Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
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Philo, youd better knott re-post on that "other" thread.. It upsets doc when he losses a hit on his... LMAO!!!!!!!!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Start with raising the Medicare age. This is, as I’ve argued in the past, a terrible policy idea. But even aside from that, it’s just not a big money saver, largely because 65- and 66-year-olds have much lower health costs than the average Medicare recipient.
Actually, Kevin, that has two aspects. One is that it saves costs, which while less than those likely to be encountered in older patients, are still substantial. Second, it increases revenue by putting two more years of collections into the coffers.
The fact remains that neither party touches specifics in saving Medicare or Social Security easily, because it's too easy for demagogues from the other party -- or from other wings of their own parties -- to take potshots. Nonetheless, unless we get something that's been in very short supply, namely honesty and courage on this issue, we're heading for a breakdown of both systems within our likely lifetimes.
John
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 10:24am PT
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JE
Why shouldn't we lower the age??
Aren't we the best country in the world, and we should just make things better in the future, rather than slide backwards
Isn't raising the age just more race to the bottom?
Why rasie it, just to save Money??
What are we saving it for, the end times?
Just raise the cap, and all the money is there, end of all the arguments about its future
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jghedge
climber
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Car Sales Rise Sharply in November; Repubs Have Failed
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chrysler-ford-gm-sales-rise-in-november-2012-12-03?link=MW_latest_news
The jumps coincide with some of the highest levels of consumer confidence in years. And while Sandy shut down business at many dealerships on the eastern seaboard for weeks, and damaged thousands of cars at storage lots, the storm may have been a net positive as insurance companies began to cut checks later in the month, leading to nice bumps in business.
“It was pretty decent across the board,” said Jesse Toprak, senior analyst at TrueCar.com. “Sales are coming in right around our expectations. Overall consumer demand is real and has been steadily increasing.”
Oh but liquidating the US auto industry would have been sooo much better, hahaha
Repubs Have Failed.
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 11:16am PT
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One of the main differences between Conservatives and Liberals
If there is a problem with any Gov. program, the Conservatives just want to scrub the whole thing and throw it out.
Liberals would rather just fix the problem.
SS and Medicare are perfect examples, they can be easily fixed.
And of course, Conservatives are looking for every possible problem so they can just shut em down,
because we all know helping old Americans is Commiunism???
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Donald Thompson
Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
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President Obama is taking Twitter questions on tax hikes disguised as tax cuts starting at 2 p.m. ET today, using #My2k hashtag. Let's ask him some good ones.
Here's what we Tweeted so far (stay tuned):
===
Dear @whitehouse, did you really think that if you re-brand Bush's tax cuts into #My2K Obama's tax cuts, no one will notice?
#my2k if $2k is mine, can you clarify who the rest belongs to?
Dear @whitehouse, how much of #My2K will have to go on the likes of Sandra Fluke $3K/year to have lots of government-subsidized sex?
Dear @whitehouse, how many of #my2k fit into renting a room on one of Michelle's vacations?
Dear @whitehouse, why do you avoid calling #my2k by its real name - extending Bush's Tax Cuts?
#My2K x 264,000 = 1 Solyndra
Dear President Obama - since the dollar will soon be worthless, should I convert #my2k to rubles?
#My2k if $2k is so good, why not make it $4k
#My2k please define middle class
#My2K @BarackObama - At the current spending rate, how fast will the government go through the revenue from your tax hikes? (Tip: 8 days)
@BarackObama - If you really care about #My2K please don't spend it before I even get it.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Donald, how irrelevant are you?
Stupid is as stupid does mama always said.
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jghedge
climber
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"#My2K x 264,000 = 1 Solyndra"
Or 1 day of the War On Iraq!
Which went on for 2200 days! And cost over a trillion dollars!
Which Numbnutz Duhnold pretends never happened!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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John M
climber
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Hey Splitter. I have had plenty of hatred and arrogance directed at me from so called Christians on this forum, including Jody and Bluering. He had a long history here before you showed up. So you can get off of your high horse.
It would be nice if people got along a little better. So called Christians should perhaps look at the log in their own eye before they start trying to pull the splinter out of anothers.
Currently this country is undergoing some serious angst. I remember when liberals were trying to get people to get along and they were called weak, or worse. Then we had to live through George Bush,Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Donald Rumsfeld, Condi Rice and their gang, with their incredible overbearing arrogance and then experience that arrogance come through the republicans on this site and I found myself starting to get very very tired of it. Do you have any idea how many times I was told I was either a pussy, or that i hated my country because I didn't support the war in Iraq or torture? And this from so called Christians. Then when I started punching back, I was berated even more. I know for a fact this is how many liberals feel. There is no respect on either side anymore. I have no idea how to get that back.
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Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
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. . I have no idea how to get that back.
Exterminate them all...
Ahahahahaha
Do it.....Ahahaha
You may as well try to reconcile with a rock..
Bahahahaha
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
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jghedge
climber
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Republicans Go To Obama School
http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/republicans-go-to-obama-school
At Harvard, GOP staffers sit at Axelrod's feet. “We weren't even running in the same race.”
CAMBRIDGE, MA — Demoralized Republicans arrived in Boston Wednesday night for a rare moment in American politics: They came to learn from Democrats.
Barack Obama's campaign schooled Mitt Romney’s in November, something of which the Republicans who gathered at the quadrennial, off-the-record Harvard Institute of Politics Campaign Managers Conference were intensely aware. And while the proceedings of the event are under embargo until the institute releases audio transcripts of the proceedings, some participants shared their reactions.
“We got our butts kicked, so I’m going to school,” said the manager of one 2012 Republican presidential campaign on his way into the sessions on Thursday morning, held in a cozy university conference space.
One Romney aide tried to convince Obama digital director Teddy Goff to join forces with Zac Moffatt, who ran Romney's digital efforts.
The evening-and-a-day conference is the 10th in a 40-year tradition of analyzing winning and losing campaigns. It is, the Institute says, convened “in an effort to allow future candidates, managers, journalists and scholars to better understand the nature of modern presidential campaigns. This year, the line between students and teachers is clear. The Obama team spent much of the morning at the Charles Hotel and skipped the session at which Romney aides and their Republican primary opponents discussed the bitter nominating process, trading strategies and regrets.
When it was the Obama team’s turn to discuss their strategy, the room was packed with Republicans.
Rarely has it been as obvious as it was in 2012 that one side has fallen badly behind on the technology and techniques of politics. From the basic communications tool of mass e-mail to the vital new frontier of big political data, the Obama campaign’s strategy and tactics have drawn a level of excitement that is, among political professionals at least, notably greater than the excitement around the candidate’s message or his hard-won victory.
Romney’s entire team gathered for the early-morning session at Harvard, even those who weren’t on the panel, in what appeared to be a deliberate effort to keep poisonous post-mortem finger-pointing to a minimum. Romney’s campaign chairman and frequent campaign trail sidekick Bob White, and Ron Kaufman, a senior adviser and the campaign’s mascot, sat opposite to the other Romney aides away from the tables arranged in a rectangle.
But the hot ticket at Harvard was the late-morning session in the same — now packed-to-the-brim — conference room, to hear seven top Obama aides to revisit their winning efforts.
The sages around the table: top strategist David Axelrod, campaign manager Jim Messina, deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter, Goff, field director Jeremy Bird, opinion research director David Simas, and ad man Jim Margolis. Every aspect of their effort has already been the subject of tens of thousands of words, and they have for weeks been fanning out across the country telling the story of their campaign’s success, but their rivals were still eager to learn.
Republican operatives from Rick Perry’s data-driven strategist Dave Carney, to Mark Block, Herman Cain’s chain-smoking campaign manager, filled the room, many visibly taking notes. Also listening were the super PAC kings: Carl Forti, Charlie Spies, and Steven Law, whose efforts on TV were solidly negated by the Obama campaign's field operation.
When it was finally over, more than one Republican walked out shaking his head.
“We weren’t even running in the same race,” one downtrodden Romney aide told BuzzFeed after hearing the details of the Obama operation. “They were just amazing.”
And over chicken potpie and mashed sweet potatoes in the wood-paneled dining room of the Harvard Kennedy School conference center, one Republican operative noted that Romney himself was reliving the election over lunch with President Obama.
“Maybe [Mitt] can ask him what we need to do better next time,” the operative quipped.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Repubs Have Failed.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 10:24am PT
JE
Why shouldn't we lower the age??
Aren't we the best country in the world, and we should just make things better in the future, rather than slide backwards
Isn't raising the age just more race to the bottom?
Why rasie [sic] it, just to save Money??
What are we saving it for, the end times?
Just raise the cap, and all the money is there, end of all the arguments about its future
I think you know the answers to your rhetorical questions, but in case other readers don't, both Social Security and Medicare are actuarily insolvent. According to their trustees, but programs are underfunded, and will be unable to pay out the benefits we've been promised, in the case of Medicare, rather too soon.
Since I've paid into these programs for more than 45 years, and have yet to take one dime, I'd like to have them around when I need them.
We could, indeed, lower the age for participation in the benefits, but without paying for that lowering, the funds would simply be exhausted sooner, and for what? So able-bodied people can live off of payments by those still working? We've already saddled our children and grandchildren with paying too much for what we -- not they -- received.
If you prefer, we can raise the taxes on those still working, so that each worker supports one non-worker. Won't that make us as great nation?!
Ignoring the reality of Social Security and Medicare finances is simply a guaranty that these programs won't be around for long. If you think they're useful (and I do, although I'm quite certain that I would have been better off economically if I could have kept all the money taken from me to fund them), why are you trying to destroy them?
John
Edit: Just raising the cap will do nothing, unless you cap the payments. As soon as you do that, you change the fundamental nature of Social Security. More importantly, that isn't enough to solve the problem. Adding 14% on top of our existing highest marginal rates sure won't stimulate the economy, and since only earnings from wages and salaries are included in FICA anyway, exactly what are you accomplishing?
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Donald Thompson
Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
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Repubs Have Failed.
The refrain of the Bloviating Bullfrogs that make-up the current radical and thuggish left which wholly control the Democrat Party and think they control the country.
" CROAK"
The political consultant class which currently control the political campaigns of the Republican Party want to learn from Democrat cranks who are the most effective propagandistic liars.
What a stunning victory.
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 01:52pm PT
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but in case other readers don't, both Social Security and Medicare are actuarily insolvent.
JE
They are???
Why didn't they tell me!
Wrong, they will be solvent for another 20 years
raise the cap, and they will never be insolvent.
so I was correct, conservtives don't want to fix the problem.
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jghedge
climber
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"The refrain of the Bloviating Bullfrogs that make-up the current radical and thuggish left which wholly control the Democrat Party and think they control the country. "
We don't control the whole country
Just the densely populated, prosperous, economically/culturally vital parts of it
The rest of it, we just support financially
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Donald Thompson
Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
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Just the populated, prosperous, economically/culturally vital parts of it
That needs a punch line .
A bloviating punch line.
BTw that chart above has been debunked. I"m in a hurry otherwise I'd do now
Does anyone believe a bunch of urban, coastal dwellers who live primarily in socially pathological and dependent conditions are the source of this nations wealth?
All those single mothers who work for the government and
25 year olds who live in their parents basement are driving our thriving economy and cultural vitality.
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Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
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Ahahahahaha
Sore loser Dunghole Thompson has arrived!
Can't we all just get along Dunghole?
Please .....join me Beelzebub....take my hand.....
We can all be friends again.....
You show so much promise!!
I offer you my love..
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Donald Thompson
Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
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Mr. Whitey Rina....your psychological condition has worsened.
Sorry to see that. Kinda.
You need to drop the sweets and gluten and flush out them poisons.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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They are???
Why didn't they tell me!
Do you read the reports of the Social Security and Medicare Trustees? Even if the programs can make all the promised payments for 20 years (likely with Social Security, doubtful with Medicare), what do you do when the money runs out? Tell the poor suckers that have paid their entire working lives "Too bad! At least we got ours!"?
Again, your proposed lifting of the cap is no fix, unless you cap payments, in which case you've changed the system -- a fact you refuse to acknowledge. Even then, it's not clear that this would raise enough revenue to pay for the promised benefits.
Your fantasy fix does nothing to resolve the very real problems in these programs.
John
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