Doc, you call inept foreign policies BS,, and thats your perspective i guess. We will see what happens in THAT debate...
Werner, really? You mean the PRESIDENT could NOT have stepped up security even after being warned?? Sorry there but obama has the blood of those killed firmly upon his hands, and his alone.
JE, do you even think its POSSIBLE to have a "stable" market when dealing with the "world economy" ever? How much of our and borrowed monies have went into the black hole w/o a return other than negative?
My answer to your question depends on the meaning of "stable." Stability is not a case of stasis. I like to think of it somewhat like white water running. We can change what side of the river we're on (at least somewhat), but gravity and hydraulics keep moving us downstream -- often with great force.
The only constant about any market is that it will fluctuate (to paraphrase J. P. Morgan). That said, most markets tend toward equilibrium where the price of a commodity clears the market (i.e. people may buy as much as they want, and sell as much as they want, at that price.) The economy as a whole, though, is a moving target that, in my personal opinion, can never be in complete equilibrium. Some prices will always be adjusting.
Frankly, it's the truth of the need for constant market adjustment that makes me skeptical of too many attempts to intervene in the market. Most of those adjustments are necessary to clear the market, and many governmental attempts at intervention are the equivalent of trying to paddle upstream in whitewater.
I do, however, think that the view of Keynes (as opposed to certain "Keynesians") is substantially correct. In situations such as those that prevailed in the Great Depression (and, to a certain extent, the most recent recession), governmental augmentation of aggregate demand is helpful and leads to quicker recovery and milder downturns.
Where I part company with the bi-partisan stimulus expenditures is in the use of that money. We had huge deferred maintenance issues in the public sector. Instead of simply doing what we needed there, we squandered a lot of it doing things like putting curbs on Yosemite roads, trying to build high-speed rail in the San Joaquin Valley, etc. We paid the stimulus money to too small a group, and it didn't trickle anywhere.
One last shot. As I allude in the previous paragraph, the initial stimulus expenditures were a product of both political parties, so you can't blame just Democrats or Republicans. It wasn't the fact of spending the money, however, that caused the "stimulus" to be impotent. Rather, attempting to spend it only helping political allies made it ineffective.
the initial stimulus expenditures were a product of both political parties, so you can't blame just Democrats or Republicans. It wasn't the fact of spending the money, however, that caused the "stimulus" to be impotent. Rather, attempting to spend it only helping political allies made it ineffective.
What a load of crap, the money paid for teachers, highways, police
It should have had more money to keep people employed, but the Compromise with Republicans was to make it half tax cuts, that did nothing to help the economy
But they had to compromise with Republicans so they could get 2 Republican votes, Susan Collins and Olympia Snow.
Why, because we never had 60 Democratic senators, and every billed has been filibustered by the Evil Republican Leaders.
Right John?
We all know that if the Republicans didn't filibuster all the Democrat and Obama bills-
Then Obama would not seem to be failing, because the unemployment would be lower, the economy would be healing and things would being going in the right direction.
But they would rather make it look like Obama is failing than to actually help Americans, which is Treason in my book.
The Dems had jobs bills, budgets, more stimulus, the public option, all filibustered. So hence, the way things are now, has been the fault of the Republicans and only the Republicans.
Right John?
Obama could put millions to work tomorrow, like FDR did during the last Republican depression, but the Republicans would filibuster it
Right John?
But instead, you guys look at the inaction, then blame Obama.
Which is wrong, and a lie.
Most people don't understand how the Gov. works, so it's easy to just go along with the right wing propaganda, and blame Obama. But it's wrong, and a lie.
But they had to compromise with Republicans so they could get 2 Republican votes, Susan Collins and Virginia Snow.
Last time I checked, the Senator from Maine was Olympia Snow, but you know how chameleon-like those Republicans are!
The Stimulus money was spent on union members and on consumer expenditures, not investment. You can filter it through your own, very polarized, lens, but the results speak for themselves -- the weakest recovery from any post-war recession.
Blaming the need to compromise for America's ills makes sense only to partisans. They've already made up their minds. Centrists and independents can see through that rather easily.
Kman, i have no fantasy hopes of romney changing much,, as im sure he will do exaclty what BO is doing now, asking for a second term so that he can bring his plans to fruition.
BUT he will go in different directions regarding many areas that should be a major concern.
Ive been pointing out how obama seems to prefer the muslim side of issues in the ME, as well as the ineffective policies that at every turn have made things worse. He has done exaclty what GWB did. We have seen clearly how that worked out in domestic as well as foreign opinion. Im tired of the black eye syndrome that plagues us now from both the domestic and world standpoints. Weve had decades of this - all with the predictable sad results. Trillions of dollars we dont even have have gone into the restructuring that never really was. Meanwhile coffins get filled and shipped back here for burial with the bodies of our brave young men and women..Thats why i bring up this BS a Doc would call it.
The stimulus was infested with hidden agendas and political payolas.. Brookfield properties for instance is just one off the top of my head. Well buried in the legislation of the stimulus package. One of hundreds!
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 9, 2012 - 12:07pm PT
"but the results speak for themselves -- the weakest recovery from any post-war recession."
Even though that's very arguably true, who in their right mind would vote to put the same party back into power that put us in the ditch in the first place?
The GOP's primary campaign strategy is based on amnesia & polarizing the base with lies & distortion.
i didnt vote for obama. nor biden. both profited in one way or another through that dealing with brookfield properties. As thats just one. The "stimulus" had ZERO affect on my business..Did any one here get a windfall from the "stimulus" of any level? jus curious..Hey Gary,, was it COOL up yonder the last couple of mornings??
edit: FOr the record, im a registered Independent American. If we had a realistic chance i would vote that way. I still may- as here in NV it is clark county that makes the elections, northern NV has slid into political oblivion really.
edit: Hedge, all i know is that if I were president, and the ambassador had already requested more military security as the INTEL said attacks were on the way and 9-11 was coming up- and I DIDNT DO ANYTHING REQUESTED by those in THE KNOW, id feel like a pile of shyt over their deaths. ANd IF YOU wouldnt, that tells me much...
Perhaps I've been misled, but I saw roadwork being done, with signs that said "Your stimulus dollars at work."
And we even have stories of R governors asking for stimulus funds, even after they voted against the bill.
Dr. F, you are absolutely right. The mission of the Republicans, ever since the counting stopped from the last general election, was to oust Obama. Over any other priority!!
And this started before Obama had a single day in office. It is Treasonous, to work against the betterment of the country you swore to help. Ambien, the Republican's drug of choice. It's the only way those bastards can sleep.
Jann Wenner: When you [Obama] came into office, you felt you would be able to work with the other side. When did you realize that the Republicans had abandoned any real effort to work with you and create bipartisan policy?
Obama: Well, I'll tell you that given the state of the economy during my transisiton, between my election and being swon in, our working assumption was that everybody was going to want to putll together, because there was a sizable chance that we could have a financial meltdown and the entire country could plunge into a depression. So we had to work very rapidly to try to create a combination of measures that would stop the fee-fall and cauterize the job loss.
The recovery package we shaped was put together on the theory that we shouldn't exclude any ideas on the basis of ideological predispositions, and so a third of of the Recovery Act were tax cuts. Now, they happened to be the most progressive tax cuts in history, very much geared toward middle-class families. There was not only a fairness rationale to that, but also an economic rationale - those were the folks who were most likely to spend the money and, hence, prop up demand at a time when the economy was really freezing up.
I still remember going over to the Republican caucus to meet with them and present our ideas, and to solicit ideas from them before we presented the final package. And on the way over, the caucus essentially released a statement that said, "We're going to all vote 'No' as a caucus." And this was before we'd even had the conversation. At that point we realized that we weren't going to get the kind of cooperation we'd anticipated. The strategy the Republicans were going to pursue was one of sitting on the side-lines, trying to gum up the works, based on the assumption that given the scope and size of the recovery, the economy probably wouldn't be very good, even in 2010, and that they were better off being able to assign the blame on us than work with us to try to solve the problem.
The obstructionism started even before Obama took office.
Kman, to label EITHER SIDE total treasonous bastards isnt really fair. You dont see me always doing that do you? There are many on both sides of the coin whom have attempted to do good by the people. Unfortunately, we let things get out of hand and are paying the consequences of apathy. As ive said many times before- the reality is, that we are in DAMAGE control mode at this very moment, both domestically and across the globe. Anybody that places the muslim brotherhood in charge of any ME country and then WONDERS what went wrong should receive this years darwin award #1 placement.
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