Silly Question About Cam Hooks

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PellucidWombat

Mountain climber

Berkeley, CA

Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 12, 2011 - 01:10pm PT

What is the point of cam hooks? Do they work in placements where cams don't work, or do they just augment your cam rack?

I've had trouble envisioning where they would work that a cam wouldn't. I finally got myself a set and practiced on an eroded expansion joint at the beach yesterday, and after some reflection figured cam hooks are useful in the following situations:

1. Super thin cracks that are too thin for cams but large enough for the cam hook head when oriented sideways (smallest Ball Nutz could work here too?). In this orientation it seems there is no difference between mini, narrow & wide cam hooks?

2. For cracks of the same width for a long ways, they could be used to ascend the crack a ways, leaving an occasional cam for pro. Much faster than back-cleaning, and maybe better than leap-frogging since leap-frogging would leave you 2 cams fewer of the proper size to leave as pro? Easier to reach back and clean than a cam when leap-frogging?

3. For pockets that are too narrow for the narrowest cam heads, it seems the mini & narrow cam hooks could still work.

4. I played around with flaring cracks & they didn't seem to work any better than cams, but perhaps they can work better in wavy or jagged cracks?

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Sep 12, 2011 - 01:25pm PT

The narrower the hook design, the more leverage on the hook at the rock; the wider the hook, the less leverage on the hook at the rock. Fragile sites may need less leverage; chossier sites may need you to ‘dig in’.

You don’t necessarily leave any pieces behind and are ‘jumaring’ the features, therefore extending your rack, often hugely.

Cam hooks are really fast in use.

Many pinned-out sites work with cam hooks.

Sites that are not deep at all, but just are lips, either horizontal or vertical.

bergbryce

Mountain climber

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Sep 12, 2011 - 01:48pm PT

They're bomber and really fast to use. I usually place them vertically in a narrow slot that is just wide enough to accept the hook. Then you weight the hook and if it's a reasonable fit, it's very secure. They are usually removed (backcleaned) after you move on them because it's still a hook and once you take your weight off it, it's basically just hanging there. Plus you might want to use it again!

There is a great cam hook practice crack on Indian Rock... I believe it's below I5 (?) on the right side of the main area, maybe 30' right of "Water Streak". There is a drilled hole on the same line (I think) which is also good practice for some other hooks. The skinny crack maybe chest high will show you why cam hooks rock.
I didn't really understand them either until I placed one and stood on it. BOMBER and really fast when they are good.

-bryce

James Doty

Trad climber

Phoenix, Az.

Sep 12, 2011 - 01:54pm PT

Seemed like pretty good questions to me.

PellucidWombat

Mountain climber

Berkeley, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2011 - 02:00pm PT

Bryce,

Yeah, I was surprised how bomber they were once loaded. Not nearly as questionable as regular hooks! Thanks for the beta on Indian Rock practice. I've continued to use that place for ropework (great for Tyroleans), but I've assumed that there weren't any good/appropriate places to mess around with hooks & cam hooks. Now I know better! :-)

bergbryce

Mountain climber

South Lake Tahoe, CA

Sep 12, 2011 - 02:08pm PT

Yeah, that volcanic stuff has all kinds of tiny things to hook on. You can have a lot of fun working horizontal traverses on hooks there and don't have to worry if you pop.

Not nearly as sick as the GeoMorph Wall though ;-)

PellucidWombat

Mountain climber

Berkeley, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2011 - 03:07pm PT

BTW, a little off topic, but I aided The Crack (5.10b R) on Beaver Street Wall yesterday evening (on TR since I didn't know if it would go).

What would you-all think this is rated as an aid climb? C2? C2+? Just trying to get a feel for ratings here.

It was tricky! It was a pretty interesting climb, requiring a short free section to mantel a ledge, but the rest I did mostly in my aiders since I was wearing boots. I used a #000 & #00 3CU, 2x#0.4 & 1#1 4CU, 1 offset DMM brass micronut, 1 large offset DMM nut, 1 nut cable on a hangerless bolt, a #1 & #2 Ball Nutz, 1 pink tricam in a flaring pocket & a number of fairly bomber hook placements - 1 section had 2-3 hooking moves in a row between pro, and the start requires free-climbing or a hook move to reach the first placement.

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Sep 12, 2011 - 03:25pm PT

Aiding expansion cracks is tricky on cams, as I've had them pop right as they won't grip smooth concrete. In general I'd say concrete is harder to aid than granite because there can be voids in the concrete and it is more likely to blow out than granite.