Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
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Jan 10, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
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who said anything about untrammeled wilderness? You called it industrial, which only shows that you don't have a clue. The Whole Blackcomb glacier drainage has no mechanization in it. You will hear nothing but muted and distant happy voices which perhaps you take exception to. Sure its all tracked out but so is Cerise creek on a good day. The Blackcomb glacier area is a very unique and special area that acts on a number of levels as a buffer or transition to the "more Wildernessy" Spearhead.
It is particularly special because it offers a real taste of quasi backcountry to quite a huge cross section of society. They absolutely love it and it dosn't cost them a grand per day.
Climbing on the spire is just a bit like climbing on the Eiger, listening to distant cow bells and happy skiers. No its not wilderness but neither is squamish.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 10, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
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I preferred climbing and skiing in that area before it was developed. The fact that the land was later taken out of Garibaldi Park for private development without any real public process still ƃuıʞɔnɟ rankles.
I admit that I have tried the Blackcomb lifts. Once.
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Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
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Jan 10, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
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how did you do that flip upside down thing?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 10, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
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No its not wilderness but neither is squamish
Understatement of the year award for that one. Squamish is pretty much top-of-the heap for industrial-ambiance climbing. Been a long time since I've been in the country above and behind Whistler and Blackcomb, so I can't comment on that, but anybody who loves Squamish can hardly be bothered by any kind of pollution -- noise, human, industrial, whatever.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
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Sure its all tracked out
Yes the areas that are accessible from the t bar but if you're willing to venture a little further there are plenty of amazing lines to ride in that valley that rarely get hit.
You can have the most amazing run of your life, while you look at tracked out runs across the valley.
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hamish f
Social climber
squamish
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Jan 10, 2013 - 07:24pm PT
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It must be winter because the entertainment factor of channel S is brimming. When it's an arctic outflow, you're allowed double portions of Special Kay each day.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
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sʎnƃ ʇı ǝlƃooƃ
;)
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jan 10, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
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Sounds like Big Mike & Anders have joined anonymous, they are the only organization with the cyber abilities to do such crazy things.
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Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
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Jan 10, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
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look anders, I understand your sentimental pining for the fiords, but thats exactly what it is - sentimentality. Whistler stopped being something you'd recognize ages ago. Thats just what happens under the ticking clock and burgeoning population. As you well know the only real issue is HOW it changes. I know I use to have a vested interest in that change because I got to blow the piss out of it every now and then but I really think anyone with a sound grasp of the facts would draw the same conclusions. It was instantly obvious that without active control of Blackcomb glacier there would be an untenable public safety problem. No matter what nefarious processes resulted in Blackcombs juicy acquisition the net result was pretty much a winner once al the dust had settled.
It was a dictate of topography as much as anything.
As per the ownership status, it still belongs to you and me via BC Parks. W/B opperates there under a permit which at least technically can be revoked, althuogh its hard to imagine why. The reason there are no lifts there is for this very reason.
Anyway, if you really want to "get away from it all" the McBride range is just around the corner, and if thats to busy go to Snowcap lake. Either way its all easier for you to get there because of those ski lifts.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
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I thought you were their st rep Ryan? ;)
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 10, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
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Yes, I've been to the McBride Range. On foot. Sometime must scan and post slides thereof.
The process whereby Whistler/Blackcomb took significant chunks out of Garibaldi Park, not just the Blackcomb Glacier but much more, began in the early 1970s. If we allowed ski areas to remove land from parks based on real or feigned claims of "public safety", we wouldn't have any parks. They remove the land to maximize their development, i.e. profit. Don't kid yourself.
Pretending that Blackcomb Glacier is still a provincial park in any real sense is absurd. It's hardly managed for conservation values, and I rather doubt that BC Parks has much say in what goes on there.
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Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
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Anders I swear you are nuts . You are special needs Anders. I don't know why i get the special handle. What you are saying is that for some ideological imperative Whistler should still be the little bohunk squat that it was with some rattly fixed grips barely making it to treeline. There are other real world factors such as topography that influence things. Profit too. Even the demands and wishes of society. Sure BC Parks has some guiding principles and in my opinion they should include wilderness values even in a urban setting like squamish or front range of the Spearhead and in fact they do. But is that it? Yes it is in the MacBride but to impose such a nonsensical imperative on either ski areas or the buffer zones of Bl glacier or Flute is simply -how would you put it - absurd. Every hectare of BC Park is not by ideological writ of god to be left untouched. Most is but some aint.
If you had it your way the big bail out back in the eighties wouldn't have happened and the dump would still be a dump. I'm sure you, others and maybe myself would prefer that but it just means that the demand for a big ski hill would have gone somewhere else, likely in a worse place. What you don't seem to get is that a lot of things really come together to create a socio / economic success here that simply could not have happened somewhere else. Sure as hell not up at Hemlock!
For sure the process is corrupted by power. So focus on the process. Demand transparency and accountability. But if you even appear to be a dyed in the wool old crusty BCMCer constantly moaning about "my" mountains you'll never get anywhere with anybody. That is precisely that polarization that everyone hates but dosn't know what to do about. Even those stinking idiot right wingers have some values that a decent human can agree with. Same goes with those obnoxious lift skiers. Even bloody sledders or heli skiers god curse their souls to hell.
Fact is things are divied up pretty good, especially if those nice kind hearted heli skiers can see it in their hearts to give back a little.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
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Is there some reason they couldn't have developed say Rainbow Mountain - outside the park - instead? Admittedly, when Whistler was first developed and opened in 1965/66, having a ski area adjacent to a park was seen as appropriate - although they wouldn't then remove land from the park. That cam in the 1970s, and up to 1991. But when they wanted to expand in the later 1970s, why couldn't they have done so on Rainbow instead?
Sure, downhill skiing fits a bit better in or beside a park than say strip mining or drag racing. But shouldn't the first question always be "is there somewhere reasonable outside the park where this can be done?"
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Fish Boy
Social climber
Squeamish
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
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Paul, Mike, other people wanting to catch up...wanna do it at the Spew Pub since my house is really messy and I can't be shagged putting things away for another week at least.
I'll be home from work around 6.30. Meet after 7?
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Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
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Fair question. I think after polling a panel of experts you would find that the answer is that Rainbow was inferior to the point of sucking bad. In fact, Blackcomb proved to some degree that Whistler wasn't the best first choice. Maybe Calahagn might have worked out. But look at it this way. Do you think when they first drew the park boundary that they had totally nailed it and that particular grove of yellow cedars absolutley could not bear to be chopped up for the viability of garibaldi park to survive?
Its like the gondola. You look at the thing, you see no problem concerning the intrinsic value being diminished, or at least not unduly considering the benefits, so you say green light. Rainbow dosn't have the topography.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
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Is there any protected area which you consider off-limits to development? If so, why? Or must money always have its way?
a dyed in the wool old crusty BCMCer Those annoying people who we can thank for there being a park in the first place, you mean? Sort of like your dad?
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harryhotdog
Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 10, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
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The only vegetation I see in that pic is on your face Drew,brave lad for posting that. Now how about some of you Jim B back in the day wearing your coke bottle glasses?
This is a great vid,enjoy http://vimeo.com/57013156
I heard a rumour that the 5000th poster gets a free pair of rock shoes from Big Mike,size 18.
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Tami
Social climber
Canada
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Jan 10, 2013 - 10:22pm PT
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Use those size 18s as waterskis
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Jan 10, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
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Bruce said "process" Beavis, hhhuuugggghhhh,hhhuuuggghh....
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