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Messages 6201 - 6220 of total 7240 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 4, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
That reminds me, Wayno;

The Q surface is 17x12.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 4, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
That will get it done. About three skirt steaks at a time. Who is hungry?
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:27am PT
MH couldn't take it anymore :-)

Thanks MH!

Lots of good posts.

Is sacrificial lamb @ gobsmacking wall a play on artificial land?


Wow, goose rock. That woulda been a shame. The Chief is a way more bitchen name for a rock formation.

harryhotdog

Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:50am PT
Why don't we take a page out of Prince's book. After a free ascent, Crap crags would become "the route formally know as crap crags" or Freeway could become Wayfree.

All kidding aside, changing names is somewhat disrespectful to the original ascensionists and the historical value of those names.

The Persian community in North Vancouver is an ethnic group that has certainly enriched our city. They are good business people and since coming here after'79 own a lot of the stores on Lonsdale ave, our main street. Several years ago they went to city council to push to have the name changed to an Iranian name. This is the same thing, a total lack of respect for the existing community that originally named it over one hundred years ago.

Bottom line, respect the people that came before you whether it be rock or road.
Catburglar

Trad climber
Vancouver
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:12am PT
renaming routes it is totally lame, and seems to be more of a Squamish "thing". Other than changing the "East Face of Washinton Column" to "Astroman", I am not aware of any other name changes in Yos. none of the routes which have been freed on EC have been renamed, The FFAists are all bigger than that, and don't need the ego trip.

Hmmm... Golden Gate = The Heart route, El Nino = North America Wall, El Corazan = Son of Heart and Flight of the Albatross, Passage to Freedom = New Dawn, The Prophet = Bad to the Bone and Eagles Way, Secret Passage = Eagles Way and Bad to the Bone.

Re-naming freed aid routes is commonplace and is often more of a necessity in order to keep things clear and concise rather than an effort to disregard the first ascenscionists efforts and contribution. If I freeclimb the trade route of El Cap should i say ``i just freed most of Salathe, except the part where i had to move left into Bermuda Dunes,on pitch 23 i had to detour off of Salathe for a pitch, before the headwall i had to move left and finish up the final pitches of Excaliber``? Or can I please just say I sent the Freerider!!!?

I think on a much smaller scale this is what is going on in Squamish, people aren't going to want to say "today i climbed parts of The Bastille, before the top of the Bastille I moved left into Rock On"

It kind seems to me like the ego trip is coming from your end Hamie.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:31am PT
Careful Catburglar...... those old guys can get a little dangerous when cornered....

MH2

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:41am PT
can I please just say I sent the Freerider!!!?


No. You say, "I did the Free Salathe." Unless there is more than one.

Yeah, that would work. If we were bloodless conformists.
Catburglar

Trad climber
Vancouver
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:48am PT
MH2. I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but if I were to climb the Freerider and claim a free ascent of the Salathe I'd be be wandering into Maestri-Cesen land, the freerider totally avoids the the 5.13 headwall of the the Free Salathe.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:38am PT
Its a bit curious that such a staunch conservative such as MH is loath to accept the long established tradition of renaming routes by the FFA team, then radically proposes his own criteria of dangerously socialist / collectivist committee managed system of governance for the sole purpose of maintaining some semblance of ownership by a washed up old gang of mafioso clinging to thier past heroics of pounding iron ladders up cracks.....

OK I admit thats hitting a little below the belt and its a teeny bit more nuanced than that but lets have a look at Anders list:

route re-naming simply isn't on unless most or all of the following are satisfied:

Community consensus.
Isn't confusing.
Consent of those who made the FA, if feasible.
Route has had few if any ascents.
Route is not considered of any historic or other significance.
Much time has passed, and the route has become overgrown.
A great deal of work was needed to restore the route.
Substantial variations were made.
The route's history and original name and climbers are consistently identified. Simple respect.

I'm not sure if BC Parks will appreciate having this land on their desk so how about we trim it down a bit. If we start with what has worked in the past I think we can keep "Community Consensus" and pretty much throw out the rest - seeing as community consensus makes everything else redundant or at least puts it in proper context.

Thus The Squaw becomes Slahanay, The Chief stays the Chief, Chinaman peak becomes Ha Ling, A Mouth Full of dead Eels becomes DOA, certain particularly spectacular bits of U Wall becomes the Shadow and the Grand stays the Grand.... I mean, how can you improve on the Grand? and anyone who tries likely would not have much success due to community consensus, unless it becomes a bit less grand when the Sword and Split Pillar eventually fall off leaving a hideous crumbling copperhead seam behind ..... which Sonnie Trotter will promptly send, then rename it Smell of Grumpy Old Men Clinging to the Past in a unguarded and probably drunken moment at a psyche ledge party.... then change his mind upon pressure from community consensus.... or maybe not?

I guess we'll only know when the damn thing falls off
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:14am PT
Catburglar you might wanna cough up your real identity before calling out HM.


And Harry, I hear ya about the Iranians but the Burrard Nation might have something to say about Lonsdale Ave as well.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:34am PT
^ ^ ^ ^

Is there an app for that ?
Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:45am PT
Renaming freed aid routes has a long history, not just in Yos but in the "crucible of free climbing" namely Britan

You think Hubble and Mecca take their names from the boring old bolt ladders that climbed thru the overhangs at Ravens Tor?

Doubt it.

When Chris Craggs put up "Free This You Sport Climbing Bastards" and it got freed, the new name "The Bastard" made much more sense.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Who is cat burglar? There's a route at Castle Rock of that name.

Troll-in-training Bruce needs to work on his shtick. Apart from him, we seem largely in agreement that route renaming at Squamish should be discouraged, and when done should have respect, clarity and consensus.

Looking at it another way, there's lots of unclimbed rock at Squamish. Those wanting a personal monument are free to clean it up, climb it, and give it a name - without disrespecting others, and the history. Most such routes may quickly fall into oblivion, given the bell curve. Another issue.

As a sociologist friend puts it, much climber behaviour can be simply explained in terms of adolescent males. Or, as Perry puts it, peeing on the corner posts.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:11am PT
Everything should have proper descriptions like - The north north west corner of the west spur of the west face of the east buttress.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:22am PT
Troll-in-training Bruce needs to work on his shtick. Apart from him, we seem largely in agreement that route renaming at Squamish should be discouraged,

Speak for yourself Anders, not for everybody else. Only half a dozen or so people have commented here, and about half of them seem to believe that route-renaming is sometimes fine. So where do you get the idea that "we seem largely in agreement"? Who is this "we"? (Maybe the Royal We????)

My guess is that most folks would agree that route-renaming should be done with consideration for community consensus. That in general it's not a good idea, but sometimes is fine. But that's just my guess, not my statement about what "we" think.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Sep 5, 2013 - 11:57am PT
which Sonnie Trotter will promptly send, then rename it Smell of Grumpy Old Men Clinging to the Past in a unguarded and probably drunken moment at a psyche ledge party.... then change his mind upon pressure from community consensus.... or maybe not?


Anders, is this in reference to a specific event??






Cat burglar, welcome to ST.
Despite your position on renaming routes(which is just fine) please be aware that Hamie is kinda the man around here & deserves no disrespect for his opinion. Particularly since more than a few of his routes have been either partially or completely reno'd or renamed over the years. Telling him that he's on an ego trip as your first ever post as an anonymous user here makes you appear to be a TIT (troll in training). I hope in the future you will contribute but please leave the comments that will lead to heated exchanges to BK & MH as they are way more entertaining.




Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Sep 5, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Typical lawyerly truth-bending .

Renaming a freed route is fine.

Zombie Roof, not Rat Burger

There, I said it.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Troll in training? I unbolted my training wheels ages ago which is a damn sight more than you can say.

I look at it like fly fishing. For instance, when you know the season is right and the Mighty Hiker has likely returned to the home stream, there are a selection of fly patterns which usually work and with the right presentation you know he'll rise to it.

Same goes for the mighty lesser spotted Braun trout of the upper Merced. Nearly extinct but that just makes the catch so much sweeter.

But you are right about respect. It is proper to ask permission of the FA iron pounders. Say Anders, I forgot to mention - I did this coolio little variation to your "Due dilligence" the other day... also spruced your line up a bit by trimming back the shrubbery..... added a bolt, maybe two.....

I took the liberty of renaming it "Overbearing Pedantics".

Sokay wit you and the Tampster?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
Thank you for nibbling at my ever so lame attempt at trolling - it is most kind of you to have done so, and will surely reinforce my self-esteem. "Every troll gets at least one bite" seems to be the motto.

These vexing matters should be referred to the Bughouse Heights/Hospital Hill/South Ridge/Little Smoke Bluffs/Smokey Bluffs/Smoke Bluffs Morals & Ethics Committee, for an utterly indecisive result.

(Skunk Hollow, being more or less what is now Valleycliffe, omitted.)

We have now returned and climbed the climb formerly known as Slab Alley ("TCFKASA"), including the new indirect stepladder start, and while doing so removed several specks of lichen and some of Bruce's chicken bolts. It was a laborious, tortuous and frightening ascent, and really, our experience was completely different from anyone else's. As a result, a new name seemed apropos. We thought about renaming the route "Monument to Climbers with Big Egos and Wee Willies", but decided instead to call it Slab Alley. Has a nice ring, doesn't it?
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
There's no p in Tamster. I just used the loo.


:-0




Nice note Ryan. Thx.

It's ME who started this latest discussion and despite being called toiletface by David - which I frankly expected - I did ask for no name callin'. I'll add to that "just be nice" and that means you ..... cat burglar.


Special K. Ha.
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