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Messages 6001 - 6020 of total 7724 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 8, 2013 - 08:43am PT
My condolences to the family of the victim. That's sad news.

Just got back from a first visit to Squamish. It's an interesting town. The rock is great. The views from the top are fantastic. Mt. Garibaldi beckons like a siren.

We hiked to the top of the second summit. There are definitely places where you could get into big trouble.
MH2

climber
Aug 8, 2013 - 09:43am PT
Looks like Agonal, Ryan.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Aug 8, 2013 - 11:55am PT
^^ I agree ^^^
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
I thought that would be easy for u guys!

Brownie dancing
Brownie dancing
Credit: RyanD
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Aug 16, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
I was going to put this on the Gondola thread, but it seems to have vanished...

This was written by Frank Baumann and is reposted with his permission. I'm not trying to stir up any old wasp nests that may have been generated in the Gondola thread; it's for info only.

Dave Southam, the District Manager at the Squamish office of the Ministry of Forests, Lands, and Natural Resource Operations has informed me that the public road across Crown Land from the Stawamus River into the Shannon Creek watershed will be gated at a point behind the Stawamus Chief where the road was blocked for many years by rockfall. You will be able to walk or bike from there to the Mt. Habrich, Sky Pilot, Petgill Lake, and Goat Ridge areas- but you won't be able to drive a vehicle up there as was the case for many, many years.

Dave also confirmed that this is being done to help preserve the commercial interests of the Sea to Sky Gondola gang, who don't want the public to be able to just drive up there and use their facilities at the top station of the gondola.

I believe the Sea to Sky Gondola gang should not be allowed to restrict access to a public road and Crown Land. If they want to protect their commercial interests, they should do what most other private companies are required to do: erect a fence and place signs along the boundary of their tenure area to keep non-paying people out.

If you feel, as I do, that this move to restrict access to Crown Land sets a dangerous precedent, especially given the long term historic use of this beautiful Alpine watershed by mountaineers and hikers, then take a moment to express your concerns to Dave at the following address:

Dave Southam, District Manager, Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Sea to Sky District Suite 101-42000 Loggers Lane Squamish BC V8B 0H3

Telephone: 604 898-2100 Facsimile: 604 898-2191 E-Mail: Forests.SquamishDistrictOffice@gov.bc.ca

You might also want to send a copy of your letter to the Minister responsible at the following address:

The Honourable Steve Thomson PO Box 9049 STN PROV GOVT VICTORIA, BC V8W 9E2

Telephone: 250 387-6240 Fax: 250 387-1040 Email: FLNR.Minister@gov.bc.ca

Of course, it's a lost cause, and exactly what I and others predicted.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 16, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
Thanks Tricouni. I'm not too surprised by this either.
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Aug 16, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
Tough call on that one, I was under the impression that after the kids rolled off that cliff the forest folks put the boulder blockade up to stop people from going up in cars. When I asked Jayson Faulkner about it he said that at worse the gate would be at the old boulder blockade but with a parking lot...at best it would be at or near the memorial.

So in that sense we never had access and we were never going to...furthermore for quite a while they gated the road right at the turn off for Mamquam to stop people from going up the Stawamus...so its really tough to buy Franks argument even if I agree that we should be able to drive to the Habrich trail head as we could many years before.


Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Aug 16, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
So are you saying that it's ok for forestry to allow a private company exclusive access to what was a public road??
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Aug 16, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
I remember driving my 4x4 to the landing beneath Habrich in '89.

Was the gate put on the road to keep local teenidiots from driving up there and dying? If so, it puts a bit of a kink into Frank's argument.

But , honestly, people die on roads every day and those roads aren't gated.

So if the road is fixed up then there should be public access if it's a public road.

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
Agreed Tami. There should be a fence for their tenure, but the road should remain open.

Nice pics Ryan! Thanks for all your contributions here lately man. Visions of places I dream to hang. Truly inspirational.

Thanks to everyone else who contributes here as well. This thread is amazing because of the people who choose to hang here.

My condolences to friends and family of the unfortunate hiker. Quite an unfortunate tragedy.

MH2

climber
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
Back at you, Big Mike. This thread has done wonders in giving Squamish a presence on Supertopo.

Could traffic on that road really be much of a threat to the commercial interests of the gondola operation? Would the washrooms be over-used? It seems to me that only a very marginal business would be hurt by people arriving up there by car rather than gondola.
Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
Forestry companies get to gate logging roads all the time?
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
NBD on the gated road, it'll only be like that for a year until they go out of biz & we get to bail them out :-)


Thanks Mike, hope ur doin good buddy! Call me soon if ur down.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
They way I have always looked at it is this: The worst case scenario - gated at the old blockade - is still superior to the way it was, which was a typical water barred, unmaintained and constantly eroded fully 4WD track always teetering on the edge of impassable washout, which of course describes any coastal forestry road these days which isn't active logging. From now on the road is to be maintained and I'm sure a little sweet talking could push the gate further.

I also think that there is another likely reason for gating, which is security and in fact that is what I was told. Nothing new there. Many roads are gated and I believe the companies are actually obliged somehow to provide a key for those who request access. Maybe a similar process could occur here? Most of us here are familiar with this process and we know the issue of security is no joke. There has been enough logging machinery totaled by Surrey idiots over the years to make Fukashima look like kids in a sand box. I really doubt its some nefarious scheme to squeeze a few dimes out of a bunch of typical skin flint mountaineers.

Anyway, right now its a buffed AWD sort of thing almost as far as we used to get back in the eighties, which is about 11 km. The gate opens at 0700 and closes at 1630 which gives you just enough time for Habrich or Sky pilot, or you could park at the gate at 9 km just to be sure.
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
Forestry companies get to gate logging roads all the time?

Yes, during active logging, for safety and to protect the expensive logging equipment from getting shot up. Usually, after they finish, the gates are remomved. (There have been exceptions.)

In this case, if it's too unsafe for the public to drive up, it's probably too unsafe for the gondola workers. The solution then is to fix the road, make it safe, and allow everyone up.

It was the company that chose the landing spot, not forestry. I have no doubt that they chose that spot so that they could drive to the top.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
Its open and generally has been all summer. There has been occasional closures for blasting etc but they are accommodating tons of visitors up the road by what I could see. Watch out for Rock trucks in the last couple of kms!

Oplo - do you know the precise obligations for public access on controlled roads?


By the way, something of interest for the Milkman fans -

http://thetyee.ca/ArtsAndCulture/2013/08/15/Worlds-Toughest-Milkman/
Rolfr

Social climber
North Vancouver BC
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:13am PT
Ok this sounds like a good issue for the Access society. Access to the Anderson River Peaks always involved obtaining the key from Cattermole Logging, the same for Mt Urquhart.

Get busy folks, and contact John Brody ,jbrodie@access-society.ca or Dave Jones djones@access-society.ca ( no not Davy the old Squamish slab climber)

If you really want access, people need to get involved now and start negotiations, perhaps a key available for CASBC members, with a blanket liability waiver.

I am now the CASBC area rep for the interior and we have our own hornets nest of brewing access issues, my approach is to be proactive on potential issues, don't wait until the gate is up and FLNR has established a management plan.

FLNR district land managers understand politics and financial clout, there are Squamish climbers financial impact studies to make local climbers credible stakeholders and there is also evidence of historical land use. If the area is designate a Wilderness Management Area, (doubtful but possible) the FLNR manager has unlimited powers under the Parks Act to restrict access and designate land use.

Anders isnít around to carry the ball on this one , its time for the old school crowd and the new kids to step up and get involved. There is enough talent on this forum to get her done.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:33am PT
Getting the key was part of the planning for traveling logging roads to the mountains. If a key was available, it meant the road was passable. No key needed meant no road as well by way of rock slide, washout, Alder party or need for initiation into the Devil's Club.

Nothing new about commerce and keys to the alpine.
Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Aug 17, 2013 - 11:15am PT
Basically, a logging road isn't a maintained public road, and a gate on a logging road doesn't prevent access to Crown land, as you can still walk or bike it.

That said, gates mostly go in to protect equipment from the yahoo brigade, and nowadays a gate doesn't do much to restrict quads and dirt bikes who usually build trail around an obstacle within 15 minutes of it going up.
So to avoid that you pretty much have to put a gate where there's a cliff in the cutslope and a big drop off below... or in the middle of a bridge
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 17, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Basically, a logging road isn't a maintained public road

Thanks for clearing that up - I always wondered about that. So the providing of keys has always been through good will rather than obligation. What then is Frank going on about? He should know this stuff as well as anyone.

Regardless, Rolf is right. The Gondola gang (as frank put it) seem to be interested in at least the appearance of good will so if anyone wants to push the gate up as high as possible I'd suggest some cordial discussions. I can volunteer that but personally I think I'll just spring for a annual pass or barring that, the odd day pass. The only problem I see with this (other than poverty) is how early public can load which is the usual problem from a climbers stand point. Maybe they could consider an "early climbers bin" like they do in Cham.

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