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Messages 4921 - 4940 of total 8241 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
sʎnƃ ʇı ǝlƃooƃ

;)
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jan 10, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
Sounds like Big Mike & Anders have joined anonymous, they are the only organization with the cyber abilities to do such crazy things.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 10, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
look anders, I understand your sentimental pining for the fiords, but thats exactly what it is - sentimentality. Whistler stopped being something you'd recognize ages ago. Thats just what happens under the ticking clock and burgeoning population. As you well know the only real issue is HOW it changes. I know I use to have a vested interest in that change because I got to blow the piss out of it every now and then but I really think anyone with a sound grasp of the facts would draw the same conclusions. It was instantly obvious that without active control of Blackcomb glacier there would be an untenable public safety problem. No matter what nefarious processes resulted in Blackcombs juicy acquisition the net result was pretty much a winner once al the dust had settled.
It was a dictate of topography as much as anything.

As per the ownership status, it still belongs to you and me via BC Parks. W/B opperates there under a permit which at least technically can be revoked, althuogh its hard to imagine why. The reason there are no lifts there is for this very reason.

Anyway, if you really want to "get away from it all" the McBride range is just around the corner, and if thats to busy go to Snowcap lake. Either way its all easier for you to get there because of those ski lifts.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
I thought you were their st rep Ryan? ;)
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 10, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
Yes, I've been to the McBride Range. On foot. Sometime must scan and post slides thereof.

The process whereby Whistler/Blackcomb took significant chunks out of Garibaldi Park, not just the Blackcomb Glacier but much more, began in the early 1970s. If we allowed ski areas to remove land from parks based on real or feigned claims of "public safety", we wouldn't have any parks. They remove the land to maximize their development, i.e. profit. Don't kid yourself.

Pretending that Blackcomb Glacier is still a provincial park in any real sense is absurd. It's hardly managed for conservation values, and I rather doubt that BC Parks has much say in what goes on there.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 11, 2013 - 12:04am PT
Anders I swear you are nuts . You are special needs Anders. I don't know why i get the special handle. What you are saying is that for some ideological imperative Whistler should still be the little bohunk squat that it was with some rattly fixed grips barely making it to treeline. There are other real world factors such as topography that influence things. Profit too. Even the demands and wishes of society. Sure BC Parks has some guiding principles and in my opinion they should include wilderness values even in a urban setting like squamish or front range of the Spearhead and in fact they do. But is that it? Yes it is in the MacBride but to impose such a nonsensical imperative on either ski areas or the buffer zones of Bl glacier or Flute is simply -how would you put it - absurd. Every hectare of BC Park is not by ideological writ of god to be left untouched. Most is but some aint.

If you had it your way the big bail out back in the eighties wouldn't have happened and the dump would still be a dump. I'm sure you, others and maybe myself would prefer that but it just means that the demand for a big ski hill would have gone somewhere else, likely in a worse place. What you don't seem to get is that a lot of things really come together to create a socio / economic success here that simply could not have happened somewhere else. Sure as hell not up at Hemlock!

For sure the process is corrupted by power. So focus on the process. Demand transparency and accountability. But if you even appear to be a dyed in the wool old crusty BCMCer constantly moaning about "my" mountains you'll never get anywhere with anybody. That is precisely that polarization that everyone hates but dosn't know what to do about. Even those stinking idiot right wingers have some values that a decent human can agree with. Same goes with those obnoxious lift skiers. Even bloody sledders or heli skiers god curse their souls to hell.

Fact is things are divied up pretty good, especially if those nice kind hearted heli skiers can see it in their hearts to give back a little.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 11, 2013 - 12:22am PT
Is there some reason they couldn't have developed say Rainbow Mountain - outside the park - instead? Admittedly, when Whistler was first developed and opened in 1965/66, having a ski area adjacent to a park was seen as appropriate - although they wouldn't then remove land from the park. That cam in the 1970s, and up to 1991. But when they wanted to expand in the later 1970s, why couldn't they have done so on Rainbow instead?

Sure, downhill skiing fits a bit better in or beside a park than say strip mining or drag racing. But shouldn't the first question always be "is there somewhere reasonable outside the park where this can be done?"
Fish Boy

Social climber
Squeamish
Jan 11, 2013 - 12:32am PT
Paul, Mike, other people wanting to catch up...wanna do it at the Spew Pub since my house is really messy and I can't be shagged putting things away for another week at least.

I'll be home from work around 6.30. Meet after 7?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 11, 2013 - 12:32am PT
Fair question. I think after polling a panel of experts you would find that the answer is that Rainbow was inferior to the point of sucking bad. In fact, Blackcomb proved to some degree that Whistler wasn't the best first choice. Maybe Calahagn might have worked out. But look at it this way. Do you think when they first drew the park boundary that they had totally nailed it and that particular grove of yellow cedars absolutley could not bear to be chopped up for the viability of garibaldi park to survive?

Its like the gondola. You look at the thing, you see no problem concerning the intrinsic value being diminished, or at least not unduly considering the benefits, so you say green light. Rainbow dosn't have the topography.

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 11, 2013 - 12:53am PT
Is there any protected area which you consider off-limits to development? If so, why? Or must money always have its way?

a dyed in the wool old crusty BCMCer Those annoying people who we can thank for there being a park in the first place, you mean? Sort of like your dad?
harryhotdog

Social climber
north vancouver, B.C.
Jan 11, 2013 - 12:56am PT
The only vegetation I see in that pic is on your face Drew,brave lad for posting that. Now how about some of you Jim B back in the day wearing your coke bottle glasses?

This is a great vid,enjoy http://vimeo.com/57013156
I heard a rumour that the 5000th poster gets a free pair of rock shoes from Big Mike,size 18.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 11, 2013 - 01:22am PT
Use those size 18s as waterskis
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Jan 11, 2013 - 01:24am PT
Bruce said "process" Beavis, hhhuuugggghhhh,hhhuuuggghh....
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2013 - 01:35am PT
Anders. Bruce is right, Rainbow isn't a ski resort. The terrain just isn't there + it's our watershed man! There was a rumour that al reign had plan going for it but it never came out.

As to the extension and the politics around it you can always count on the government to do the right thing for their pocketbook. It is unfortunate, but we see it time and time again.

It is fortunate however for skiers and snowboarders, who realistically would be using the terrain anyways. Remember the Flute expansion only came after those snowboarders from Vancouver knocked off a huge chunk of cornice with one of the guys riding it as it fell. It ended up splashed all over the front page with pictures and everything.

If its accessible with a short hike and you can ride back to the lift, then it should be avalanche controlled because idiots go anyways and they know nothing.

A couple seasons back, whistler Blackcomb altered its early season avalanche control policies. They decided not to perform AC on spanky's or harmony ridge or any "area boundary" which would in normal conditions be considered inbounds. This policy resulted in at least two avalanche deaths, one in spanky's and one in secret chute aka negative chutes on harmony. The worst part about the one in harmony was my friends and I had been to that exact chute the week before and it went on us. My friend cut it and all the snow left the slope. We went around and he had to down climb with his skis on. We warned patrol that area was sketchy and suggested they do AC before opening it again. They didn't.

Point is, it might not be what you wanted, but it was inevitable and necessary.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 11, 2013 - 01:37am PT
No not like my Dad. He was a BCMCer, not a crusty fatuous turd BCMCer. There is a difference and I'd know - I've met them all.

Funny you should mention him. He was an Engineer who while wrking with Bob Maclellan designed and installed the lifts up at Cypress, in a BC Park I do believe, along with some other lifts and trams here and there. I actually heard him and saw letters to the ed regarding opposition to the garibaldi park boundary issue but I can't recall the exact issue for him. However I do remember us all going up to ski at whistler more than once and if memory serves he never once elected to stay in the car all day moaning to himself.

An obvious choice for a more nuanced application of wilderness purity would be the interface zones between urban mayhem and tranquil peacefull wilderness. The skihills for instance or Shannon Falls. The 98% of the rest of Garibaldi park likely deserves the more pure treatment.

I know what you're getting at - firm rules mean no alterations for the wrong reasons. But they also mean no alterations for the right reasons. How about the proposed power line right of way through pinecone Burke? How about the proposed tunnel? Thats way out there wilderness and god knows sooner or later we need to replace fossil fuels...... are you going to just have a hissy fit and say no just because the rule book says so? Or should there be a reasoned and accountable process to think it through and weigh the cost benefit?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 11, 2013 - 01:48am PT
jesus Tami get a grip.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2013 - 02:53am PT
What did I miss?
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Jan 11, 2013 - 02:55am PT
jesus Tami get a grip.

????????????????
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2013 - 03:01am PT
Harry does anyone really want my old shoes? ;)
Relic

Social climber
Vancouver, BC
Jan 11, 2013 - 03:09am PT
I'm so confused. say wha?




Yur all on acid.
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