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Messages 6181 - 6200 of total 8034 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 4, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
You people up there are so quaint!
But you'd be more entertaining if you weren't so damn civil.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:21am PT
I'm also quite unenthusiastic about renaming of routes, other than in exceptional circumstances. There's something of a spectrum, but to my mind, route re-naming simply isn't on unless most or all of the following are satisfied:

 Community consensus.
 Isn't confusing.
 Consent of those who made the FA, if feasible.
 Route has had few if any ascents.
 Route is not considered of any historic or other significance.
 Much time has passed, and the route has become overgrown.
 A great deal of work was needed to restore the route.
 Substantial variations were made.
 The route's history and original name and climbers are consistently identified. Simple respect.

Too often many of these aren't met, and those involved don't come off well.

(I'll omit comment on routes that had early, transitional names, and were soon given permanent names, with the consent of the FA team. For example, "Willmott's", now named Snake, and "Willmott-Strachan Chimney" - guess which that one was?)

There's a long history of accidental and deliberate re-naming at Squamish, starting perhaps with Fred's 1959 attempt to rename the Chief "Goose Rock". No one knows why. Some other notable examples:

Artificial Land: Inadvertently renamed Sentry Box sometime between the 1962 Baldwin guide, and the 1967 Woodsworth guide.

South Arete: The original name for Squamish Buttress, now the name for a route that wasn't part of the original buttress route.

North Arete: The local name for it, but Fred insisted it be called Angel's Crest. As it was his route, his call. A bit of poetry, from Fred.

Cacodemon Crack: The first half of what Fred later called Unfinished Symphony.

Bastille: Renamed Rock On, for a route that covers much of the same ground, plus at the top intersects with an unrecorded route named Pioneer, plus the original line of Squamish Buttress. I don't know if the Rock On party knew their first pitches were on Bastille/Basteal.

University Wall: It made sense that the FFA party kept the name, although they did two significant variations (<10% of the total). A significant, well-established route. But when they returned and freed the original line, and renamed those two pitches only (#2 and #5), it just confused me. (Probably no one has ever freed the entire original line of U Wall.)

Black Bug's Blood: It probably wasn't climbed much, but was an established route. The so-called "One Scoop" route uses 75% or more the same line, plus added a large number of bolts. Without any mention of the history.

Freeway: Notably, Dean and Randy didn't purport to rename this, when they cleaned it up and completely freed it ten years after the FA. Neither did those who freed Cannabis Wall a few years ago rename it. Genius Loci is an exception, in that most of the route is independent of Ten Years After.

The list of "renamed" routes is now quite long, even allowing that some are largely new routes, use and tidy up part of an existing one, then give the whole thing a new name. Particularly on the Apron, the Papoose, and other lower-angle bits. Modern equipment and techniques allow climbers to "see" routes that may not have been feasible in the past. You end up with a patchwork grid.

There may be a place for some renaming of routes, but IMHO much less than some have attempted.

Speaking of which, Jeff and Hamish Thomson, Tami, and I recently did a new indirect start to Slab Alley. We didn't "rename" Slab Alley - that would be beyond rude, even with all the work I put into restoring that climb. And that's what I'd like to suggest - if you must, just restore existing routes, maybe with variations. (Our guidebooks now even give credit for same.) Enough of this renaming nonsense. We're thinking of naming the new variation "Due Diligence - FTG".

As for the left side of Yosemite Pinnacle, even I got up it (sort of) without the chicken bolt. Why in the world would anyone add bolts to Clean Corner? Enough of this "plaisir" climbing crap. A short, steep slippery slope, often promoted by those with motives other than protecting the experience of climbing.
gf

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:34am PT
Anders, so good to have you back at the campfire; most pleased to have proof positive that the reports you were just resting were spot on. I'm with you on banishing this renaming thing, lets fire up the birdwalk bandwagon and get with the times rather than tilting at the Moody Blues windmill.
yours in revisionism
gf
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:43am PT
I'm with you on banishing this renaming thing, lets fire up the birdwalk bandwagon and get with the times rather than tilting at the Moody Blues windmill.
yours in revisionism


Huh????
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 5, 2013 - 01:47am PT
lets fire up the birdwalk bandwagon and get with the times rather than tilting at the Moody Blues windmill.

I had a class in college where we analyzed stuff like that to figure out what it really meant but that was a long time ago.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:08am PT
Moody Blues - 1970 - Question of balance. Yes, I think Greg is proposing a retro bolting and renaming of a particular slab haul on the upper Apron.... Not so fast buddy. Mustn't avoid due process and all but worry not - tribal council is just next week

Now what was Anders going on aboot? Something about nefarious dark forces slinking about threatening no less than complete and utter destruction of the experience of climbing? Damn! Sounds serious.
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:11am PT
Artificial Land: Inadvertently renamed Sentry Box sometime between the 1962 Baldwin guide, and the 1967 Woodsworth guide.

Don't look at me! I'm not responsible for that renaming!

I saw no reason to rename Crap Crags (Europa, I think). Why Europa??? What was wrong with Crap Crags???

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:17am PT
What's wrong with Crap Crags????


Totally. Such a title is eternal, like Freeway..... or Danish Dirt
hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:19am PT
I have been pondering this renaming conundrum.......and have come up with 2 suggestions:

1. Anyone who does a new route in the alpine is then entitled to rename the WHOLE MOUNTAIN, at least until the next new route is established.

2. It's time to rename Squamish. There are already 2 possible choices, Squish and Squampton. Any other ideas?
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:22am PT
2. It's time to rename Squamish. There are already 2 possible choices, Squish and Squampton. Any other ideas?

How about Goose Rock? That has a nice ring to it.....
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:25am PT
O.K., O.K., I got it. We get more yanks up there and they start renaming all the routes with their favorite dribble. Whoa. Stop me.
Relic

Social climber
Vancouver, BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:30am PT
I can't wait for some good old yankee carne asada on Psyche Ledge this weekend. See y'all at The Goose!
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:34am PT
There are already 2 possible choices, Squish and Squampton. Any other ideas?


Well I've always kinda liked Newport. Or Skunk Hollow.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:43am PT
That reminds me, Wayno;

The Q surface is 17x12.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 5, 2013 - 02:55am PT
That will get it done. About three skirt steaks at a time. Who is hungry?
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:27am PT
MH couldn't take it anymore :-)

Thanks MH!

Lots of good posts.

Is sacrificial lamb @ gobsmacking wall a play on artificial land?


Wow, goose rock. That woulda been a shame. The Chief is a way more bitchen name for a rock formation.

harryhotdog

Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:50am PT
Why don't we take a page out of Prince's book. After a free ascent, Crap crags would become "the route formally know as crap crags" or Freeway could become Wayfree.

All kidding aside, changing names is somewhat disrespectful to the original ascensionists and the historical value of those names.

The Persian community in North Vancouver is an ethnic group that has certainly enriched our city. They are good business people and since coming here after'79 own a lot of the stores on Lonsdale ave, our main street. Several years ago they went to city council to push to have the name changed to an Iranian name. This is the same thing, a total lack of respect for the existing community that originally named it over one hundred years ago.

Bottom line, respect the people that came before you whether it be rock or road.
Catburglar

Trad climber
Vancouver
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:12am PT
renaming routes it is totally lame, and seems to be more of a Squamish "thing". Other than changing the "East Face of Washinton Column" to "Astroman", I am not aware of any other name changes in Yos. none of the routes which have been freed on EC have been renamed, The FFAists are all bigger than that, and don't need the ego trip.

Hmmm... Golden Gate = The Heart route, El Nino = North America Wall, El Corazan = Son of Heart and Flight of the Albatross, Passage to Freedom = New Dawn, The Prophet = Bad to the Bone and Eagles Way, Secret Passage = Eagles Way and Bad to the Bone.

Re-naming freed aid routes is commonplace and is often more of a necessity in order to keep things clear and concise rather than an effort to disregard the first ascenscionists efforts and contribution. If I freeclimb the trade route of El Cap should i say ``i just freed most of Salathe, except the part where i had to move left into Bermuda Dunes,on pitch 23 i had to detour off of Salathe for a pitch, before the headwall i had to move left and finish up the final pitches of Excaliber``? Or can I please just say I sent the Freerider!!!?

I think on a much smaller scale this is what is going on in Squamish, people aren't going to want to say "today i climbed parts of The Bastille, before the top of the Bastille I moved left into Rock On"

It kind seems to me like the ego trip is coming from your end Hamie.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:31am PT
Careful Catburglar...... those old guys can get a little dangerous when cornered....

MH2

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:41am PT
can I please just say I sent the Freerider!!!?


No. You say, "I did the Free Salathe." Unless there is more than one.

Yeah, that would work. If we were bloodless conformists.
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