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Hoser

climber
vancouver
Aug 16, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
Tough call on that one, I was under the impression that after the kids rolled off that cliff the forest folks put the boulder blockade up to stop people from going up in cars. When I asked Jayson Faulkner about it he said that at worse the gate would be at the old boulder blockade but with a parking lot...at best it would be at or near the memorial.

So in that sense we never had access and we were never going to...furthermore for quite a while they gated the road right at the turn off for Mamquam to stop people from going up the Stawamus...so its really tough to buy Franks argument even if I agree that we should be able to drive to the Habrich trail head as we could many years before.


Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Aug 16, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
So are you saying that it's ok for forestry to allow a private company exclusive access to what was a public road??
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Aug 16, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
I remember driving my 4x4 to the landing beneath Habrich in '89.

Was the gate put on the road to keep local teenidiots from driving up there and dying? If so, it puts a bit of a kink into Frank's argument.

But , honestly, people die on roads every day and those roads aren't gated.

So if the road is fixed up then there should be public access if it's a public road.

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
Agreed Tami. There should be a fence for their tenure, but the road should remain open.

Nice pics Ryan! Thanks for all your contributions here lately man. Visions of places I dream to hang. Truly inspirational.

Thanks to everyone else who contributes here as well. This thread is amazing because of the people who choose to hang here.

My condolences to friends and family of the unfortunate hiker. Quite an unfortunate tragedy.

MH2

climber
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
Back at you, Big Mike. This thread has done wonders in giving Squamish a presence on Supertopo.

Could traffic on that road really be much of a threat to the commercial interests of the gondola operation? Would the washrooms be over-used? It seems to me that only a very marginal business would be hurt by people arriving up there by car rather than gondola.
Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
Forestry companies get to gate logging roads all the time?
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
NBD on the gated road, it'll only be like that for a year until they go out of biz & we get to bail them out :-)


Thanks Mike, hope ur doin good buddy! Call me soon if ur down.
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
Forestry companies get to gate logging roads all the time?

Yes, during active logging, for safety and to protect the expensive logging equipment from getting shot up. Usually, after they finish, the gates are remomved. (There have been exceptions.)

In this case, if it's too unsafe for the public to drive up, it's probably too unsafe for the gondola workers. The solution then is to fix the road, make it safe, and allow everyone up.

It was the company that chose the landing spot, not forestry. I have no doubt that they chose that spot so that they could drive to the top.

Rolfr

Social climber
North Vancouver BC
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:13am PT
Ok this sounds like a good issue for the Access society. Access to the Anderson River Peaks always involved obtaining the key from Cattermole Logging, the same for Mt Urquhart.

Get busy folks, and contact John Brody ,jbrodie@access-society.ca or Dave Jones djones@access-society.ca ( no not Davy the old Squamish slab climber)

If you really want access, people need to get involved now and start negotiations, perhaps a key available for CASBC members, with a blanket liability waiver.

I am now the CASBC area rep for the interior and we have our own hornets nest of brewing access issues, my approach is to be proactive on potential issues, don't wait until the gate is up and FLNR has established a management plan.

FLNR district land managers understand politics and financial clout, there are Squamish climbers financial impact studies to make local climbers credible stakeholders and there is also evidence of historical land use. If the area is designate a Wilderness Management Area, (doubtful but possible) the FLNR manager has unlimited powers under the Parks Act to restrict access and designate land use.

Anders isn’t around to carry the ball on this one , its time for the old school crowd and the new kids to step up and get involved. There is enough talent on this forum to get her done.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:33am PT
Getting the key was part of the planning for traveling logging roads to the mountains. If a key was available, it meant the road was passable. No key needed meant no road as well by way of rock slide, washout, Alder party or need for initiation into the Devil's Club.

Nothing new about commerce and keys to the alpine.
Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Aug 17, 2013 - 11:15am PT
Basically, a logging road isn't a maintained public road, and a gate on a logging road doesn't prevent access to Crown land, as you can still walk or bike it.

That said, gates mostly go in to protect equipment from the yahoo brigade, and nowadays a gate doesn't do much to restrict quads and dirt bikes who usually build trail around an obstacle within 15 minutes of it going up.
So to avoid that you pretty much have to put a gate where there's a cliff in the cutslope and a big drop off below... or in the middle of a bridge
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 17, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
Who paid for the construction of the road in question in the first place? Was it us? The faithful old taxpayers? I think I remember reading that was the case on the old gondy thread. What right would we have to access it? Same right we have to protect class A provincial parks so future generations can enjoy them in their natural state for perpetuity i guess.


Some good rainy day reading.


http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1783675&tn=0&mr=0
harryhotdog

Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
Aug 17, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
Even when the road is blocked at the bottom it's not that big of a deal. I arrived at the gate early one morning all bummed that it was locked. My plan was Sky Pilot and I was trying to think of a last minute alternative as I wasn't interested in adding that slog. Eventually I just decided to go for it on my mountain bike and the lower part went very quickly with only some minor pushing of the bike and the descent was awesome.

I always wanted to invent a 5lb fold up bike that you could roll down the logging roads with and save your knees.
Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Aug 17, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
Posted on Fb by Friends of the Chief:

A message from the responsible official in the Ministry of Forests:

"• The status of the road will essentially be the same as it's been for approx. the last 20 years.

• Yes the S2S gondola has the proper authority to install a gate. A gate has been approved to be installed on the FSR which restricts vehicular access at the same location the public has been able to drive to. The S2S gondola is building a small parking area that will be located near the gate to accommodate people heading into the back country. Public access is being maintained and there is nothing preventing people from walking/cycling up the road past the gate.

• I think the overall condition of the road and access into the areas you describe will actually be improved. I have been told that the improvements to the road are providing for increased access to popular rock climbing routes.

• One of the factors considered before approving the gate was that the S2S gondola is bringing significant investment into our community and they were concerned about having unrestricted vehicle traffic driving up to their upper station while guests were paying to get there from the bottom. The installation of the gate was approved to allow them to get their business concept up and running. The effectiveness/requirement of a gate may be looked at in the future once the business has had time to become established."

Contact:

Dave Southam, District Manager,
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations
Sea to Sky District
Suite 101-42000 Loggers Lane
Squamish BC
V8B 0H3

Telephone: 604 898-2100
Facsimile: 604 898-2191
E-Mail: Forests.SquamishDistrictOffice@gov.bc.ca

Steve Thomson
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations
PO Box 9049
STN PROV GOVT
VICTORIA, BC
V8W 9E2

Telephone: 250 387-6240
Fax: 250 387-1040
Email: FLNR.Minister@gov.bc.ca
gf

climber
Aug 17, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
There is an interesting intersection of topics on this thread at present; the gate issue and the david boswell link Mr Kay was kind enough to provide (thanks bruce!). Which begs the question, what would Reid do? I'm thinking he'd take a similar approach as to to when he crash landed his milk truck in the swimming pool...
MH2

climber
Aug 17, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
Reid was a straight-ahead type. There seem to me to be at least 3 loosely connected thoughts, here:

One of the factors considered before approving the gate was that the S2S gondola is bringing significant investment into our community and they were concerned about having unrestricted vehicle traffic driving up to their upper station while guests were paying to get there from the bottom.


Although it is considerate of S2S to protect their guests from being told, "We just drove up."
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 17, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
Haha good one Bruce, your point is valid. BTW I got a Mazda, not a Prius :-)


Edit- why doesn't climbing content spark interest in this thread but local politics we have collectively beaten to death brings everyone outta the woodwork? We've already been thru all this, no?
gf

climber
Aug 17, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
Ryan, what reid would do under these circumstances is of vital importance to any serious student of squamish climbing as anyone who climbs at the milkman wall can attest.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
Thanks MH2 and Ryand. Hope to hang out soon!

Sorry to interrupt this discussion, but i thought i'd post a little climbing porn.

I've been out a bit lately. A couple weeks ago we went up to Split Beaver.

Heather wanted to get on Heavenly Ladder, 5.9

Heather in the slot.

She took a couple whips trying to get up this section.

Fun fingers


And a little stemming.


I top roped it after and the wide got the best of me. I got up the rig, but just barely and it wore me down. Bigtime.

Took this shot three weeks ago when Kyle and Nina were kind enough to ropegun Sandra and i up High mountain woody and Stephanie's tears. Nina also put up slap and tickle which killed me. The left foot work on the diagonal traverse was quite difficult with the sensory issues i still have.

Kyle at the Malemute


Kyle finally got his Redpoint on the beav! He sent it in style!!

Kyle Jammin the Beaver


Navigating the wide


I managed to jam halfway up this sucker before the skin on the back of my right hand started to grid away and i thought better of it. Tape next time, for sure!
gf

climber
Aug 17, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
mike -did you follow the smaill guidebook instructions on split beaver?
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