrant. It quickly agreed to give up its chemical arsenal. Not a Zero Tolerance Junky's wet dream, perhaps, but harm was very definitely reduced.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
The Syrian situation was a no-win for the U.S. Sorry to say this, DMT, but those of us with relatives or connections in Syria knew that the situation was much more complex than "Assad-bad; Rebels-good." The only mistake Obama made was making an ultimatum he could not enforce (and my connections there dearly hoped he would not enforce. The Assad government, for all its faults, had generally protected the Armenian and Assyrian Christian minority there. Many of the rebel groups had no qualms about butchering them.) We saw that as a mistake then, so I am, in fact, saying "I told you so."

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2208279&msg=2214142#msg2214142

Our middle east policy has suffered from decades of terrible intelligence, as has our international policies generally since the Frank Church Democrats gutted the CIA in the mid-1970's and replaced it with nothing. I have yet to see any administration or Congress do much about it, although I think Clinton and the early (i.e. pre-Tom Delay) Republican Congress tried.

John
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
Tvash,, utter hog wash-- HOW MANY were just recently gassed in Syria??
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
Sorry to say this, DMT, but those of us with relatives or connections in Syria knew that the situation was much more complex than "Assad-bad; Rebels-good."

Did all of your relatives know I was talking about Ukraine? None of your relatives saw today's Syria, three years ago, anyway.

DMT
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
Last time I checked, our intelligence community was as robust, well equipped, staffed, and fantastically well funded as at any point in our history. Do your own research there. It's been in all the papers. The NSA budget alone eats up nearly 10% of all military spending - bigger than at any time during the Cold War.

And the Church Committee was formed because of Cointelpro, Watergate, spying on innocent Americans, and other illegal activities on the part of the intelligence community. Respect the rule of law much?

This is the first time I've ever heard anyone, ever, say that the Committee's work was a bad thing. To blame it for any of today's intelligence failures is ludicrous in the face of the current Snowden revelations regarding the immensely expanded capabilities of our intelligence community, of course.

Weird, frankly.

Regarding the 'recent' gas attack in Syria - that was last summer. Yes, that's the event, the one we've been discussing here all this while, that resulted in a negotiated agreement to give up its chemical arsenal - a third of which is due for destruction this week, in fact. There have been no gas attacks since then.

Read a paper much?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
DMT,

My comment was about "I told you so," generally, not intended to be about how Ukraine is another Syria. Some people really do have a better understanding of certain international issues than political leaders seem to have.

As for Ukraine, there was never anything any President of the U.S. could have done in this situation, at least post-1949 when the USSR became a nuclear power. The collapse of the USSR didn't remove Russia's nuclear weapons, so direct military confrontation with Russian had no difference from direct military confrontation with the old USSR. It threatens all civilization. Obama's fake line-in-the-sand in Syria didn't help matters, but griping about it in the Ukrainian context is like griping about losing a penny in a trillion dollar debacle.

I still remember when partisanship ended when international relations were concerned. I long for those days, but they seem unlikely to return, since both parties seem to have vastly different visions of the role of the United States in the world.

John
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
As for Ukraine, there was never anything any President of the U.S. could have done in this situation,

I tend to agree. I certainly don't lay this at the feet of President Obama in much the same way I did not lay Katrina at the feet of President Bush.

DMT
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:42pm PT
This is the first time I've ever heard anyone, ever, say that the Committee's work was a bad thing. To blame it for any of today's intelligence failures is ludicrous in the face of the current Snowden revelations, of course.

Weird, frankly.

You must not be widely read. From that source of all knowledge, Wikipedia:

"The Committee's work has more recently been criticized after the September 11 attacks, for leading to legislation reducing the ability of the CIA to gather human intelligence.[13][14][15][16]"

Expand your horizons. Read some from those with whom you disagree!

;)

John
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:45pm PT
Obama Administration Stiffs Chemical Survivors on New Claim
The Assad government may have used chemical weapons again as recently as last month, according to activists pressing the U.S. to investigate the attack.
On Jan. 13 in the Syrian city of Daraya, five people were killed and more than 20 injured after being exposed to a mysterious gas. Syrian activists, including some witnesses on the ground, believe that the attack is evidence the Syrian government is still using chemical weapons against its own people—months after that regime pledged to destroy its nerve gas arsenal.

A group of survivors of Syrian government atrocities, including chemical weapons attacks verified by U.N. inspectors, visited Washington this month to press the White House, State Department, and Congressional officials to take a more active role in preventing atrocities in Syria—and to further investigate this alleged attack on Jan. 13.

The U.S. government, however, isn’t inclined to do so—despite Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s promise in September to give up his chemical stockpile, and despite mounting calls in Washington to do more about the ongoing carnage in Syria.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:48pm PT
Leaders back down and change their minds in the face of new analysis. Obama did the right thing in Syria - particularly when Putitang took the reigns to avoid an Iraq-level shitshow. If he had to back down from a previous statement to do the wise thing, big deal.

Yeah. It was almost like Putin set the whole thing up, with Obama doing his part.

Chess vs. Marbles.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
I don't get it

are you guys saying that you believe it is in the clear interests of the United States to invade Syria to over throw the Assad regime rather than work with the international community in a diplomatic manner?

other than partisan criticism, which is relentlessly nauseating, given all of the intelligence briefings you recently attended, what would you do that is so much more "intelligent"?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:53pm PT
Fans of the Strongman tend to be weak themselves

Exactly right. Beta-boy ballcuppers.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
I give talks on surveillance - I've got two coming up this month. I've been doing this for 13 years now - so I'm quite familiar with all the 'hampering our intelligence community' arguments. Anyone who believes that our intelligence community remains hampered after Sections 215 and 702 of the PATRIOT ACT, the FISA Amendments act of 2008, its reauthorization in 2012, the ballooning of the NSA's budget, and Snowden's revelations simply doesn't know what they're talking about.

Unless one is advocating the return of clandestine assassination of foreign leaders, like, say, Assad. Well, THAT can go both ways, can't it?

Suffice to say that

a) there has long been a contingent that sees the 4th Amendment as an inconvenience rather than the rule of law and a bedrock principle of our democracy.

b) National security is big business

c) An 'unfettered' intelligence community without oversight breaks the law and abuses its powers - and it doesn't focus on the very things it should - counter terrorism, predicting international crises, etc. Instead, it spies on innocent Americans, including ex spouses and girlfriends (LOVEINT!), digs up dirt on such political enemies such as Doctors without Borders and Unicef, scoops up confidential corporate data for god knows what, hacks into online games, weakens the very standards that protect our personal financial security, and violates the privacy of our closest allies. Oh, and it also fights the Drug War - the War on Terror, not so much. What it clearly does not do is predict things like Egypt, Syria, Tunisia or the Ukraine.

Too busy stalking That Bitch that Dumped Me, I reckon.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 4, 2014 - 02:03pm PT
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Mar 4, 2014 - 02:18pm PT

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2014 - 08:33am PT
I heard the people that said that were lying treasonous bastards on the radio
Why would anyone say that other than to be an a-hole

Also on the radio, I heard that all Republicans were brain dead morons with a combined IQ of 40,
and at band camp, I heard that Tea Baggars are part of a Satanic Cult!!

I love it!
DR f have a good day
jammer

climber
Mar 4, 2014 - 02:50pm PT
Tvash, your killing me. So spot on.

Seriously, WTF is with this trying to portray the CIA as incompetent and misinformed, and trying to say that Obama's Middle Eastern policy in ANY WAY reflects that of the GOP. Seriously, talk about some extremely uninformed opinions here, on one particular side of things.

I must say though, it is right in line with expectations. Some people just can't use the rational part of their brains no matter what, and are forever slaves to their emotional judgements. Those tend to be the people who are wrong about everything, regardless of political affiliation.

However, if we used "votes ones interests" as a litmus test for which politically organized group (democrats and republicans primarily) in our country votes rationally vs. emotionally, with voting ones interests obviously representing rational voting and not voting ones interests obviously representing emotional voting, we could make a strong argument for republicans recieving emotionally "rationalized" votes and therefore they, along with the people who voted for them, tend to be wrong about everything. It's certainly not rocket science.

Anyway, Thank you Tvash for being the voice of reason here :). It was dearly needed.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 4, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
Ron...

you never answered this question...


"Ron...

Which is more disgraceful...

A group of people trying to HELP another group gain security...
(Health Care)

or a group of people trying to BLOCK that help???..."...(Too many LEMONS in the TEA!!!)

bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Mar 4, 2014 - 03:09pm PT
barry finally decides to act like an adult in response to putin's aggression:

https://twitter.com/Stcrow/status/440896251203436544/photo/1


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/us-ukraine-crisis-obama-idUSBREA231MX20140304?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=574655

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