Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?


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Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
Could you tell rong that the Good Republicans are taking away his liberties to keep him Safe.

It's all for his own good, and those damn Democrates would rather have freedom over the feeling of safety from wiretapping, drones and kill squads.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 6, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
20 years ago if you would tell me that now,, the irs, ss, dhs, and bfd would be stockpiling billions of rounds of ammo guns and urban assualt vehicles, along with mass graveyards complete with fema coffins and detention facilities, and laws like those in the NDAA 2013, and drones flying over US soil spying on us citizens,, i would have laughed..
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
I never said that his thread means ANything

It doesn't mean squat

And I'm still waiting for your apology about the debt vs. deficit debacle of yours

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 6, 2013 - 05:10pm PT

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 6, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
I heard that the sequester caused FEMA to reduce their coffin spending.

Apparently they are looking into simple mass graves now.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
How To Prove Obama LOWERED The Deficit In Four Easy And Indisputable Steps


The GOP, Fox News and AM Hate Radio regularly complain that Obama has raised the deficit. This is a lie. A very VERY big lie. It’s such a big lie and so easy to prove as a big lie that the fact 90% of the country thinks it’s true is one the greatest failures of the “liberal” media since they couldn’t be bothered to vet the Iraq War. The problem is that conservatives don’t want to know, independents can’t be bothered to look and liberals should be deeply ashamed for not knowing.

But worry not! It’s very VERY easy to clear up this misperception (and piss off conservatives to boot!) in just 4 simple steps.

Step One: Establish the facts of what the deficit is and how it works – Ask the conservative, uninformed “independent” or naughty liberal if they understand that the deficit is not the same as the debt. This is super important because the right has gone VERY far out of its way to confuse the two. And for good reason; the debt has never been higher. This is inevitable since we still have a deficit. The debt is a byproduct of the deficit. The only way to pay down the debt is to turn the deficit into a surplus.

The deficit is how much more we spend than we collect in revenue (taxes, etc.). The debt is how much we owe. The deficit is the credit card, the debt is the bill. A bill that the right wants to pin completely on Obama as if we didn’t have a penny of debt until he took office instead of having been built by almost a century of deficit spending by both Republican and Democratic presidents (but mostly Republican).

Do not proceed until these basic definitions are agreed upon or the conservative will attempt to weasel out of the hole you are digging for them by whining about how Obama increased the debt. If they try, mention that every president except Clinton has done that since World War II, why should Obama be singled out? When they invariably say “Because he’s gone higher than any president ever has!” The same was true of Bush at the time and no one on the right seemed upset about it. Ask them to explain why that is or to drop it and move on. Chances are they’ll drop it.

Step Two: Establish when the budget is passed – This is another deliberate lie the right LOVES to pass around. They would very much like you to believe that the 2009 budget with its record shattering $1.4 Trillion deficit was Obama’s. The reality is that budgets are passed and signed into law at the end of the year before. So the 2000 budget was signed into law by President Clinton and President Bush was stuck with it. In 2017, whoever takes the White House will have a budget signed into law in 2016 by the outgoing President Obama. Therefor, the 2009 budget was not “Obama’s,” it was Bush’s. If you need to prove this definitively, share this link to the CATO Institute. The CATO Institute is a respected but undeniably right-wing thing tank. The opening paragraph in their “About Us” section says: “The Cato Institute is a public policy research organization — a think tank – dedicated to the principles of individual liberty, limited government, free markets and peace.” No one in their right mind can argue the CATO Institute is “liberal.” Yet they clearly state that the 2009 budget does not belong to Obama.

Step 3: Establish what the 2009 deficit was – This will be a little tricky because at this point the conservative you’re talking to will be getting VERY uncomfortable with the conversation. They will try to turn the discussion to ANYTHING else at this point. Why? Because it is a tenet of faith among the right that the 2009 budget was $1.4 Trillion and it was all Obama’s fault. Here’s a link to Fox News that should freeze them in their tracks. The relevant part:

“The federal budget deficit tripled to a record $1.4 trillion for the 2009 fiscal year that ended last week, congressional analysts said Wednesday. – Published October 7 2009

The House and the Senate voted to pass the 2009 budget on June 4-5, 2008. President Bush signed off on all of it. Conservatives will try to blame the Democratic held Senate and House for the deficit but they can’t have it both ways. Either the president is responsible for the budget or he’s not. You can’t blame Obama while holding Bush blameless.

If you want to be a helpful wise ass, remind the person you’re talking to that Obama was elected in November and didn’t take office until January 21. That’s almost a full four months after the 2009 fiscal year, with its 2009 budget, started.

Step 4: What is the deficit now? – That’s easy. Go to the CBO’s page and look. the Congressional Budget Office is nonpartisan. They have to be, anyone can check their math and partisan games would be outed immediately. So here it is. Ready?

If the current laws that govern federal taxes and spending do not change, the budget deficit will shrink this year to $845 billion, or 5.3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), its smallest size since 2008.

Is $845 Billion more or less than $1.4 Trillion? At this point, a conservative will be spitting nails or will have stopped talking to you several minutes ago. An independent voter should be trying to figure out how they could have been so completely wrong. A liberal should be deeply embarrassed they didn’t know.

Just so we’re all on the same page here. Obama knocked $555 BILLION off of the deficit. That’s an entire third of the total deficit. That’s more than every president in the history of the country put together. Republicans have been screeching for deficit cuts like demented harpies for years (except when a Republican is in office). If a Republican president did this, the Tea Party would be holding parades for him. Obama did it and 90% of the country doesn’t even know it. The GOP has them convinced the deficit is still going up.

Ignorance is the GOP’s best weapon. Knowledge is ours.

Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
Repent, Dick Cheney


Published: March 5, 2013, NY Times

Dick Cheney certainly gives certainty a black eye.

In a documentary soon to appear on Showtime, “The World According to Dick Cheney,” America’s most powerful and destructive vice president woos history by growling yet again that he was right and everyone else was wrong.

R. J. Cutler, who has done documentaries on the Clinton campaign war room and Anna Wintour’s Vogue war paint room, now chronicles Cheney’s war boom.

“If I had to do it over again,” the 72-year-old says chillingly of his reign of error, “I’d do it over in a minute.”

Cheney, who came from a family of Wyoming Democrats, says his conservative bent was strengthened watching the anti-Vietnam war protests at the University of Wisconsin, where he was pursuing a doctorate and dodging the draft.

“I can remember the mime troupe meeting there and the guys that ran around in white sheets with the entrails of pigs, dripping blood,” he said. Maybe if he’d paid more attention to the actual war, conducted with a phony casus belli in a country where we did not understand the culture, he wouldn’t have propelled America into two more Vietnams.

The documentary doesn’t get to the dark heart of the matter about the man with the new heart.

Did he change, after the shock to his body of so many heart procedures and the shock to his mind of 9/11? Or was he the same person, patiently playing the courtier, once code-named “Backseat” by the Secret Service, until he found the perfect oblivious frontman who would allow him to unleash his harebrained, dictatorial impulses?

Talking to Cutler in his deep headmaster’s monotone, Cheney dispenses with the fig leaf of “we.” He no longer feigns deference to W., whom he now disdains for favoring Condi over him in the second term, and for not pardoning “Cheney’s Cheney,” Scooter Libby.

“I had a job to do,” he said.

Continuing: “I got on the telephone with the president, who was in Florida, and told him not to be at one location where we could both be taken out.” Cheney kept W. flying aimlessly in the air on 9/11 while he and Lynne left on a helicopter for a secure undisclosed location, leaving Washington in a bleak, scared silence, with no one reassuring the nation in those first terrifying hours.

“I gave the instructions that we’d authorize our pilots to take it out,” he says, referring to the jet headed to Washington that crashed in a Pennsylvania field. He adds: “After I’d given the order, it was pretty quiet. Everybody had heard it, and it was obviously a significant moment.”

This guy makes Al Haig look like a shrinking violet.

When they testified together before the 9/11 Commission, W. and Cheney kept up a pretense that in a previous call, the president had authorized the vice president to give a shoot-down order if needed. But the commission found “no documentary evidence for this call.”

In his memoir, W. described feeling “blindsided” again and again. In this film, the blindsider is the éminence grise who was supposed to shore up the untested president. The documentary reveals the Iago lengths that Cheney went to in order to manipulate the unprepared junior Bush. Vice had learned turf fighting from a maniacal master of the art, his mentor Donald Rumsfeld.

When he was supposed to be vetting vice presidential candidates, Cheney was actually demanding so much material from them that there was always something to pick on. He filled W.’s head with stories about conflicts between presidents and vice presidents sparked by the vice president’s ambition, while protesting that he himself did not want the job.

In an unorthodox move, he ran the transition, hiring all his people, including Bush senior’s nemesis, Rummy, and sloughing off the Friends of George; then he gave himself an all-access pass.

He was always goosing up W.’s insecurities so he could take advantage of them. To make his crazy and appallingly costly detour from Osama to Saddam, and cherry-pick his fake case for invading Iraq, he played on W.’s fear of being lampooned as a wimp, as his father had been.

But after Vice kept W. out of the loop on the Justice Department’s rebellion against Cheney’s illegal warrantless domestic spying program, the relationship was ruptured. It was too late to rein in the feverish vice president, except to tell him he couldn’t bomb a nuclear plant in the Syrian desert.

“Condi was on the wrong side of all those issues,” Cheney rumbled to Cutler.

Cheney still hearts waterboarding. “Are you going to trade the lives of a number of people because you want to preserve your honor?” he asked, his voice dripping with contempt.

“I don’t lie awake at night thinking, gee, what are they going to say about me?” he sums up.

They’re going to say you were a misguided powermonger who, in a paranoid spasm, led this nation into an unthinkable calamity. Sleep on that.

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 7, 2013 - 10:27am PT
I cannot stand Paul Ryan.

Most annoying of all though is that last night I had to agree with him.

First I just assumed he was on a witch hunt and obstruction grandstand.

Of course a President has the authority to use military force against an ongoing attack like 9-11 or Pearl Harbor.

That was not the question though. The question Ryan was asking is whether the president feels he has the legal authority to pre-emptively use military force on American soil. (drone issue is secondary in my mind)

That is a good question an one the President should be forced to answer.

Now I find myself standing with Paul Ryan?... I'm gunna puke and I guess I better take some Ice Tools and screws on down to hell ...

Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Hold a child at gun point, and the cops will kill you

Declare war against your Country, stock pile an arsenal, plan an attack, get hit by a drone.

I don't see a problem

And to say that this just started under Obama is very naive
It all started with Reagan, and Bush put it on steroids.

Should have someone stopped Timothy McVeigh???

Should someone be watching the 1000s of right wing terrorists that want to take on the tyrannical Gov...

Nothing's changed, it's just that the Right Wing Loons have decided to use it as a wedge issue to stink up the place
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2013 - 11:53am PT
That was not the question though. The question Ryan was asking is whether the president feels he has the legal authority to pre-emptively use military force on American soil. (drone issue is secondary in my mind)

That is a good question an one the President should be forced to answer.

Hold on there.

First, this is a legal question, that should be answered by a legal expert. That would not be the President, who would seek advice on the issue, were it necessary.

Second, you've got your Pauls mixed up. I believe the player involved is Rand PAUL, not PAUL Ryan. If you have such a basic thing mixed up, I'd suggest you take a closer look at the issue.

Third, the question that was asked did not have to do with "pre-emptively" doing anything.

details, details, details........

What Paul actually said was:

“I will speak as long as it takes, until the alarm is sounded from coast to coast that our Constitution is important, that your rights to trial by jury are precious, that no American should be killed by a drone on American soil without first being charged with a crime, without first being found to be guilty by a court.”

And my question would be, what trials did the Confederate soldiers have at Pickett's Charge?

This was an action, ordered by the President, killing Americans, by the military, with no trials.

Sorry, I think this horse has left the barn a century ago.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 7, 2013 - 11:53am PT
it was OBUMMER that made the largest contribution to laws against our constitution with the NDAA2013 bill that he threatened to vetow, but signed anyhow. RAND PAUL is 100% correct.

edit: and ask those pilots of the commercial flight in Houston how they felt about that drone in their approach to the airport.!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2013 - 11:57am PT
rong, you keep harping on the NDAA, and you keep refusing to respond to the part that specifically exempts US Citizens.

Are you embarrassed? Or just impaired?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
WASHINGTON — Osama bin Laden’s spokesman and son-in-law has been captured by U.S. intelligence officials, a senior congressman said Thursday, calling it a “very significant victory” in the ongoing fight against al-Qaida.

Rep. Peter King, the former chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, credited the CIA and FBI with catching Sulaiman Abu Ghaith in Jordan within the last week. He said the capture was confirmed to him by U.S. law enforcement officials.

King, R-N.Y., said Ghaith took part in the Sept. 11, 2001, plot against the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

How embarrassing! Obama wastes time and resources tracking down those Al-Qaida guys, when he could be much more effective, like Bush.

Aren't we glad that the Repugnuts are controlling the House, where they can block funding for such crap?

Handy Tea Party guide to new news items:

(1) is the news good?

a) NO -- It's Obama's fault

b) YES - proceed to (2)

(2) News is good

a) OK, the news is good, but its a massive over-reach of constitutional authority, Obama is a (choose one) socialist/dictator

b) Obama had nothing to do with it
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
Senators Vote on NDAA 2103

Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Yea
Ayotte (R-NH), Yea
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Begich (D-AK), Yea
Bennet (D-CO), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Blumenthal (D-CT), Yea
Blunt (R-MO), Yea
Boozman (R-AR), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brown (R-MA), Not Voting
Burr (R-NC), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Yea
Coats (R-IN), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Coons (D-DE), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Not Voting
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Franken (D-MN), Nay
Gillibrand (D-NY), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Hagan (D-NC), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Heller (R-NV), Yea
Hoeven (R-ND), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Isakson (R-GA), Yea
Johanns (R-NE), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Johnson (R-WI), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kirk (R-IL), Not Voting
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Lee (R-UT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
Manchin (D-WV), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Merkley (D-OR), Nay
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Moran (R-KS), Not Voting
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Paul (R-KY), Nay
Portman (R-OH), Yea
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Risch (R-ID), Nay
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Rubio (R-FL), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Nay
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shaheen (D-NH), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Toomey (R-PA), Yea
Udall (D-CO), Yea
Udall (D-NM), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Yea
Warner (D-VA), Yea
Webb (D-VA), Yea
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Yea
Wyden (D-OR), Nay
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:05pm PT
if THEY need DRONES over US SOIL to catch anyone,, we have wasted MASSIVE amounts of monies on DHS employees, LOCAL LEOS and the NAt guard. If they need drones to control any "threats" on our soil, they now treat us as a third world. CRAP ON ALL OF THAT.

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
ask those pilots of the commercial flight in Houston how they felt about that drone in their approach to the airport.!

Um, Rong? That was in New York, JFK. See Ken's point above about "if you can't even get the basic facts correct" etc.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
Overwhelming support for minimum wage: A new Gallup poll finds that 71 percent of Americans support raising the minimum wage to $9 per hour. Even conservatives favor this policy by 54-44, and Republicans favor it by 50-48. It’s yet another issue where the GOP Congressional leadership is out of step even with their own voters.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
no,, it was in HOUSTON..At least the one im talking about..According to the many articles..
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
Public supports gun control: A new Quinnipiac poll confirms yet again that solid to large majorities support Obama’s gun proposals: Eighty eight percent of Americans support universal background checks; and 54 percent support bans on assault weapons and high capacity magazines.
Strikingly, the poll also finds that respondents trust Congressional Republicans slightly more than Obama to handle gun policy, by 44-42, even though they oppose all the policies the public supports. This perhaps is a reminder of what an excellent job the “gun rights” has done in obscuring the true nature of gun control policy goals.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
Just more data that says the Republican Party is working against the People
Against the wishes of the majority
They have become the tyrannical minority that have taken the Nation Hostage

Who could be so stupid to vote for this mafia control
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