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browniephoto
climber
bc
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Mar 13, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
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yea, that's why we keep yo momma off the ropes ryan haha
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
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LOL!! ;) hey now. Ryan's momma makes some damn fine ribs!!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 14, 2013 - 02:25am PT
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sorry, it's my monster workout night (for me) 2 hrs of gym crack climbing at Planet Granite Sunnyvale followed by 1.5 hrs of Vinyasa Flow yoga (which is doing great things for me...) so I'm toast right now...
Richard has the treatise:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1820554&msg=1820970#msg1820970
His recommended calculator:
http://jt512.dyndns.org/impactcalc
your weight? lets take 170 lbs
if the rope modulus is 14kN m/m
600lb force is 2.67 kN
that's a force factor of 0.15, so if you are out 100 ft and you fall a total of 15 ft you experience a 600lb force...
but I'm terrible at getting this right... especially late...
a 600lb climber falling the same distance feels a 6.91 kN force, the anchor a 13.8 kN force, which is getting up there into equipment failure mode.
If you're a Big Guy/Gal, you might not want to take a leader fall...
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Mar 14, 2013 - 02:41am PT
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Cool stuff Ed!
Hey, leave my momma outta this brownie or brownliephoto or whoever you are! I'll report you to the mods! What's next? A youtube video satire of my latest failures?!?!
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2013 - 02:48am PT
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Hahahaha..., Ed, thank you!! I was actually just kidding about getting you to do the calculation since I never expected you to even see this!! So a 220lb climber like myself would definitely want to avoid a leader fall on a single staple.
I believe this is a single pitch climb which would eliminate a leader fall ever occurring on said anchor unless someone decided to pitch off with slack or something.
Is there a top rope situation that could theoretically pull said staple? Maybe a beginner belayer with a ton of slack out, and a climber my weight?
Please sir, only if you have the time and interest.
Thanks again!
Edit sounds like even with a two staple anchor and a short fall factor two situation I could generate enough force to blow said anchor. Good enough reason for me. Kill all staples!!!
Edit2 What's next? A youtube video satire of my latest failures?!?!
LMAOROF it's comedy hour over here!!! ;)
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Mar 14, 2013 - 03:15am PT
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The question is? Where did this 600lb figure come from?
I'm sure RBs anchors can deal with more than that, I remember someone telling me his passed brother was like an anchor engineer or something?
I wouldn't worry about it too much there boys- It's probably on top of some 10+ "classic featureless SB wasteland" anyways that only Kieran or Luke would climb:-) The route will probably get chopped, green or retroed in the next 2 yrs. maybe all 3. Nature has its own ways of dealing with RB routes. That said lets go tie a massive something to that thing with a chunk of static & throw it off! BTW Big Mike, often much more force in a slack TR fall than a soft leader fall so ur probably gonna die for sure TRn single staples but that's a debate for another thread! Have a good night!
Edit- here's a link about RBs bro, would be weird if he had the nickname "anchorman" in the engineering world &his bro is up here putting in dangerous hardware??
http://www.sbmasystems.com/page5.html
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2013 - 03:18am PT
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Ahhh the north walls... More!!
I miss the chief.. And the mountains!!!
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browniephoto
climber
bc
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Mar 14, 2013 - 04:14am PT
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i apologize for laughin at yer momma ryan..
but back to the other topic..
A single anything for an anchor cannot be defined as "safe", we do it with trees all the time and yea they're pretty friggin bomber but I do remember a story about a tree blowing over on the smoke bluff connection. The twist was that the belayer and his partner were attached to a similar specimen. Now, I won't just go and stop using trees because of this story. I have confidence in my judgement of a satisfactory belay tree and i'm sure the aforementioned party had the same feel for what was a bomber anchor. The evidence to support this being the survival of the two climbers. It's a different story when some fresh-out-of-the-gym-weekend-warrior comes up and starts clipping bolts until he/she finds himself at this anchor. She/he may not have the experience to recognize the yergonnadie factor, potentially putting themselves in a theoretical situation in which they would have to call SAR who would then direct them to the local taxi business who could take them the 3 blocks to the hospital. In fact, I do believe this topic has already been chewed to a cud and all i've done is blow off some post-work steam by act of reiterating an age old ethics issue...
good night
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Mar 14, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
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No worries Kieran, you're fighting the good fight. I just like to know the facts, like how do you know these staples break at 600lbs?? Did someone legitimately pull test one in the lab or is this just the word on the street from those that compete with RB for FAs of all the ledgy 10+ slabs left in the bluffs? I'm no staples advocate as they are ugly & unconventional & generally get put in stupid places between classic cracks & bleached 1 star routes but besides the obvious "you're different, we don't like you" factor, what proof do we have of their safety???
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Mar 14, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
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Just a thought - why not just place a regular bolt adjacent to the staple? You get your redundant anchor points and you dont risk botching the chop.
This is probably the best practice re: single staple anchors
Have a great trip Bruce!
Fvcker.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
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Ryan, I have no proof, I have always just known it wasn't standard practice.
This is good enough reason for me though.
Staples are what I use to hold papers together with. Grouting rebar into concrete is a practice that has been discredited for at least 25 years when it was involved in structural integrity concerning homes people live in.
Thanks for that Jim. I will happily take experienced construction advice over the unknown.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 16, 2013 - 12:29am PT
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Ha brownie. One of those two or guys in the blown-down tree story was me. Details tomorrow when I am not typing on this phone.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Mar 16, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
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Haha nice vids boys! Cam Ungirth lol
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 16, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
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So about that tree belay. Story was in one of the Squamish threads Mighty Wanker deleted when he left ST in a huff.
He and I were climbing the Smoke Bluff Connection (Late 70s? Early 80s?). It was really windy, but otherwise a fine day for climbing. I led the first pitch (Mosquito), he led the second (Phlegmish Dance). When I got to his belay -- which was a small but solid-looking tree -- he was not entirely happy with life. He pointed to a similar tree, lying on the ground a few meters away, and said "It just blew over while I was sitting here."
No more tree belays for us that day.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 16, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
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Very nice vids boys!
Kieran yours are getting quite artistic indeed!
Ghost, funny story. Thanks ;)
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2013 - 04:41am PT
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30 seconds of heaven!! Thanks Kieran!!!
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Rolfr
Social climber
North Vancouver BC
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Mar 18, 2013 - 01:32am PT
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a 600lb climber falling the same distance feels a 6.91 kN force, the anchor a 13.8 kN force, which is getting up there into equipment failure mode.
Ed, I don't think i've ever met a 600lb climber, post picks please.
Last week, climbed a few routes at JT where the crux was protected by a RURP and the chossy start was protected by Knife Blades, thoroughly enjoyable! Sometimes spice is nice. ;-)
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