Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jan 16, 2014 - 04:08pm PT
John,

You give my silly posts far more consideration than they deserve.

I appreciate your responses though.

My point is that I believe regulation can be an effective "ounce of prevention" that can easily outweigh the cost of a "pound of cure."

I'm sure you get that, but many who repeat the Republican party when railing against regulation don't seem to even consider the tradeoffs.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 16, 2014 - 05:12pm PT
A properly-functioning market would provide a monetary remedy, because there would be ownership of the rights the wrongful discharge violated.
Hey!

Can you provide an example of the above? Thanks

Cragar,

I don't know how water law works in West Virginia, but in California, a great deal of water rights in the southern half of the San Joaquin Valley are owned by successors-in-interest of Miller & Lux. If someone pollutes their water, standard property rights law (specifically trespass) makes the polluter strictly liable for any damage. If there is no monetary remedy for polluting someone else's property (in this case personal property in the form of water), it probably means that the jurisdiction lacks well-defined property rights in the water.

Does that help?

And Dave, your comments are always worth consideration.

John
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 16, 2014 - 05:21pm PT
Hey John-

Thanks for the response. I am originally from Bako and plan to look into this 'Miller & Lux' gig. I've never heard the names and know a few farmers in the SSJ. I appreciate the info and will look up the aforementioned..

off topic... You ever hear of shark's tooth mountain in the oil patch north of Bako?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 16, 2014 - 05:25pm PT
Cragar, on your on-topic off-topic question, sad to say, I haven't heard about Shark Tooth Mountain north of the oil patch, but I'm always interested in learning. I did, however, do a very early technical climb on Dogtooth Peak east of Fresno.

I'm not sure of the current ownership status of the Miller & Lux empire, but I remember a Chapter 11 case from the mid-1980's of an entity called Nickel Enterprises, that owned some of the old Miller & Lux water rights. We made lots of jokes about liquid assets.

John
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 16, 2014 - 08:29pm PT
And your picture above is a proven fake. It's just more leftist propaganda.

Really Russ? Well then I suppose you can prove that then link please.



And John all I can say is remember Love Canal.
WTF

climber
Jan 16, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
Russ you prove it now you you you you hater of america.

Prove it just prove it you you you bag making capitalist.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jan 16, 2014 - 10:10pm PT
Incidentally, Philo, "unfettered capitalism" assumes property rights enforced by law. Polluting a water supply violates property rights of the owners of the water supply, and results in liability for all damages, under "unfettered capitalism."

While I agree with your later clarification that both regulation and a lack of regulation are imperfect solutions, even your defense of the free market fails to consider what is likely to occur in this case and many others - the polluting company doesn't have the money or insurance to compensate.

Any pure -ism, from totalitarianism, socialism and communism, to libertarianism and capitalism, is completely unworkable in practice due to human greed and imperfection.

TE

Jorroh

climber
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:26am PT
"For all you fans of regulation, I point out that regulators visited that site at least five times -- including at least once when people nearby complained about the odor of licorice -- and did nothing"

And I would point out that when the bosses and political controllers of regulators believe in market fundamentalism they tend to make sure that regulators don't do their jobs
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 17, 2014 - 06:44am PT
"For all you fans of regulation, I point out that regulators visited that site at least five times -- including at least once when people nearby complained about the odor of licorice -- and did nothing"


Jezl, the facility had not been visited by federal regulators since 1999. I don't know where you got your info from but it wasn't reality.
Freedom Industries is an affiliate of Koch Industries under the auspices of Georgia Pacific. Great guys those billionaire douchebags are. Do you really think they give a damn about anyone they hurt? If not for federal regulations these scumbag capitalists would walk away scott free and laughing all the way to their Cayman Island bank.

By the way the founder of Freedom Industries has two previous felony convictions, one for tax evasion and one for drug dealing.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 17, 2014 - 06:50am PT
Ten Examples of Welfare for Corporations and the Ultra-Rich
January 16, 2014
by Bill Quigley
731
This article originally appeared at The Huffington Post.


Olympic athletes queue up at the McDonalds inside the dining hall at the Olympic Village in London. July 2013. (AP Photo/Bullit Marquez)

There are thousands of tax breaks and subsidies for the rich and corporations provided by federal, state and local governments, but these 10 will give a taste.
1. State and local subsidies to corporations: An excellent New York Times study by Louise Story calculated that state and local government provide at least $80 billion in subsidies to corporations. Over 48 big corporations received over $100 million each. GM was the biggest, at a total of $1.7 billion extracted from 16 different states, but Shell, Ford and Chrysler all received over $1 billion each. Amazon, Microsoft, Prudential, Boeing and casino companies in Colorado and New Jersey received well over $200 million each.

2. Direct federal subsidies to corporations: The Cato Institute estimates that federal subsidies to corporations cost taxpayers almost $100 billion every year.

3. Federal tax breaks for corporations: The tax code gives corporations special tax breaks that have reduced what is supposed to be a 35-percent tax rate to an actual tax rate of 13 percent, saving these corporations an additional $200 billion annually, according to the US Government Accountability Office.

4. Federal tax breaks for wealthy hedge fund managers: Special tax breaks for hedge fund managers allow them to pay only a 15-percent rate while the people they earned the money for usually pay a 35-percent rate. This is the break where the multimillionaire manager pays less of a percentage in taxes than her secretary. The National Priorities Project estimates this costs taxpayers $83 billion annually, and 68 percent of those who receive this special tax break earn more than $462,500 per year (the top 1 percent of earners).

5. Subsidies to the fast food industry: Research by the University of Illinois and UC Berkeley documents that taxpayers pay about $243 billion each year in indirect subsidies to the fast food industry because they pay wages so low that taxpayers must put up $243 billion to pay for public benefits for their workers.

6. Mortgage deduction: The home mortgage deduction, which costs taxpayers $70 billion per year, is a huge subsidy to the real estate, banking and construction industries. The Center of Budget and Policy Priorities estimated that 77 percent of the benefit goes to homeowners with incomes over $100,000 per year.

7. The billions above do not even count the government bailout of Wall Street, while all parties have done their utmost to tell the public that they did not need it, that they paid it back or that it was a great investment. The Atlantic Monthly estimates that $7.6 trillion was made available by the Federal Reserve to banks, financial firms and investors. The Cato Institute estimates (using government figures) the final costs at $32 to $68 billion, not including the takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which alone cost more than $180 billion.

8. Each major piece of legislation contains new welfare for the rich and corporations. The Boston Globe analyzed the emergency tax legislation passed by Congress in early 2013 and found it contained 43 business and energy tax breaks, together worth $67 billion.

9. Huge corporations that engage in criminal or other wrongful activities protect their leaders from being prosecuted by paying huge fees or fines to the government. You and I would be prosecuted. These corporations protect their bosses by paying off the government. For example, Reuters reported that JPMorgan Chase, which made a preliminary $13-billion mortgage settlement with the US government, is allowed to write off a majority of the deal as tax deductible, saving the corporation $4 billion.

10. There are thousands of smaller special breaks for corporations and businesses out there. There is a special subsidy for corporate jets, which cost taxpayers $3 billion a year. The tax deduction for second homes costs $8 billion a year. Fifty billionaires received taxpayer-funded farm subsidies in the past 20 years.

If you want to look at the welfare for the rich and corporations, start with the federal Internal Revenue Code. That is the King James Bible of welfare for the rich and corporations. Special breaks in the tax code are the reason that there are thousands of lobbyists in the halls of Congress, hundreds of lobbyists around each state legislature and tens of thousands of tax lawyers all over the country.

Bill Quigley is a law professor and Director of the Law Clinic and the Gillis Long Poverty Law Center at Loyola University New Orleans.


http://billmoyers.com/2014/01/16/ten-examples-of-welfare-for-corporations-and-the-ultra-rich/
dirtbag

climber
Jan 17, 2014 - 07:26am PT
No one is a "fan" of regulations per se. But they are often necessary.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:41pm PT
What is wrong with our GOVT these days????



Ill tell you~~~~























This mornings headline at KOLO is: "Gov Sandoval millions of DOLLARS ahead for his re-election bid"
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
Ron, WE are the Government, WE are the problem.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:49pm PT
Ohhhhw i KNOW THAT Philo, and concur 1000%.



we NEED,, no HAVE TO HAVE,, CAMPAIGN REFORMS........
jstan

climber
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:57pm PT
Ron is doing a Hillary. Wow!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 17, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
We HAD campaign reform, paltry that it was.

Then we had the Repugs decide that MONEY=speech, and it could not be controlled.

I much, much prefer the rules in England, where there are strict rules on who can campaign, the dollars spent, and there is only campaigning allowed something like 45 days before the election.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 17, 2014 - 01:09pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#267363
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 17, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
Boy, if we could just get rid of the ability of all those with which we disagree to spread their opinions, the world would be perfect!

John
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 17, 2014 - 01:59pm PT
I disagree...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 17, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
We HAD campaign reform, paltry that it was.

Then we had the Repugs decide that MONEY=speech, and it could not be controlled.

I much, much prefer the rules in England, where there are strict rules on who can campaign, the dollars spent, and there is only campaigning allowed something like 45 days before the election.

Agreed but here it will take a constitutional amendment, not a fiat of parliament. So sayeth the Supreme Court.

Something simple like 'money does not equal speech.' Allowing corporations to buy elections is beyond the pale of democracy.

It is the foundation of empire.

DMT
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