Hardest Woodson Offwidths

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Messages 1 - 105 of total 105 in this topic
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 3, 2006 - 02:35pm PT
Although this used to be my old stomping grounds, I've only been back a couple of times since the early '80s. I'm curious as to what climbers think of the relative hardness of the offwidth climbs there. I still haven't even seen Vice Principal's Office or PHd. How do these stack up with, say, Mother Superior?
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Mar 3, 2006 - 03:30pm PT
Bump

I never went farther than mother Superior and, uh, What's his names crack. But it could be worth a trip.
matisse

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2006 - 03:33pm PT
(Disclaimer: I am old and feeble and I can't remember shit)

PhD is not an offwidth, so I can't compare it to mother superior. It's also not that hard, if I can get my too fat to sport climb ass up it, although in the interests of full disclosure I have to admit that I used the finger pocket of shame.

maybe I'm just confused...wanders off mumbling and drooling...
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2006 - 03:35pm PT
the vice principal's office does not have any OW on it. wide fist is a big as it gets, then it steadily narrows down to thin hands.

climbed as an OW, undertow is much harder than mother superior. so is boulder 13 -- another roof offwidth. I've heard some say that greg's offwidth, although short, may be the contender for the hardest OW at woodson.
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2006 - 03:45pm PT
That's interesting bvb. I can't remember ever not being able to do Gregs offwidth (aka Cricket's Chimney), which has never been hard for me. I actually fist jam Boulder 13. As to undertow, which I've never tried, how would you do it if you don't offwidth?

I guess I'll have to look at my San Diego Guidebook (Kennedy) again. I thought for sure that PhD and Vice Principal's Office were offwidth. I'm pretty sure that Piggot did both.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2006 - 04:12pm PT
undertow has an offset in the crack, so you can undercling it, but you're soloing...there's no way to stop and get pro in. here's a picture of rick piggot on it:


you can do boulder 13 without any leavitation manuevers or chicken wings?? you must have HUGE hands! by the time i get to the lip i've got baggy fists, then i flip around and get a foot in in over the lip, thrutch up on that using stacks, then get my knee in there...
matisse

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2006 - 04:19pm PT
PhD is a sharp semi detached flake thats a very positive layback to some fun thin face moves past 2 bolts* with a "magically" appearing mono.


(*I've never led it -only done it on TR)
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2006 - 04:24pm PT
Wow! Cool shot. I'm going to try to get out there over Christmas (still have lots of family in SD County). By the way, seeing Rick in this shot, I am reminded of a great crack called Seal Rock in Escondido (Rick did the FA). I think it may start off as an offwidth, but goes quickly to fist then hands. An outstanding 55 foot(?) overhanging crack. Ever do it?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2006 - 04:38pm PT
hey...i just realized who you are. no WONDER greg's offwidth was always easy for you. so you actually named it "cricket's chimmney?" never heard that one. when the master cylinder made his trip over from spain 'couple months ago, he mentioned you were living in colorado now.

finally, it all makes sense......

back to offwidths -- i know couple people who had all the woodson offwiths pretty dialed, but greg's OW always gave them a pretty hard time. so there you go.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2006 - 04:40pm PT
yeah, i did the backside of seal rock with cilley sometime in the 70's. i remember that you could cheat your way past some sections using face holds, but mostly you had to stuff yourself in there and "git 'er done!"
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2006 - 04:56pm PT
A little Woodson history. Actually, I didn't name it Cricket's Chimney. Tom Gibson's younger brother, Jim, could chimney the thing back when he was about 12. That's how it got it's name. It must just be a good size for me. I'm sure you probably know that Boulder 13 got it's name from the first bouldering contest at Woodson. I remember Werner Landry telling me that nobody was gonna be able to do it. (He couldn't and gave it the highest rating - 13). By far the hardest offwidth for me at Woodson was Mother Superior (arm-barring).

A little off topic, but since I have the attention of some offwidth guys, has anyone ever done Air Voyage in the Black Canyon? I've always wondered how this stacks up with other offwidths. It's rated 5.12-. In the early '90s, I thought it was pretty easy. Cool though, in that the big pitch is the 10th.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:07pm PT
was that the same bouldering contest where bachar did the FA of california night?
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:08pm PT
Wow, those bring back memories (I think). One summer I was recovering from a broken leg and used to hang with Rick P. a lot and got tons of good bouldering in at Woodson. Every time Rick would do a new problem (daily), he'd call me up and we'd hook up at Woodson and I'd thrash around on the thing. The only name I remember is Silk Banana--which isn't a crack but an undercling to a face sequence, and this was on of his easier ones. I wish I'd known Rick earlier (like early 70s Stonemaser days) because we could have used his help at Suicide and Tahquitz.

JL
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2006 - 05:24pm PT
bvb. I don't think Bachar first did California Night in a bouldering contest. I actually won the first two contests at Woodson (Boulder 13 won the first one for me). That was before the big boys entered the fray.

Largo. I didn't realize that you spent a good stint climbing at Woodson. I remember the Silk Banana alright. I'd be surprized if anyone else has done that - only a guy with 48 inch legs like Rick could ever hope to do it. Rick was incredible at just about all facets of climbing.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:33pm PT
ah. the way i heard the story (but it's probably just another one of those "stories...") is that califonia night was unclimbed at the time, and werner stuck it on the list and bachar bagged it. i'm pretty sure i even wrote something to that effect in a climbing magazine article. need a better fact checker...
crotch

climber
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:44pm PT
Is Seal Rock just N. of Escondido and W. of the 15?

When was the last Woodson contest? With the PBC gone, maybe it's time for a revival.
Hootervillian

climber
back at Zak's
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:46pm PT
I am reminded of a great crack called Seal Rock in Escondido


i think your talkin about what we used to call 'bear and cub' rock. slightly overhangin OW, but with usable face features. was a single quarter incher uptop when i was there.



addit: an i think they call it 'mesa' rock now.

sitting up above Escondido Country Club.
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2006 - 05:47pm PT
You know, you might be right about Bachar. I'm vaguely remembering Rick Piggot doing Hear My Train a Comin' in the same contest. It would have had to be the third or later - and one that I didn't enter for some reason. I can't remember for sure the years of the first two - 1975 and 1976 would be my best guess.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Mar 3, 2006 - 11:29pm PT
Great stuff! how have I missed undertow?

I think Greg's cricket's OW IS some kind of a magical size thing. I onsighted it and have always been able to do it. Even once when I was there for a contest (Ca 88-90?) when I was up all night the night before, did a bunch of problems and then failed on Mother Superior ( I'd saved IT for my ace in the hole; I'd onsighted it, done it at least a dozen times before, etc [pride comes before the fall, or whatever that is] I still had no trouble on the cricket/greg. climbing is weird sometimes.

I have to stack like a banshee AND squack like a chicken on #`13
mtwoodsonguide

Big Wall climber
San Diego
Mar 3, 2006 - 11:56pm PT
Yo, this is pretty cool. Undertow is by far the hardest. It's pretty rediculous. I'll take you old timers there or to any of the other ow's, just let me know.
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2006 - 10:48am PT
With respect to Boulder 13, I can't remember doing it except during that bouldering contest. That house was constructed right near it in like 1976, and it seems to me that it is on their property. Can you climb there without permission?

I did do it without any true offwidth moves - kinda feels like cheating. I just made my fist as big as possible (by sticking my bent thumb out) for the last two or three moves.

So far from the responses to this thread, it would seem that Undertow, Gregs Crack (or whatever), Boulder 13, and MS are the contenders. I can think of about 4 other offwidths that are at least 5.10. Damn, Vedauwoo must have 200 of 'em.

mtwoodsonguide - maybe I will look you up when I'm down there. I don't know any climbers from that way any more.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 4, 2006 - 11:48am PT
Cruel and Unusual Punishment

My core group of friends in my church HS youth group in Poway were very competitve. We would challenge the rest of the group in activities we were good at. One of them was into competitive indoor Volleyball and spanked all of us. The youth minister was a very good alpine skier and spanked all of us at Big Bear and Mammoth. Then it was my turn and I spanked all of them (including me) on Boulder 13, Mt. Woodson. I told them this was a typical Woodson climb. I sand bagged them before we even got out of the car. I think I won. I spanked every single one of us. This was before the house was built.

Photo by GHS/Realm of Light

As far as I know Boulder 13 is not on the property of the home owners, but you do have to skirt around now to get there. I need to revisit that climb too.

Greg what was the year(s) of the first Woodson contests and who was there? My first contest was the one at Magnolia Boulders, in about '78?
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Mar 4, 2006 - 01:15pm PT
yeah, greg I don't know how much time you've spend up at @ Vedauwoo since living in golden, but that's the place for weird o.w probs. I think you know scarpelli (he's the one that told me about your generator mishap)get him to give you the tour He know more strange things up there than the rest of us can imagine.

most are unnamed, but;
University of Mars
nat's
Some new thing called 8oz is supposed to be the uber-off
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2006 - 04:08pm PT
That first climbing contest at Woodson...and I think it was the first one ever in So Cal was held, I think, in 1975 but it could have been 1974. I won an 11 mm rope back when I don't think I owned one. Like I said earlier, Werner Landry organized it.

Yeah, I know Scarpelli, Jaybro - my hat's off to a superior wide crack climber. Clean Dan introduced us and would refer to us as the offwidth king of ca and offwidth king of wy. I am going to make a point of having him show me around after I get myself recovered and back in shape. I think I still have a Lucille in me in spite of the approaching fitty thing.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Mar 4, 2006 - 04:11pm PT
Too funny! And, All roads lead to clean Dan.

I know you do! Fidy is just a number.
John Vawter

Social climber
San Diego
Mar 4, 2006 - 05:57pm PT
Greg:

If I recall correctly, the first "Great Western Bouldering Contest" was at Mission Gorge in 1972, and was organized by Tom Compare, owner operator of A Striving After Wind, the climbing shop in PB. I think there was a climb off between Rick and Werner (?) at Trash Boulder. Pretty sure Rick won the rope.

Next year's was at Santee, October 29, 1973, to be exact. I have a few photos, but no scanner. I think this was the first one Werner organized, or he and Tom did it together. Weren't you at the Santee contest Greg? I thought you and Rick were in the finals with Dennis and me, and Mike Wise, a few others, seven in all. I wore my RR's and went from last to first by flashing the Bullet Hole face. A local kid won the rope on that squeeze chimney/ow problem just uphill from the Light Bulb.

I don't remember what years it was held at Woodson. I was a roving judge at the one at Magnolia in 1979 (?).
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2006 - 06:46pm PT
OK. I give up. Every single date-related thing that I've stated in ST is open to suspicion because I can't remember sh#@$t! I just ran across some old climbing rag that clearly had my Lost Arrow Chimney climb at 1978, not 1979, as I stated on another thread. Oh, well.

I DO know Werner that organized the first Woodson contest that I was in. I Do know my name. I DO know that I am. Unfortunately, that still leaves a lot potentially in the other camp. We need some other folks to weigh in here. I'm pretty sure that Rick P was not in the two that I won (otherwise, I probably wouldn't have). John, I did not participate in the 1972 and 1973 contests. I'm also now wondering whether Bachar did California Night and Rick did I Hear My Train A Comin' in a 1974 contest at Woodson. That would fit in with my original thought that the first one at Woodson that I was in was 1975.

After the two Woodson contests that I've referred to, I remembering participating in the one at Magnolia in 1979 and another, later one at Woodson.



bones

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 4, 2006 - 08:12pm PT
Can anyone tell me how to get to this boulder 13? Not that I have any business on it now, but I'd like to work up to it.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 4, 2006 - 08:35pm PT
Walk up the road. Just before the 2 practice boulders at the bottom, look across the backyard of the nearby house (looking SW). See the large flat looking boulder that is split in 2? That is boulder 13. The opposite face is the climb. DO NOT GO THROUGH THEIR BACKYARD TO GET THERE (as tempting as that might be). GO AROUND WITHOUT DISTURBING THEM.
bones

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 4, 2006 - 08:45pm PT
thanks klimmer
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 5, 2006 - 02:30am PT
my recollection of the great western bouldering championships:

#1: '72 or '73, at the pink boulder (or was it trash rock??), in mission gorge.

next one i can distinctly remember was '77, there was a climb-off at the end between bachar and yaniro on the (at that time) unclimbed aid crack across the drainage from the black dot problem?

'78 -- the first magnolia contest. i think cameron won? i know he was the only guy to do the right-to-left arching thin crack problem...?


and bachar was the only guy to do this horrendous inch-and-a quarter roof..


the next g.w.b.c i can recall was at roubidoux, in '80? ron fawcett CRUSHED the competition.

then the next one was back at santee, '81 i think, this was the year that the "20 point porblem" first appeared....

i know i'm missing another santee g.w.b.c., where watusi was wearing a clown costume...

the last one i went to was organized by carmel schimmel, woodson march '85 (or '86?), kauk crushed in the "stonemasters" category.

there was another wooodson comp where "werner's wish" was introduced, can't remember the year.

been to too many of those fukkking great western bouldering championships, they've all blurred together.....



Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 5, 2006 - 10:01am PT
This bouldering contest history is good stuff . . .

Apparently I can't remember sh@* either.

The ones I went to are:

'78/'79? (What year was it???) Magnolia Boulders. I only knew the local boys, did not know Bachar was there.

---I was gone from sunny SD for 4 years.

'86 "California Bouldering Championship and 1st Annual Stone Masters Free-climbing Competition," March 29, 1986, at Mt. Woodson. Organizer: Yep, Carmel Schimmel (she was working the climbing section at Sports Chalet up in Escondido at the time). I still have the flyers from this comp. True, Ron Kauk totally spanked the competition. He did his circuit early and beat everyone before they knew what ever happened. My girlfriend at the time and I, were up there 1 or 2 days before the contest and Rick Piggot was giving Ron the intro to all the classic master test pieces. Got to chat with him a bit. One thing I remember was Ron walking around in levis and wallabys (looked like he stepped right out of the seventies). That was one of the best bouldering comps I attended. Lots of well known climbers in attendance.

'90 "Southern California Bouldering Championship" Dec. 2, 1990 at Mt. woodson. Again, very well organized and very well attended. Nice t-shirt. I do not remember who won the contest though. I still have the flyers from this comp. It seems to me Rick Piggot was very involved in the contest of '86 and '90. Perhaps he also helped co-organize the events.

All good stuff. Wish something like that would happen again. But, I would want all the same old-timers to return. They would have to have the old-time masters event . . . Must have climbed in one previous GWBC to compete in this category.

Artificial Contests:

'89 Then there were 2 artificial climbing wall contests, one sponsored by Sports chalet in 1989 called "Rock Till You Drop" on May 14, 1989, at the Point Loma store parking lot.

'90 Another at the Del Mar Fair Grounds called "1990 San Diego Indoor Climbing Championship" sponsored by A-16, Black Diamond, and Aquarius Adventures.

Both were fun, but it just isn't the same as the traditional bouldering contests. At the bouldering contests, you could climb a lot more before you would be eliminated, or even keep climbing unofficially afterwards.

Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2006 - 10:41am PT
bvb. You must be thinking of someone else, as I definitely did not win the first Magnolia contest.

Rich history. It does appear that between John Vawter, bvb, klimmer, and myself we've accounted for most of the contests in the '70s and '80s. I don't know why I was completely clueless about the first two (oh wait, I DO know why). The big question for me is was the first one I entered (presumeably in 1975) the first one at Woodson.

That aside, those were good times. To me, the climbing contests provided an avenue for rubbing shoulders with other San Diego climbers, as I tended to hang out only with a close group of friends (Poway Mountain Boys).

Another thing, more in keeping with the topic of this thread...Woodson is a great place to train for Yosemite cracks in general, and offwidth cracks in particular. I can't tell you the number of times I have climbed with guys who were much better climbers than me in all other categories except wide cracks.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 5, 2006 - 01:54pm PT
right..i think bachar won it. but i almost definately recall (ok, we were smoking a lot of reefer that day so i may be geting this wrong) that you were the first guy to crack the sequence on the right-to-left arching thin seam problem (in the pic above...)
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Mar 6, 2006 - 06:16pm PT
Anyone ever do the offwidth on the NW slope of Cowles Mtn, just south of the summit of Mission Gorge Rd? old chains on top.

Also,
if anyone wants to give any route info to DK, - ASAP, he is doing a new guidebook to the county. Constructive comments ? or just entertainment value spoutations?
MtWoodsonguide? or are you still working on your own guide?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 6, 2006 - 11:41pm PT
I know Dave Kennedy, although it has been awhile since I’ve seen him. Tell Dave to read the following article: "The Guidebook Problem" by Lito Tejada-Flores & friends, from Ascent, Vol. 2, No. 2, 1974. It will always be a timeless and important article. These are yesterday’s issues, these are today’s issue, and they will be tomorrow’s issues. The issue will not ever go away.

I am not anti-guidebook, I collect them. But they should be done with local consent. The shot-gun method of just writing up anything and everything, no matter how the climbers’ feel who took the time to find and discover the new site(s) and who would like to see an area develop slowly and steady, rather than overnight by publishing the site, needs to be addressed. And the renaming of climbs because the first ascsensionist didn’t want to say in attempt to keep it out of a guidebook also needs to be respected especially if it is a new area development, and previously unpublished. You don’t ever go and rename climbs -- period. I feel strongly about these issues especially here in San Diego County, since it is where I learned to climb and often explore.

I prefer to keep my mouth shut and enjoy newly discovered areas to climb and share them with friends or people of like mind. It is always a hoot to see an area discovered by a guidebook author and then later come up and say, sorry that was already climbed and the name of the climb is, and here is the proof. Instantly the book is out of date.

Things have changed so much since the 70’s especially the number of people who climb. New areas can change rapidly overnight and often not for the better. Case in point, the current local war that is going on over “The Wedge” on El Cajon Mtn. with lots of hurt feelings, falling out friendships, or worse.

In another thread I said, I wouldn’t go there about guidebooks. Oops. Mybad? Flame away. I have my fire retardant underwear on.

mtwoodsonguide

Big Wall climber
San Diego
Mar 7, 2006 - 02:19am PT
Holy crap grug is Greg Cameron.

So anyways
there are tons of offwidth up on that hill, plenty in the 5.10-11 range, but mostly short. Only Vice Pricipals Office (wide, but not that wide), Undertow (full on) have been called 5.12.
I've got a bunch of offwidth boulder problems in the B1 range though, alot of them are 2 boulders up against each other or sitstarts.
If Woodson should be known for anything, it's flares, where you can only get one hand back to the perfect hands and you have to use alot of chimney tech.
Hate to say it but the stuff out in Utah is way harder, it's such a mind f---, when you got to go a hundred feet looking down at a tipped out big boy and a tube chock.
Anyone ever notice most of the stuff up on that hill is right side in, really screws me up, because I aways want to go right side in.
So a guidebook, I think I just fell into something with a co-author but were only doing santee for right now 320 problems + 160 variations (yeah I know I'm a freak).
Yo, BVB you down for doing the intro and history?
. When I finally get around to Woodson I think it will break 1000 routes and problems (and not like this Santee guide where every 3" is something different).
So a bouldering comp at Santee, I've been thinking about it, I've got about 20 projects in the V6-V10 range, and wouldn't mind seeing some big boys get spanked on some of the established stuff. You know those things you look at and say yeah, no, maybe in another lifetime, were going to tell the mutants that stuff has been done before, and only V3.
Hey, you guys know your sandbaggers right, I'm just realizing 5.11 is actualy like V6.

Oh yeah, no ones mentioned Right Longs Crack, right up there with 13, Greg's and, Mother Superior, and probabally requires more technique then the others.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 7, 2006 - 02:31am PT
here you go:

[url="http://home.comcast.net/~e.hartouni/doc/Guidebook_Problem.txt"] The Guidebook Problem by Lito Tejada-Flores and friends[/url]
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 7, 2006 - 10:17am PT
mtwoodsonguide: let's not forget the ogre -- has some 5.11 offwidth as i recall.

i mentioned this before, and i don't know how this rumor got started, but the ain't no OW on the VP's Office. it starts with flared, technical fists in a really overhanging corner (for me -- and i've got small hands) then steadily gets smaller, winding up as thin hands.

and i must say, maria's ofwidth will put some hair on your chest if you go on-sight it without a rope or pads, like all up on it back in the day n' shite. it's high with a scary overhanging chicken-wing crux -- staring down past your feet at the hard sloping landing 15' down -- right before you can pop into the sanctuary of the squeeze chimmney....
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 7, 2006 - 11:22am PT
The left crack on Mt Everest Boulder doesn't qualify as a "hardest" woodson offwidth, but I like the image.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 7, 2006 - 11:42am PT
slack, goddammit.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 7, 2006 - 11:44am PT
that wasn't what you said at the time...
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 7, 2006 - 01:29pm PT
dude, there's a HUGE scratch in your negative for that print. this one is much better:

looking sketchy there...

Social climber
Latitute 33
Mar 7, 2006 - 02:02pm PT
There were two bouldering contests at Mt. Rubidoux (1983 & 1984)?? titled the California Bouldering Contest. No offwidths, but plenty of thin face problems and a few assorted cracks. These were done because Werner Landry, et al, got tired of putting on the Woodson, San Diego contests.

KP and Hensel were in charge of picking and rating problems (Oh Man! - were there sandbags or what?) At the 2nd one, Rob Raker used one of the first portable personal computers (hooked up with a generator) to tally the results in record time. Somewhere I still have a T-Shirt or two from the contests.
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2006 - 03:32pm PT
Thanks Lookin' Sketchy. I'm going to compile everybody's bouldering contest posts in a single post a bit later.

But first, who's done Undertow as an offwidth?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 7, 2006 - 03:49pm PT
to my knowledge, tom lindner and piggot are the only two guys who've done it straight-in as an offwidth. that is to say, they're the only two guys who've led it. if you undercling it, you're either tr'ing or soloing.....

Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2006 - 05:13pm PT
Damn that Piggot! There was a time when I could at least offwidth better than him!
WBraun

climber
Mar 7, 2006 - 05:20pm PT
Beautiful shot above Bob.

Is this guy free soloing or leading?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 7, 2006 - 05:37pm PT
that be me, burning my one and only solo lap on that thing. scaaaaary.

(brian bailychrome photo)
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2006 - 05:53pm PT
good job bvb!
John Vawter

Social climber
San Diego
Mar 7, 2006 - 08:48pm PT
Jeez Bob, I assumed the toprope was there and you just couldn't see it. You ought to post a shot showing the landing. Bold.

I hope you guys are busy scanning more slides. I'm buggin' Werner to recall some dates and places, at least, if not some stories and pictures.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 7, 2006 - 09:01pm PT
actually, it was a hulluva lot less scary than the first time i bouldered hear my train. but then again, i never used a rope on hmt from about '79 onwards, whereas i only bouldered undertow once, after tr'ing it about 20 times over the course of a week....
Ed Bannister

Mountain climber
Victorville, CA
Mar 7, 2006 - 10:08pm PT
hats off to anybody who does those things... I never understood anybody who actually wanted to do an offwidth, to me they were a necessary thing to get past on a long climb.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 7, 2006 - 11:57pm PT
Damn bvb. Witnessed Piggot solo plenty, and Mike Paul, and now you doing undertow solo and hmtc solo many times, Woodson sure has generated a lot of serious talent (real men).

The list goes on and on, bvb, Greg C., R. Leavitt, the Linder's, Knuth brothers, Dave Robinson etc. It turns out that several of the Stonemasters made it down to Woodson at some time or another and not just once, Mike Graham, John Long, John Bacher, who else? Lyn Hill made it down at least once during '88/'89. She came down to present her slide show at A-16 and a group of us working there from the Mission Gorge store went up to Woodson with her for a long afternoon. Dave Robinson was having her jump on all kinds of desperates that he had dialed. I do have a nice slide (I need a slide scanner) of her on "Move over Junior" Eric Knuth's desperate face problem next to Seminar Wall. Chris was never able to do it, hence the name. And Chris was climbing hard then. If you don't believe Lyn can do the splits, she can. I have proof of this from her attempt. As far as I know, that hasn't seen a second ascent? I may be wrong.

Also in the photog department, Epi, Brian Bailey, and I'll add Doug W. to that category too, great B&Ws, really capturing the 70s throughout San Diego County. It's all good. I would love to hear the stories from WL.

A few days before the '86 contest at Woodson, when Piggot was guiding Ron Kauk around on all the classic hardman problems, Rick was doing solo laps on Mother Superior, with a top rope set-up and out of reach nearby, and then turns to Ron, "What do you think?" Ron looks back up to the 3 or 4 of us watching from the road, and then says deadpan "I think I'll take the rope."

My exact thoughts. I think I'll take the rope. Hats off to all of you though for inspiration.

Didn't witness Chris Knuth's solo of Uncertainty Principle but heard all about it from his brother Eric. Both are good friends. Chris was absolute raw talent (so is Eric). Within just a few years of climbing Chris was pulling down 5.14c/d? all over the place. Sadly he just one day flat-out quit. His wife still climbs. I keep asking his brother Eric when I see him, if Chris is climbing at all these days and the answer is always "no." I don't understand that. How does someone get so good so quick and all of a sudden just gives it up? I did hear though one day he did manage to get off the sofa and without any recent climbing he pulled down 5.12 at the gym. Climbing for me has always been my first love. Even if I can't pull down like all the stonemasters I'll keep climbing and trying until I can't get out of bed anymore. It's a life-style; great for the soul and body, and good fun. NGU.

Edit: that is one damn good jam with the right hand on Mt. Everest leftside. Love that first jam. You can camp there. By the way, I'd like to (or someone else can) post the roof climbing cartoon from Cs & Bs of SD Co. if you don't mind. That is one hilarious toon . . .
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2006 - 09:13am PT
Damn, I miss Woodson more than ever! I've never liked any other bouldering area.

Seems like I missed a lot in the '80s (and onward).

As much as I liked going up there with friends, it's an awesome place to just go by yourself and do a bunch of mini-climbs. Over the years I was able to do all but a few of the problems without a rope (e.g., never did MS without a rope). Just wandering up that road doing those favorite problems here and there...Woodson, I miss you MAN!
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 8, 2006 - 10:03am PT
If Epperson posted his shots in an online forum, the contrast between real talent and my nascent ambition would be pretty obvious. He's one of my favorite climbing photographers of all time, and arguably one of the greatest climbing related talents to ever come out of San Diego.
ground_up

Trad climber
portland, or.
Mar 8, 2006 - 10:41am PT
Hey Grug , nice to see you here ! We were the younger group following you guys around woodson , always in awe of you and Rick , I remember Rudy Ing and I tearing up our hands trying b13 as 15 year olds....and I remember when Rick was working on silk banana , we could barely touch that stuff although we'd go back and try when you guys weren't looking....sb was a full body undercling for us at the time.....anyway , thanks for tolerating and helping us back in those days !....you were always an inspiration for us !
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 8, 2006 - 12:26pm PT
Offwhite--

True. However, don't minimize what you contributed -- it's all good stuff. I do recall seeing early work by Rowell, Epperson, and Bailey, and they certainly got better and perfected their own styles and craft over time. They weren't scoring magazine cover shots from the very beginning. Some of these historical shots are all we got and they are good for the time period. You captured some classic images for the time period.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 8, 2006 - 12:46pm PT
klimmer -- off's head is fat enough as it is. you're pouring gasoline on a wildfire, babe.
John Vawter

Social climber
San Diego
Mar 8, 2006 - 12:59pm PT
Doug, I think your shots hold up very well. I like the way B&W heightens the drama, and for us old guys it summons memories of Mountain Magazine. The contrast and detail on the El Camino/Hangover shots, and the one of Bob on the Everest boulder, are excellent. And they're composed well. The shot of the guy leading El Camino really evokes for me what climbing is all about. So keep 'em coming.
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2006 - 02:17pm PT
Hey, thanks ground_up. It seems to me that someone else from this era, my friend and fellow Poway Mountain Boy, Tom Gibson, rarely sees any press or credit. Whenever I have read anything about Woodson, he is never mentioned. Tom was and is still a great climber (he actually lives here, near Boulder).

In the second (or third) Woodson contest, Tom and I actually tied for first, but we flipped a coin and I got the rope.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 8, 2006 - 03:27pm PT
greg, trust me, the poway mountain boys were and continue to be the stuff of legend. you, tom, george, piggot, et. al. are quite possibly the most talented yet unsung bouldering heros in the u.s.

yeah, sherman really missed the boat in "stone crusade" when he failed to tell the story of the poway mt. boys. but then, you guys kept the lowest profile of any a-list climbers i've ever met.

i mean, look at piggot. free solos the fourth or fifth ascent of lie detector in '84 or '85, and never says a word about it to anybody. and when you free-soloed the arrow chimmney, all i can recall is a one-liner buried in the fine print of mt. magazine, like, six months later. what? no teams of photographers in tow??? jesus man, you'll NEVER get sponsored with that kind of attitude! ;-}
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 8, 2006 - 08:50pm PT
"Oh yeah, no ones mentioned Right Longs Crack, right up there with 13, Greg's and, Mother Superior, and probabally requires more technique then the others."

Jezzz, I totally forgot about those cracks. That was sketchy at the time because we didn't have a rope and had to climb up and down the righ one a few times before mounting the sac to do it. But I don't believe that crack is anywhere near as hard as the other stuff that RP and other locals did there.

JL
mtwoodsonguide

Big Wall climber
San Diego
Mar 8, 2006 - 09:18pm PT
a come-along was used to pull a big flake out of the bottom of right longs in the 80's, making it 11+ and as hard those others.
Starts with a hand stack, go inverted, walk the feet up about 5 feet, and turn back around. way physical way technical.
bones

Trad climber
San Diego
Mar 9, 2006 - 05:55pm PT
So I gave Mother Superior a shot yesterday and found out that my knee doesn't fit in the whole upper half of the offwidth section. I tried each knee several times in several places (after eventually stemming off the behind boulder)and it just won't go. Has anyone here climbed it without using leavitation that could offer up some advice? I'm going to assume that it's substantially harder to climb it this way. I did manage to flash the top section though (right side on TR).
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2006 - 06:48pm PT
Right side in - armbars and maybe the occasional chicken-wing. It's quite hard this way.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 9, 2006 - 07:40pm PT
bvb --

Hope you don't mind, I can't resist posting your cartoon from Cs & Bs of SD Co. (Editor - Doug White). Absolutely hilarious, and evidently ahead of it's time. Art by bvb, and a bit of the end of the essay "Climbing Ethics: Travesty of a Farce" by Frank Noble . . .

So, what does ". . . hanging 4 by five . . ." mean anyway???
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 9, 2006 - 07:42pm PT
Hey, where is Frank Noble these days. He was a pull up machine in his day, and a great kid.

JL
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 9, 2006 - 07:53pm PT
JL....law degree, then he disappeared from sight. miss the guy. wish he'd resurface....
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 9, 2006 - 07:55pm PT
Frank got swallowed by the legal profession. Someone ran into him a decade ago or so and he didn't seem all that eager to link his past to his current situation, more's the pity. He worked hard to cultivate a very Largoesque Hhhhooohh Maaan. He was unhappy with the amount of editing I did on his essay in that guide, it was something like 12 pages single spaced and a tough row to hoe. Here's Frank at Boomer Beach on some formation that no doubt no longer exists.

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 9, 2006 - 07:59pm PT
that "someone" was me, and it was 1985. he was hiking to hot rocks with some people...well, let's just say the girls obviously did not climb and they were slavered in makeup. he tried to pretend he hardly knew us. like you say, more's the pity. i celebrate my depraved past. i don't run from it.
John Vawter

Social climber
San Diego
Mar 9, 2006 - 08:32pm PT
Whadya mean past?

Frank has an office Downtown, on Beech Street, a few blocks from mine.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 9, 2006 - 08:35pm PT
no sh#t? so is he still climbing or what? good to hear he's still in san diego.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 9, 2006 - 08:42pm PT
Double no sh#t? Is he still climbing? Heh, you gotta love the small world. Say hey for me, okay?
John Vawter

Social climber
San Diego
Mar 9, 2006 - 08:46pm PT
I don't think Frank is climbing. If you want to give him a call, email me and I'll pass along his office number. No email listed in atty directory.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 9, 2006 - 09:57pm PT
Ok, so we have heard a little on their whereabouts and have tabs on the following SD climbers: Werner L., Doug W., bvb, Galen K., Greg C., Frank N., Rick P., Tom G., the Linders, who else should be mentioned? How about Keith Brueckner? When was the last someone saw Keith? The last time I saw Keith was in JT about 1990? top-rope solo belaying with ascenders, one climb after the next, right down the line. He was getting in more climbing than I was that day with friends. Sometimes it is nice just to go it alone for the day.

Now I know I've asked this before (another thread), but since no response, I'll try to ask it again here. What is Mike Paul doing these days? When was the last someone saw Mike? Next to Rick P., and Keith B., Mike P. was the one I would most often bump into up at Woodson in the mid to late 70s. I knew Mike when he had long hair. Even gave him a belay now and then. As a result, I always think of him with long hair even though I have seen countless images of Mike with short hair afterwards. He is one gifted, smooth, very powerful climber. He solo floated so many desperate test-pieces at Woodson while I watched in awe. He was a true inspiration for me. Damn he could even float them while high. Perhaps it was a performance drug after all?

I would really like to know if anyone knows.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 9, 2006 - 10:27pm PT
married, house in josh, living the dream.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 9, 2006 - 10:51pm PT
bvb--

Thanks. It's nice to know. I'll assume he still pulls down hard and is still into playing music? Safe to assume?

How about Keith? I would like to think he is still going strong, but age eventually catches up to everyone. Does anyone know?
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2006 - 11:33am PT
I feel like I must mention a couple of the original poway mountain boys, Dave Goeddel and Bruce Adams. They, along with Piggot, were climbing 5.10 as early as 1970/1971 in RRs. Others in that group: Denny Adams (Bruce’s older brother), Kinley Adams (my first climbing partner), Colin Piggot (Rick’s younger brother, who had lots of natural talent, but decided to quit climbing and do motocross instead), Jim Cameron (my older brother, who was better than me in every sport except climbing), and “Big Duke” Dan Heiser.

Bouldering at Woodson in preparation for the real deal at Tahquitz/Suicide is what we lived for. By 1972, most of the group had cracked the 5.10 level. Those were the days of pitons and RRs and lot’s of good time adventuring…
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 10, 2006 - 12:10pm PT
Grug--

Good stuff. Finally we are getting some San Diego history on the Poway Mtn. Boys. I'm glad you can do it.

Sounds like just about all the Stonemasters made it down to San Diego to climb Woodson, Santee and perhaps other locals at some time or another, according to SM V thread. This is all really very interesting. It really is important to know. And like bvb said, the Poway Mtn. Boys need their due -- that chapter was left out of Stone Crusade sadly. You guys were way ahead in so many ways. Sounds like there are a lot of stories to tell from that early period.

Greg, you wouldn't know who the local Woodson sandbaggers were that got in turn bagged by Royal Robbins when he did the 1st free ascent of "Robbins" hand crack would you?
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2006 - 12:57pm PT
klimmer. Was just catching up on the SM v5 thread. Not positive, but my guess would be Dave Goeddel and/or Denny Adams - both pranksters, were the sandbaggers on Robbins crack.

I consider Robbins crack to be THE classic at Woodson. My first climb ever was Sickle crack (an offwidth). Remember being pretty proud of my 15-year-old ass when I did Robbins.
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2006 - 02:10pm PT
By the way, I appreciate bvb's and Klimmer's nice words of appreciation for the PMB. However, I don't think that any of us considered ourselves boulderers. At least in the early years, we typically didn't even name "solutions" (as RMuir in the SM thread calls them), because we just didn't think much of being the first guy up a boulder "problem". It was all about practicing for real climbing.

To this day, I'm probably one of the worst boulderers I know in comparison with what I can lead. I think Woodson spoiled me (which I think of as a mini-climbing area). I've probably bouldered twice since 1988. I know that I'm in the minority here, but bouldering areas like Flagstaff in Boulder are just plain boring to me.
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 10, 2006 - 03:17pm PT
If I have one true regret it's that the SD boys and us LA Stonemasters didn't join up early on. Piggot was a Stonemaster from the start--just a real soulful dude with a real stoke for climbing and massive sac out on the sharp end; Grug would have been very handy on some of our early Yosemite experiences (Twilight Zone, et al, before we had off width dialed)--I always respected Grug and always let him know I did, for whatever that's worth--and Adams (who I climbed with a bunch at the Cookie)was a great natural talent and a totally go for it dude (who, I believe, later climbed a lot with Tobin).

Anyhow, though we shared a mutual history, we didn't share it together, and we really should have. It would have been like two peas in a pod. Those early conga line first ascents at Suicide would have had 20 instead of 10. And it was always the more the merrier with us because back then thre was plenty to go around.

JL

Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 11, 2006 - 04:28pm PT
Largo. I know that Rick would really appreciate hearing this from you and the other Stonemasters. He thought the world of you guys.

Now Rick was three years older than me, and, to tell you the truth, I was scared of him half the time in our early years climbing together - kind of a little brother syndrome or something (and that Clint Eastwood glare!). I remember this story he told me around the time we did the New Dawn together. I may have not have the cast of characters exactly right, but as I remember, you, Kauk, maybe Dale, and Rick were doing Serenity Crack together around 1975. Everyone but Rick did it without a slip. At the top, you guys all did some ritual handshake thing or something, but, because he had taken a fall, he wasn't included (in the same way, or something - I can't remember the details). Well, this had a big effect on him, and I think made him determined more than ever to "be worthy" of the Stonemasters. (I'm glad I'm not scared of him anymore, because he'd probably not like the fact that I wrote this).
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 11, 2006 - 04:55pm PT
Hey, Grug--

You only got this half right. After we got to the top of Serenity Ron and I dropped down on a top rope and did the crux bare footed. Rick did the crux fine but slipped on the barefooted effort.

I always tried to climb with Rick whenever he was around but for whatever reason our paths rarely crossed. I should have been more proactive and sought him out because he was one of the really talented guys.

JL
F10 Climber F11 Drinker

Trad climber
e350
Mar 11, 2006 - 05:12pm PT
Not sure of the year but quite a while back Tom Scott and I were headed to do Serenity crk. When we got there we found Mike Paul headed up the thing with no shoes, couldn't believe what I was seeing. Something about his toes fittin' the crack good, made my toes ache just watching
illusiondweller

Boulder climber
San Diego, CA
Apr 14, 2006 - 05:55pm PT
Ahhhh, what a priviledge to be in the presents of such local history! Thank you all for sharing your pasts with us/me. I can not help but to think that if I had taken a different path in life that my climbing accomplishments might be looked back upon by fellow climbers/friends such as yourselves. Although, not regretting the "path" that life guided me down, I read your stories and relive the days I spent up on Woodson honing my skills in the shadows of R.Piggot, BVB, G. Epperson, Dan and Don, M. Paul, the Linder's and a host of many others.

Thanks Rick for being patient with me on Firefly even though I never really got off the ground on the damn thing!

I can't forget running into Eppy, with camera in hand, at the '86 GWBC on Woodson with 5 minutes to go in the comp and one space on my card to fill. "Why don't you do 5.10b on the Outside? You ticked that thing the last time I saw you. It's even stumped some of the Elite today!", having also succeeded on Mother Superior and Driving South, I placed 5th in the Open division that day winning a set of HB nuts.

I'm presently residing in New Jersey with my new family after having returned from being called over to the deserts of Iraq and serving as a Corpsman with the 1/23 Marines.
Leroy

climber
Apr 15, 2006 - 09:17am PT
Rick Piggot was the first guy I met when I went to the valley.I still remember him coming back one day saying that Largo had taken him over to Bachar crack.That blew my mind .Bachar crack seemed impossible.Over the years we climbed a fair bit together.How he,d fill the air with his silences.Then when he would say something....Well you never knew what he was going to say.Eastwood dead on.
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2006 - 09:22am PT
-- How he,d fill the air with his silences.

That's friggin' poetry, Leroy.
Leroy

climber
Apr 15, 2006 - 12:00pm PT
But the slippery slidey road to perdition really started when I met Grug err Greg.
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2006 - 12:20pm PT
Leroy. As I recall, you were already barreling down that road before you ever met me. The line about Rick...I gotta say, it's perfect.
mooser

Trad climber
seattle
Jan 21, 2007 - 07:55pm PT
Klimmer posted a link to this earlier thread, and I was pretty stoked to follow it. Very fun. I am looking at my hands as I type, and I still have visible scar tissue from fist jams on Boulder 13 (1975 and subsequent years). This stuff is so dang nostalgic.
Watusi

Social climber
Joshua Tree, CA
Jan 23, 2007 - 04:31pm PT
Wow!! this is the first time I saw this thread as well!! Very nostalgic,(sniff, sniff)...I love all yooz guys!!!
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Jan 23, 2007 - 04:53pm PT

Hey Watusi, seem to remember from another thread that you lost some large number of pounds and are pullin' down again. Hope that's all going well.

Greg
Watusi

Social climber
Joshua Tree, CA
Jan 23, 2007 - 07:22pm PT
Givin' it my best!! Cheers! MP
F10

Trad climber
e350
Jan 7, 2010 - 12:16am PT
Bump

Good climbing stuff
Porkchop_express

Trad climber
Currently in San Diego
Jan 7, 2010 - 01:46am PT
I just went to Woodson for the first time yesterday. Got on a few interesting problems on the Sunday Aft boulder. I have much to learn...

Victim of Aids looks like it might make a fun project. I hear that one hasn't seen a lot of repeats.
REIGN 1

Gym climber
Carlsbad, Ca
Jan 7, 2010 - 02:02am PT
I went down a belayed Rick Piggot on undertow when he lead it for the first time. Rick is an offwith master. We also went up to suicide and he lead pisano overhang about the same time.
Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Jan 7, 2010 - 02:33am PT
I hate to say it, but Victim of Aids (my friends and I call it Aids Victim, maybe we're wrong?) has been sent by TONS of people. It's actually one of the easier finger cracks out there of the grade 11+ and harder. It's actually pretty trivial relative to something like Driving South which get's an 11+ if I remember right. Unless it's offwidth, or some obscure random hard thing, it's probably safe to assume that it gets a lot of ascents if it's "only" 5.12 in today's climbing world.

Since this thread is about offwidth, I thought I would post up a link to some Woodson Offwidth videos my friends and I put together:

http://pullharder.org/2009/10/16/pullharder-vs-woodson/

Josh

REIGN 1

Gym climber
Carlsbad, Ca
Jan 7, 2010 - 02:57am PT
Ya he's right. Aids victum has been done thousands of times. We used to run laps on that thin crack.
gonamok

Trad climber
Dont look at me like that
May 10, 2010 - 04:08pm PT
These threads are priceless. Its a total priveledge to be a fly on the wall listening to climbers who would be charter members of the climbing hall of fame speak with such candor and humility. Lifelong climbers as it turns out are all cut from the same cloth. Those who will always climb share a bond regardless of ability or accomplishment. Here we are in our 50's or older and still climbing. In what other field of endeavor do you find such camraderie and mutual respect between legends and yeomen. Good friends, good people.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 22, 2011 - 12:37am PT
SoCal bump
scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Dec 22, 2011 - 12:29pm PT
This is the thread that launched a thousand gobis!!

Not that it's one of the Hard ones, but the Big Grunt deserves some praise!!
kcangi

climber
Eldorado Springs, CO
Jul 27, 2018 - 04:46pm PT
Chris still climbs all the time. He's still strong.
Tom Patterson

Trad climber
Seattle
Jul 27, 2018 - 05:19pm PT
Dang! What a blast to re-read this thread! Pretty much everything I know about cracks, be they OW, hand, finger, or off-hand, I learned at Woodson. I can remember entire sequences on so many problems to this day, and I was only a local (granted a 5-days a week local) from '75 till around '82 (and then tapered off somewhat from Woodson to other areas till moving away in '85).

I took my future wife to Woodson on our first date. Ran out of gas in my '67 bug, which really impressed my future father in law when the tale was recounted to him.

Woodson is magic, and the recurring names in this thread are such a huge reason why.

Greg...you were always the man when it came to OW.



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