Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Messages 32501 - 32520 of total 52606 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:40am PT
Indeed Mono. Im not in a typical situation.. My Freinds for the most are- my Buddy Steve , a manager for carson tahoe hospital out-patient phyical therapy pays over 33%..


edit : quit the back deleting would ya!




Edit: HD you an Kman need to go find a private place to rub each other. It AINT gonna be on my porch.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:43am PT
Ron, exactly. So much pay as you go BS is just a tax by a different name. Americans pay a lower income tax than us but a cost (tax) is a cost regardless for a service from a government.
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:43am PT
Good, you are seeing the light, Ron. Your situation is hardly typical. So it was a stupid comparison.

To pay a total of 33% taxes as an employee is a great situation. It means you are making good money, probably in 200K range. Not middle class.

Look at the tax tables.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:45am PT
President Obama and First Lady appear stunned after first debate

A priceless image. The 1st lady looked on the verge of physically
attacking Romney, some sore loser blue amazon pay back.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/photo-president-obama-and-first-lady-appear-stunned-after-first-debate/article/2509824#.UG3JEJHMJkg

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:46am PT
Mono YOU MADE THAT COMPARISON ,,,.NOT ME...

And Jim, YES a tax by any other name is indeed a TAX. Goes to the same funds as the rest. The FEDS...
monolith

climber
albany,ca
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:46am PT
Im not even "middle class" and my taxes have NOT gone down a bit. nearly 40% of what i make goes to taxes.
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:47am PT
Obama just seemed sort of... tired.

He doesn't have anything new to add. The economy has some serious structural problems, and he just isn't up to the task, offering up more lame stimulus.

He looked like Carter in 1980.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:49am PT
YES MONO,, key word there "MY" and "Im"... Anything else was assumptions not meant.
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:50am PT
President Obama and First Lady appear stunned after first debate

A priceless image. The 1st lady looked on the verge of physically
attacking Romney, some sore loser blue amazon pay back.


I was surprised that even up to the debate polls gave Obama a 57% chance of winning. I was surprised that Romney was not more dominant. I just don't think Obama is a great debater.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:52am PT
You must not have been paying attention last night. He is still cutting the rate by 20%, but making up for it by closing loopholes and cutting deductions.

If you have a business, like Ron, you pay quarterly taxes.

At the end of the year, when you file, you get to claim deductions.

If the tax rate goes down by 20%, you pay less in taxes, every quarter.


Please, correct me where I got any of this wrong.



Now, this is where I need help.

What loopholes will Romney close that will get us back the 20% that we're not collecting? (BTW, this is a test to see if you were paying attention last night, Crack.)
John M

climber
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:53am PT
Fee and permits are not taxes.

I really don't like this argument though I do understand it in some respects. It sounds just like the argument that some make about how many people don't pay income tax because social security isn't a tax. Technically it isn't an income tax, yet it comes out of your income and it can't be avoided.

As far as fees and permits go. I do understand that many businesses have been profitable in the past because of shoddy practices, which has forced the government to raise fees and permits. One example I know of is a family friends oil well clean out business. It use to be highly profitable and still is, but part of that was because they just dumped their chemical waste into holes in the ground, which ended up polluting the local ground water. Once the government cottoned on to that, they started regulating them more and the profits went way down. So I do see the need for regulation and for things like fees and permits.

But I also know that we have gotten a bit crazy in some areas with the regulations, fees, and permits.

I wish that there was a way to find some reasonable balance.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:55am PT
Corniss crowed
President Obama and First Lady appear stunned after first debate

A priceless image. The 1st lady looked on the verge of physically
attacking Romney, some sore loser blue amazon pay back.


HERE LET ME FREEZE FRAME ON A RANDOM MOMENT POST DEBATE WHERE THE OBAMA'S AREN'T MAKING EXPRESSIONS AND THEN ADD A CAPTION
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:56am PT

What loopholes will Romney close that will get us back the 20% that we're not collecting? (BTW, this is a test to see if you were paying attention last night, Crack.)


Hopefully not my beloved mortgage interest deduction (I would rather pay the extra 20% personally). I would accept it though in the interest of "fairness", and deep down, I don't think Government should be doing this kind of social engineering.

Romney will not say what deductions will be cut, and I don't blame him. He would alienate too many voters.

Incidentally, Romney claimed that lowering the rate and cutting deductions (simplifying the tax code) had not been tried before in response to Obama's claim that it had been tried with poor results. But this is exactly what Reagan did in his first term, and the economy performed very well.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:57am PT
Fee and permits are not taxes.


A tax is when the government charges you money. A fee is when the government charges you money. A permit is when the government charges you money. I see a pretty clear distinction.


Crackaddict said
Hopefully not my beloved mortgage interest deduction (I would rather pay the extra 20% personally). I would accept it though in the interest of "fairness", and deep down, I don't think Government should be doing this kind of social engineering.


The government has engineered a middle class in every era there has been a middle class. Democracy, especially in a country the size of the US, cannot survive if there are not institutions that support an educated populace with a certain degree of comfort and security.

The government engineered the agricultural middle class in the early 19th century by giving away piles of land and securing the frontier. Then that failed.

The government then engineered an industrial middle class which has now failed.

The idea that government "shouldn't" have a hand in shaping the middle class of the service age is totally insane. You're buying into a fantasy that Republicans have created where government didn't do anything of value for 200 years and America was created in spite of it.
CrackAddict

Trad climber
Canoga Park, CA
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:57am PT
HERE LET ME FREEZE FRAME ON A RANDOM MOMENT POST DEBATE WHERE THE OBAMA'S AREN'T MAKING EXPRESSIONS AND THEN ADD A CAPTION


Most of the time it looked like someone put Alum crystals in Obama's water.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:58am PT
John, me too! Heres a fine example of how the USFWS used my taxes and fee monies:

The set up a "sting" on a taxidermist in the SE over some PAPER work snaffus they created to arrest a taxidermist over two dry salted TURKEY skins from mexico, and used a black hawk helicopter with a full battle geared team of HS troops to effect the "arrest", which in the end ended up nothing more than a misdemeanor on a paper work technicality brought forth due to sudden changes in importation policies. This -under the obama admin.



edit BAAHAHAHAHA GUD one Crack!
John M

climber
Oct 4, 2012 - 10:59am PT
LOL, that picture of Mrs Obama is classic. It looks like she is going to open up a can of whup az on Romney. You go girl.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 4, 2012 - 11:02am PT
Get rid of all the deductions and make it flat or close to flat. Nobody gets out of paying some percentage, even if it is only 5 or 10%.

Crack, I agree that if we eliminated all personal deductions, our overall tax rate could fall without the government losing tax receipts. That's straightforward if all I have is income from employment (i.e. wages or salaries). If, however, I'm running a business, and my customers paid me, say $1,000,000.00 last year, how much money did I make? I don't know without deducting my expenses. Most of the complexity comes from trying to determine business income.

Incidentally, I'm not completely enamored with eliminating all personal deductions, either, particularly the deduction for mortgage interest. There's a maxim in tax policy that "old taxes are good taxes." When a tax or deduction has been in effect for decades, the economy has adjusted for it. Eliminating the tax or deduction will lead to economic distortions that may take decades to work through the economy.

Ron, I shouldn't be amazed by how much people think they know about your business, but I am. If I listened to the popular press and certain left-of-center commentators, I would conclude that with good enough lawyers and accountants, I could reduce my tax rates to minimal amounts, and anyone who pays more than that doesn't have good advice. That is, simply, untrue. Don't let the turkeys get you down.

John
John M

climber
Oct 4, 2012 - 11:03am PT
This -under the obama admin.

see Ron.. this is the kind of statement that tells people that even though you say you aren't biased, that you actually probably are.

Yes.. it happened under Obama, but I bet you similar things happened under Bush and I bet you that you didn't say.. "it happened under the Bush admin" when it happened. Instead.. you probably, said.. those damn politicians.

Just something to think about.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 4, 2012 - 11:05am PT
Monolith,

I assume that you rent, so you can't write off your mortgage interest. You also probably work for salary or wages, meaning you get taxed at the income tax rate.

I also assume that you make less than 106K per year, so every dime you make is subject to social security. Income over the first 106K isn't subject to social security tax.

I also assume that you don't make your living buying and selling real estate, oil wells, stocks or your stock options.

So you don't have all of your income taxed at the 15% capital gains tax.

That's how Warren Buffet and Mit Romney, and Obama, for that matter, pay far less than the middle class worker who is on salary or wages.

The loopholes that can be closed are the mortgage interest deduction, which would kill the middle class, whose major piggy bank is their house. Capital gains are the main way people make money.

I'm not even going to get started with sales tax, gas tax, and the like.

Personally, I hate capital gains. You can't write them off if you have a loss. You can only write them off against capital losses. It should just be taxed like regular income. The low 15% rate is really just a tax cut for the super high income level.

Some European countries went to a flat tax for everyone, which sounds like it is a tax cut for the rich, but all it does is close all tax preferences for different types of incomes altogether. So everyone pays the same. Which is a tax increase for Warren Buffet and Mit Romney.

I was surprised about the flat tax being fair, but there are years of its history.

Romney isn't telling us which loopholes he is going to close. I seriously doubt he will do away with the capital gains rate. It is exactly how companies like his old one make money.

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