Squamish Photos and Stories

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 6201 - 6220 of total 7717 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Catburglar

Trad climber
Vancouver
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:48am PT
MH2. I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but if I were to climb the Freerider and claim a free ascent of the Salathe I'd be be wandering into Maestri-Cesen land, the freerider totally avoids the the 5.13 headwall of the the Free Salathe.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 11:38am PT
Its a bit curious that such a staunch conservative such as MH is loath to accept the long established tradition of renaming routes by the FFA team, then radically proposes his own criteria of dangerously socialist / collectivist committee managed system of governance for the sole purpose of maintaining some semblance of ownership by a washed up old gang of mafioso clinging to thier past heroics of pounding iron ladders up cracks.....

OK I admit thats hitting a little below the belt and its a teeny bit more nuanced than that but lets have a look at Anders list:

route re-naming simply isn't on unless most or all of the following are satisfied:

Community consensus.
Isn't confusing.
Consent of those who made the FA, if feasible.
Route has had few if any ascents.
Route is not considered of any historic or other significance.
Much time has passed, and the route has become overgrown.
A great deal of work was needed to restore the route.
Substantial variations were made.
The route's history and original name and climbers are consistently identified. Simple respect.

I'm not sure if BC Parks will appreciate having this land on their desk so how about we trim it down a bit. If we start with what has worked in the past I think we can keep "Community Consensus" and pretty much throw out the rest - seeing as community consensus makes everything else redundant or at least puts it in proper context.

Thus The Squaw becomes Slahanay, The Chief stays the Chief, Chinaman peak becomes Ha Ling, A Mouth Full of dead Eels becomes DOA, certain particularly spectacular bits of U Wall becomes the Shadow and the Grand stays the Grand.... I mean, how can you improve on the Grand? and anyone who tries likely would not have much success due to community consensus, unless it becomes a bit less grand when the Sword and Split Pillar eventually fall off leaving a hideous crumbling copperhead seam behind ..... which Sonnie Trotter will promptly send, then rename it Smell of Grumpy Old Men Clinging to the Past in a unguarded and probably drunken moment at a psyche ledge party.... then change his mind upon pressure from community consensus.... or maybe not?

I guess we'll only know when the damn thing falls off
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
Catburglar you might wanna cough up your real identity before calling out HM.


And Harry, I hear ya about the Iranians but the Burrard Nation might have something to say about Lonsdale Ave as well.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
^ ^ ^ ^

Is there an app for that ?
Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Sep 5, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
Renaming freed aid routes has a long history, not just in Yos but in the "crucible of free climbing" namely Britan

You think Hubble and Mecca take their names from the boring old bolt ladders that climbed thru the overhangs at Ravens Tor?

Doubt it.

When Chris Craggs put up "Free This You Sport Climbing Bastards" and it got freed, the new name "The Bastard" made much more sense.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 5, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
Who is cat burglar? There's a route at Castle Rock of that name.

Troll-in-training Bruce needs to work on his shtick. Apart from him, we seem largely in agreement that route renaming at Squamish should be discouraged, and when done should have respect, clarity and consensus.

Looking at it another way, there's lots of unclimbed rock at Squamish. Those wanting a personal monument are free to clean it up, climb it, and give it a name - without disrespecting others, and the history. Most such routes may quickly fall into oblivion, given the bell curve. Another issue.

As a sociologist friend puts it, much climber behaviour can be simply explained in terms of adolescent males. Or, as Perry puts it, peeing on the corner posts.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
Everything should have proper descriptions like - The north north west corner of the west spur of the west face of the east buttress.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
Troll-in-training Bruce needs to work on his shtick. Apart from him, we seem largely in agreement that route renaming at Squamish should be discouraged,

Speak for yourself Anders, not for everybody else. Only half a dozen or so people have commented here, and about half of them seem to believe that route-renaming is sometimes fine. So where do you get the idea that "we seem largely in agreement"? Who is this "we"? (Maybe the Royal We????)

My guess is that most folks would agree that route-renaming should be done with consideration for community consensus. That in general it's not a good idea, but sometimes is fine. But that's just my guess, not my statement about what "we" think.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
which Sonnie Trotter will promptly send, then rename it Smell of Grumpy Old Men Clinging to the Past in a unguarded and probably drunken moment at a psyche ledge party.... then change his mind upon pressure from community consensus.... or maybe not?


Anders, is this in reference to a specific event??






Cat burglar, welcome to ST.
Despite your position on renaming routes(which is just fine) please be aware that Hamie is kinda the man around here & deserves no disrespect for his opinion. Particularly since more than a few of his routes have been either partially or completely reno'd or renamed over the years. Telling him that he's on an ego trip as your first ever post as an anonymous user here makes you appear to be a TIT (troll in training). I hope in the future you will contribute but please leave the comments that will lead to heated exchanges to BK & MH as they are way more entertaining.




Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Sep 5, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
Typical lawyerly truth-bending .

Renaming a freed route is fine.

Zombie Roof, not Rat Burger

There, I said it.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
Troll in training? I unbolted my training wheels ages ago which is a damn sight more than you can say.

I look at it like fly fishing. For instance, when you know the season is right and the Mighty Hiker has likely returned to the home stream, there are a selection of fly patterns which usually work and with the right presentation you know he'll rise to it.

Same goes for the mighty lesser spotted Braun trout of the upper Merced. Nearly extinct but that just makes the catch so much sweeter.

But you are right about respect. It is proper to ask permission of the FA iron pounders. Say Anders, I forgot to mention - I did this coolio little variation to your "Due dilligence" the other day... also spruced your line up a bit by trimming back the shrubbery..... added a bolt, maybe two.....

I took the liberty of renaming it "Overbearing Pedantics".

Sokay wit you and the Tampster?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
Thank you for nibbling at my ever so lame attempt at trolling - it is most kind of you to have done so, and will surely reinforce my self-esteem. "Every troll gets at least one bite" seems to be the motto.

These vexing matters should be referred to the Bughouse Heights/Hospital Hill/South Ridge/Little Smoke Bluffs/Smokey Bluffs/Smoke Bluffs Morals & Ethics Committee, for an utterly indecisive result.

(Skunk Hollow, being more or less what is now Valleycliffe, omitted.)

We have now returned and climbed the climb formerly known as Slab Alley ("TCFKASA"), including the new indirect stepladder start, and while doing so removed several specks of lichen and some of Bruce's chicken bolts. It was a laborious, tortuous and frightening ascent, and really, our experience was completely different from anyone else's. As a result, a new name seemed apropos. We thought about renaming the route "Monument to Climbers with Big Egos and Wee Willies", but decided instead to call it Slab Alley. Has a nice ring, doesn't it?
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
There's no p in Tamster. I just used the loo.


:-0




Nice note Ryan. Thx.

It's ME who started this latest discussion and despite being called toiletface by David - which I frankly expected - I did ask for no name callin'. I'll add to that "just be nice" and that means you ..... cat burglar.


Special K. Ha.
MH2

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
Good on Catburglar for entertaining the notion that I might be joking. However, notice that Free Salathe is not, in the beautifully accommodating English language, the same as Salathe free.

If it were up to me, I would just say that I had climbed X route and then let the beneficiary of that news wonder if I had soloed, freed, hang-dogged, or aided the original or any variation. If the listener knew me they would know what was up and if they didn't know me they are free to think what they want. Or they could ask a question or 2. The only blasphemy is to claim a better effort than you gave. Why we care I am not sure but we do. Joking is fine by me, but only works on people who can guess the truth.

edit: maybe catburglar is catbirdseat from cc.com
Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
catbirdseat aka catturdeat couldn't troll even if you spotted him a bridge and three goats
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
Catburglar you might wanna cough up your real identity


Uh, somehow I doubt a cat burgler will fall for that one, Inspector Clouseau...

But never mind that. Breaking News - a spectacular new publication has just hit the stores, a guide book to the Squaw or what some more enlightened consensus types refer to as Slahanay. It was written by Barley's dog Splodge, perhaps at the behest of his master Robin who lacks Splodges computer skills. Regardless, the editorial influence of Robin is unmistakable and makes this work an instant collectors item so go snap one up. As an added hook, all proceeds go to Squamish SAR.

But really you buy it for the content which is pure Barley, hardly surprising as he has held an only grudgingly shared claim to the Squaw for thirty odd years to our benefit...... staples and Barley chains not withstanding. In fact if he insists on calling it the Squaw so be it - who's dumb enough to argue with him anyway? And speaking of arguing, much of the content should add spice to our recent tit for tat about route names and ownership and so on. Plenty of ammo within these pages. Maybe Robin ( or Splodge) can do a book signing (and a reading?) for an admiring crowd at the psyche ledge party. Perhaps a panel discussion with Dave Lane or Jimmy Scar. Or a cage fight. Either way it could be entertaining. At the risk of copyright violation, here are a few teasers:

Well sprinkled with photos, many of then scantily clad ladies, like th...
Well sprinkled with photos, many of then scantily clad ladies, like this fellow.
Credit: Bruce Kay

Lots of rare historical references such as this record of the inaugura...
Lots of rare historical references such as this record of the inaugural "March of the Kitchen
Utensils". I recognize the muscle bound beast on the right... anybody else?
Credit: Bruce Kay

More history &#40;anders take note&#41; with various contentious nomen...
More history (anders take note) with various contentious nomenclature interpretations plus a treatise on the original Pipeline epic featuring our own Tricouni and TV antenae.
Credit: Bruce Kay

Splodge is clearly marking his &#40; or Robins&#41; territory here.  I...
Splodge is clearly marking his ( or Robins) territory here. I've heard a lot about Top Shelf these days, but only when I bump into Robin ( and Splodge) do you hear anything about "Dihedral land". Match point goes to Robin and Splodge.
Credit: Bruce Kay

After a long section of yadda route description stuff we get to the re...
After a long section of yadda route description stuff we get to the real goods - an explanation and defense of Splodge and Robins various anchor techniques. Note the chapter title.
Credit: Bruce Kay

Well it turns out the staples are more than just coathangers and bubbl...
Well it turns out the staples are more than just coathangers and bubblegum after all!
Credit: Bruce Kay

If after all that you remain unconvinced, Robin &#40;and Splodge&#41; ...
If after all that you remain unconvinced, Robin (and Splodge) magnanimously provide advice on how NOT to chop staples if you care for the rock at all.
Credit: Bruce Kay

If there is any doubt about the amount of agent orange and napalm that...
If there is any doubt about the amount of agent orange and napalm that goes into creating these masterpieces, he touches on that too
Credit: Bruce Kay

if after all splodge &#40;and Robins&#41; efforts you're still seeing ...
if after all splodge (and Robins) efforts you're still seeing red then read this and realize what its all about - having fun for as long as you can hack it.
Credit: Bruce Kay
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
Bruce!!


I can't stop laughing!



WTF can i get one of them?!?!?


harryhotdog

Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Holly cow this has got the posts going!

I think a new name might be warranted If somebody spends the enormous amount of time, effort and money cleaning a mostly new route that includes parts of an overgrown and forgotten line. If it's just freeing some section on a well travelled mostly free route then I think the original name should stand.

Tami, you have a point there.

hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Sep 5, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
Well, lots to read tonight. My head is hurting.

Catburglar, welcome to the Taco, if you really are new. It's always fascinating to read another pov. I am particularly grateful for your info that the Salathe has now become "the trade route" on EC. I am so far stuck in the past that I still thought it was The Nose. Also thanks for all the info on the various combinations, variations and permutations which you listed. I had no idea. It all makes a fellow, esp an old one, quite dizzy.

You are quite correct that I have a big ego. I have always enjoyed the challenge and excitement of putting up new routes, and still get some satisfaction from seeing my name and the occasional photo in guidebooks, updates and the occasional maggie. Incidentally, I finished a new route yesterday, #53 since I bought a drill 7 years ago. I counted them today, just for you. How's that for ego and bragging? [One advantage of finishing a new route is that I always treat myself to a bottle of wine.]

One question for you. Are you as sneaky as your name implies?

Sorry Tami, I tried to be nice, but I'm still working at it. Note to self: "Think nice".

Cheers to Tami, Ryan and MH.
MH2

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
"If there is any doubt about..."

I wish I had my doubt back. At least about how they clean stuff. And maybe about the Squaw in general. I find doubt to be health-preserving.
Messages 6201 - 6220 of total 7717 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews