Silent partner tips please

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 1 - 50 of total 50 in this topic

alannamal

climber

B.C.

Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 16, 2011 - 10:46am PT

So I just picked up a silent partner (100 bucks, never used, score!) and am looking for some tips from folks who are familiar with them. It seems like the manual is all over the top with there back up systems. Do you really need to use 2 lockers on it? And hows about just having a clove hitch as back-up instead of the big cluster of loops that they recommend for leading? I know that I'm ultimately responsible for my own safety systems, just wondering what other users of said device have found to be most effective. Thanks!

scuffy b

climber

dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:29am PT

Is using two lockers a problem?

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:37am PT

If you read and re-read the manual you will see they recommend a clove on a locker as the back-up. Using multiple fig of 8 on lockers is another option. I use a clove on a locker(keylock so the clove won't snag when taking it out) and got good at doing a clove with one hand and my teeth.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:40am PT

I like silent partners too, someone who isn't jabbering away when I'm leading a spicy pitch.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:47am PT

That belay device he came up with is awesome. I wish he could do something with it to help himself.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:51am PT

Greg Lowe could tell you that there is a big difference between having a good, even great, prototype and bringing it to market.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 11:55am PT

Yes, that thing would be tough to manufacture because it is such a work of art. I know I would buy two.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:16pm PT

Nasty captain of a sailing vessel, to his mate: "What I want from you mister mate is silence, and not too much of that."

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:21pm PT

Spendy was what I was getting at. I would still buy two having used it before. Superlight, autolocking on DOUBLE ropes! Good example of simple elegant genius.

Melissa

Gym climber

berkeley, ca

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:32pm PT

If you're comfortable w/ 1 biner and 1 clove hitch no one will stop you. I like the double biner aspect b/c it's your whole system and you can't fully control orientation on your biner if you fall (though the new solo/belay-specific rotation-limiting biners can help).

There's an old rc.com thread somewhere describing a solo fall that broke a climber's biner on a grigri sending him to his backup.

There was also another tale of a climber who took a huge fall on Braille Book and another similar story on After Six because the low angle falls didn't generate enough force to lock up the device. Also, if you forget about self-feeding the back up can limit how much slides through.

I'm far from a SP expert, but FWIW, I've never run more than one knot (I like and eight on a bight). I think the rationale behind having many knots ready to go is that you don't have to futz with it much to drop one and move into the next. If the terrain permits to not drag the whole rope up on your person, pulling up from the anchor would be my preference.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:43pm PT

I think having a technique to deal specifcly with each situation is the key.
Melissa, are you talking aid or free? Just wondering about tying and retying the figo8 with one hand while free climbing. Do it at stances? This is why I go with the clove.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:44pm PT

I have gotten pretty quick at dropping the old one and slapping on a new one.

JeffR

Trad climber

Cayucos, CA

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:47pm PT

I've found that using two carabiners to connect the SP makes the SP more "stable" on my harness, although one would certainly work.

The idea of the big-cluster-o-loops is yeah, a backup, but the advantage is also that it keeps the weight of the unused rope off of the SP mechanism which allows the SP to feed smoothly. I usually use two loops, because I found that sometimes I needed more rope to do a move than is available between the SP and the first loop, and it is quick and easy to unclip/untie the first loop to do the move, then tie/clip a second loop when I reach a good stance.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:52pm PT

Absolutely. Good points. I might try a second locker/clove combo b/u again now that I am a little better at managing the thing. I have run into the same issues with being short of rope at a crux.

Melissa

Gym climber

berkeley, ca

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:52pm PT

James Doty...Yes...I like to guestimate my next stance or hang for back-ups. I'm not keen on doing lead belayed solo free climbing beyond necessity, so I've never tried it on something that was so hard that a stance or hang would not be had at a reasonable interval. Like I said...people run multiple loops to make the process one handed. That would be easier for me than trying to shove a clove...which I've never had a knack for, but clearly others do.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:56pm PT

Yeah, old ropes are a nogo. I like climbing with a partner better of course but won't let the lack of one stop me.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 12:57pm PT

By the way you should have whined your complaints. He may have appreciated it for R&D.

Studly

Trad climber

Sep 16, 2011 - 01:01pm PT

Helps to have a nice rope with a dry finish for nice feeding. Keeping the rope weight off the Silent partner by the use of a back up knot is the most important thing I can think of. I have absolute confidence in the SP catching falls so for me the back up knot is just to take the rope weight off the device so it feeds well. When I use the SP I accept the fact that I am going to be doing a little french free, as it is quicker in some instances to take a hang to retie the back up knot then try to hold on and redo the whole affair if you are on anything of much difficulty.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 01:07pm PT

Good points about french free. I feel the same as far as the b/u. My first SP failed by constantly locking not failing to lock. I thought that was pretty cool design and became more confident in it. Wren rebuilt it of course for free.

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Sep 16, 2011 - 01:24pm PT

Curious if anyone has used both the soloist and silent partner enough to compare pros/cons between the units.

As to roped free soloing, I've always looked at it is something to be done on routes that you wouldn't do cordless, but are still below what you'd do with a partnered belay.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 01:41pm PT

The soloist, I have one for cheap if someone wants it, was too fiddly to me with the little jaw flopping around on a cord and requiring a chest harness.

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Sep 16, 2011 - 01:54pm PT

Ditto on the loops helping the device feed properly. It can get pretty frustrating if you don't do that.

I have used (and continue to use) both the Soloist and the SP. Both do the job with a similar amount of hassle. The only serious drawback to either would be the lack of the Soloist's ability to catch some falls. But backups will keep that from being a capital offense, and backups should be used regardless.

Slabby D

Trad climber

B'ham WA

Sep 16, 2011 - 02:11pm PT

You are obviously going to get a lot of different responses about how to configure your whole system.

The bets advice might be to really think hard about what your doing, how much redundancy you require and develop a system that you then can implement consistently.

Couple points

When you first start, it will feel like 90% rope management and 10% climbing and really won't be much fun. After doing a lot of pitches and walls with my SP it's gotten back to almost the reverse, feels like 80% climbing and 20% rope management. Regardless rope soloing will always have a large helping of engineering project vs climbing involved.

If you're having rope feed issues, yer doing it wrong. Proper management of a backup loop not only gives you redundancy should the SP fail but is also critical to providing smooth rope feed by balancing the weight on each side of the device. Done correctly (and using a rope that isn't overly slick or skinny) you can avoid the entire of issue of slack developing in the system that requires tieing the rope off mid-pitch and so forth.

FWIW I clip the SP directly into my belay loop with a single locking carabiner. I use a DMM Zodiac which is 80% stronger than any other AL locker on the market and rated to at least 12kn in crossload. I use a single backup knot at a time, figure 8 on an identical biner. I don't mind hanging on gear to fiddle with knots, it's just part of the process.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 02:15pm PT

Where the hell is the OP? Some of the best responses I have seen on one of these threads. Thanks you guys.

JeffR

Trad climber

Cayucos, CA

Sep 16, 2011 - 02:23pm PT

tolman_paul, I used a Soloist for years and had no problems with the safety of the system, but like James said, the floppy jaw and the complexity of the thing was a hassle. I'm nearsighted, so I couldn't see to put it together without taking off my glasses.

The Silent Partner is much easier to use, albeit twice as expensive...

There's also the chest-harness factor, which I hated.

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Sep 16, 2011 - 02:31pm PT

i have traveled a lot with my silent partner,
and trial and error have led me to this current setup:

the double lockers on your harness are necessary to keep the s.p. in its proper positon for feeding the rope.

the cluster of clove's on my harness is not so much for backup but for managing my slack, and also keeping the rope weight off the s.p. too much rope hanging on the device will cinch the clove hitch up and impede your vertical dream.

if you stack all of your slack on your harness (some folks use a backpack) then you can climb the whole rope out without ever having to pull up slack coils while climbing. i've tried both and found it easier to have the whole rope with you from the beginning.

lots of hassles accompany this system. you have to keep a constant eye on how the slack is flowing. tangles lead to the system locking up; and this usually happens at very inopportune moments.

brush up on your swear words cause you'll need alot. she (s.p.) seems to respond well to pirate talk.

edit to note:
i've whipped about 25 feet onto my system without any grief (well a little grief in the form of holy shite!)

edit a few action shots:

believe in me cause i don't belive in myself.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 02:44pm PT

No way I could do it like that. My stoney brain would explode.

sac

Trad climber

Sun Coast B.C.

Sep 16, 2011 - 02:45pm PT

Been meaning to "go for a spin" w/ mine since I got it...over a year ago.

This is great info. Thanks!

Seeing how my current partner bailed on me... get this: TO GO PAY HIS TAXES!!... yeah I know....

I might just have to get out there w/SP.

... I'm sure the OP is sitting back, chillin', like a villin', and making (mental) notes! YEAH!

Cheers!

A.

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Sep 16, 2011 - 02:56pm PT

my rope is way old and beat to hell, like it's driver.
no problem feeding thru the s.p.

one pain in the arse though is the rope gets so twisted from the running clove hitch that eventually it wont even feed thru the s.p.

when it gets this bad, i try to free-dangle it down a long pitch and let it wiggle its way untwisted.

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Sep 16, 2011 - 03:11pm PT

The reason I ask about the SP is I have a soloist, and have had it pretty much since they hit the market. It's not a perfect device, but I've rarely found it lacking for my needs, which have been 5.9 and easier rock, and WI 3 and easier when leading, the hardest aid my head can handle, and up to whatever I'm willing to attempt on tr. I don't get on overhanging stuff, and the chest harness isn't a deal killer.

But as I'm a gear nut, I'm always debating an upgrade ;)

It just seems like the rope management with the the SP is a real goat rope, no pun intended, well maybe a slight pu. Then again, I have gotten to the top of an ice climb and found that I'd put the rope backwards into the soloist, hence I was going to alot of effort and had no belay. Needless to say, I'm a bit more careful in checking which end the rope runs into the soloist. I haven't used backup loops on the soloist, something I should start to incorporate, but then you get into the rope managament goat rope.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 05:33pm PT

Ekat,
Is there any issue with using say a burly steel locker instead of two whatever other kind? Like maybe damage to the "ears" due to the extra space available for the locker to move if it came under high impact. Does that make any sense?

Edit: anyone else this question to.

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Sep 16, 2011 - 05:39pm PT

Tolman Paul, nice ice shot, but you CANNOT use the Silent Partner below freezing. Blinny will tell you, if that cylindrical centrifuge cylinder is frozen, your ass will be grass in a fall, while in the cold the soloist will still lock up tighter than Michelle Bachmans husbands butthole at a gay mens convention. (as long as you are not upside down of course)

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 05:49pm PT

man, another good post. Thanks.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 05:51pm PT

Thanks, thats very cool.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 08:23pm PT

Bump for Ekats' answer

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Sep 16, 2011 - 08:38pm PT

the size of the hole in the "ears" of the s.p.
promotes redundancy in the belay structure.
if you run one beaner (steel or otherwise),
the slop in the "ear" hole
lets the s.p. rotate and therefore doesn't feed well.

if you attach the s.p. to the belay loop, it essentially
rotates the device ninety degrees.

with the device oriented the way in my picture,
the rope is always feeding from left to right (from the
drivers perspective). if the unit was spun, as it would
be attached to your belay loop, then the flow would be funky.

i think that might be three sense. i'll donate the surplus cent.

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Sep 16, 2011 - 08:53pm PT

one problem i've found with the device
is that loose ends on your harness or rack,
ie leg loop straps, slings, stoppers
get pulled into the spinning parts and
seizes the knot and thus stops the flow.

you must secure leg loop strap excess, chalk back straps, etc
or anything else that could get stuck in there

one disgusting story regarding cause i've no esteem or shame
is one time i was working at our strawberry cabin and finished
my chores early so decided to get a route in at the leap.

as all i had were work jeans, and the day was 90 plus high,
i wanted some shorts. i had none but i found some of my wifes.

so i wore them, though they were on the short-short side, i figured they would be more comfortable than jeans.

wrong was i as the short-shorts became even shorter when cramped under my harness and my soft inner-leg flesh and ahhhmm, other venerable parts were constantly being pulled into the rope knot. it was totally horrible.

so never wear your wife or girlfriends shorts while running this belay.

edit:
i should state that the above referenced "problem" is not one of the device but more one of driver error. i really have found NO problems with this belay system. it's smokin and i hope i can still find one once mine wears out.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 09:00pm PT

I attach to the belay loop as per Dave T. recommend. It allows the whole device to rotate and feed no matter what weird position. Just drop on it and test the hang so to speak to make sure it doesn't hit your face. I have the same problem with my wall harness, the only one I use with the SP.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 09:02pm PT

Norg, I will definitely put that top of the list.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 09:08pm PT

No but I used to live and work in the Palm Desert area. Worked with and did a couple trips with the Bird but none of the benefit parties or anything. Something I will have to rectify in the future.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 09:18pm PT

Del Cross that is a good question to. I love this thread. I would probably take the time to change over to the gri-gri. I haven't done any walls so I haven't tried the SP in those circumstances. I have only tried short raps with and it is a shortcoming of the device.

Morgan

Trad climber

East Coast

Sep 16, 2011 - 10:20pm PT

Here's a pretty good blog series that touches on the SILENT PARTNER and other methods and techniques. Andy is in the Valley fairly often, and I guess he's currently on the Troll Wall putting the thing to use.

Part I
http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/rope_soloing_101_part_1

Part II
http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/rope_soloing_101_part_2

Part III
http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/rope_soloing_101_part_3

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 16, 2011 - 10:38pm PT

Morgan,
Haven't read them yet but certainly will. I love that guy. Just started Psychovertical. Thanks.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 17, 2011 - 12:06am PT

Ekat,
Thats' awesome! Thanks for posting. I actually run two lockers I was just wondering/wargaming what ifs in my head.

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 17, 2011 - 12:09am PT

I see his point to although the b/u locker keeps it from being a one biner system. I was thinking one biner would allow the SP to twist and bend better with movement as necessary. I shall experiment!

alannamal

climber

B.C.

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2011 - 12:03am PT

Great, what a treat to get back from a bunch of days in the hills and find all these cool replies. I will read them over a few more times, then go do a ton of climbing with it, then maybe get the hang of it! Only soloed with a clove hitch before, and I do believe this will be a better way.....

Febs

Trad climber

Northern Italy

Jul 28, 2014 - 01:38am PT

I have a crag quite close to home. Its pitches are very short. Very, indeed: like, ten meters (33ft) or just a little bit more.

Despite a lot of people trusts the SP blindly, I do follow the manual advice "not to trust my life to a single device".
I love to climb and I want to do it for a long time to come and I don't want to get injured or worse. So I tie and untie backup knots.

Now, this is very time consuming especially for such short pitches. The setup almost takes the same time as the climb itself and I want to do moar climbing and less fiddling.

So yesterday I was thinking: what about using two strands of rope, each with a different device? The SP on one, and, for instance, the gri-gri on the other.

What I am afraid of, is that the two could interfere each other and be detrimental to my safety rather than helpful.

Example: the gri-gri fails to lock but slows my fall enough so that the SP don't lock as well.

Is this TOO paranoid or does it make sense?
Any comments, or other tips to lead solo with a fast backup would be really appreciated. Many thanks!

climbski2

Mountain climber

Anchorage AK, Reno NV

Jul 28, 2014 - 07:50am PT

That is not too paranoid. Weird stuff happens with managing just a single rope on regular climbs. Stuff any auto belay device cannot "think" through. Using two ropes with two systems seems..like a cluster. With the usually attending, possible accident waiting to happen.

If you want to try something like that out..then set up a third line tied off short to the ground and take some falls on slightly overhanging terrain. Heh right after I suggest two lines is a cluster.. I then suggest a third line.. go figure.

See what happens, Should be interesting and educational at least.