What is "Mind?"

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BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 8, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
The opinions on this thread are really diverse. We are lucky to have Largo and Mike, just as I am grateful for Ed H.

We've learned all of this stuff about nature. It is incredibly complex and beautiful. Yes, scientists can see beauty in answers which nature provides. They are not drones.

We have three camps:

1) Religious dogma: BB, Go-B and Werner.

2) Internal Mental voyagers: Mike, Largo, and PSP.

3) Physical scientists: Ed is the kahuna. Guys like me aren't as knowledgeable as Ed.

When you religious guys see some fantastic view of the Universe, how immense and wild it is, do you frantically try to dismiss it as wrong?

The Zen voyagers are kinda like scientists IMO. It doesn't seem that they believe in woo woo type spiritualism. Therefore I cede a huge chunk of this conversation to them, and I am grateful.

Meaning is an interesting word. Our newly found discoveries about the universe. Does it MEAN anything? I leave that up to Mike and Largo and PSP.

I'm not certain about any meaning, particularly in a spiritual sense in all of this new knowledge. Nature is what it is, and there is beauty in it.

I suppose that I am a back sliding pantheist. I am awed by nature, but I don't worship it.

Seriously. What does this picture mean to you people? Honestly? Don't you feel that it is beautiful? It is difficult to dismiss. If I were a serious Christian, I would say that if God created the Universe, he certainly did a good job of it.

We know that we are one planet orbiting one star. There are trillions of stars in galaxies, and there are billions of galaxies. There are so many other suns out there that it kind of makes us seem small. That is something that is difficult to convey to Christians.

Just admit that Genesis is an allegory. You can still say that God created all of this if you like. It makes God seem bigger to me. The Genesis account left out almost all of the relevant information or just got it out of order. The basics are sort of there.

Closing your eyes and clinging to a 2000 year old text written by men some time after Christ's death causes huge problems. Mainly that as science marches on, the Abrahamic religions become more disconnected. I find this a little sad, that they refuse to participate in human knowledge.

Credit: BASE104
WBraun

climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 12:49pm PT
I'm frantically dismissing the above for what it is.

A pixelated zero and ones that say in words a photo and that is all .....
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 8, 2014 - 12:59pm PT
Well its a pretty cool word and a nice picture of god as well.

DMT
WBraun

climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
Lol DMT

You're playing the field too ...... :-)
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 8, 2014 - 01:32pm PT
:)

It really does look like neurons dunnit?

DMT
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 8, 2014 - 01:48pm PT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_network_theory_topics

It really does look like neurons dun nit?

you have an actual image of the neuron interconnections? or just a concept of what it might look like?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 8, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
you have an actual image of the neuron interconnections?

No. Nor do I have an actual image of the universe, either.

or just a concept of what it might look like?

I was just thinking of all the neuron images I have seen depicted, is all. I'm not trying to make some sweeping 'I know it all by knowing nothing' statement, either.

That universe image reminded me of ones like this


And I marvel at the scalability of patterns, is all.


Carry on.

DMT

ps, my pattern recognition software still tells me the galaxy patterns still looks like neuron patterns.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 8, 2014 - 02:16pm PT

Closing your eyes and clinging to a 2000 year old text written by men some time after Christ's death causes huge problems. Mainly that as science marches on, the Abrahamic religions become more disconnected. I find this a little sad, that they refuse to participate in human knowledge.

Don't be bummed dude! Instead why not tell us how science has made you a better person.

There's NOTHING that is wrong that is written in Genesis. It's only the interpretation inwhich you have clung to that is wrong!

I look at that pic and say ThankYou Lord, knowing that all knowledge in the universe will be revealed by His promise.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 8, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
Quite the imagination you got there Dingus!

Sorta seems mystical

I guess ur software is your truth
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 8, 2014 - 02:21pm PT
I must be a mote gods eye blueblokr!

DMT
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Sep 8, 2014 - 03:30pm PT
Forgive me if I find Harris neither profound nor original (Tvash)


Me too, but he is a good communicator.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 8, 2014 - 03:34pm PT
^^that looks more like art than it does science!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 04:22pm PT
Remember though, there's way more to the mental life and its study or science than just meditation or SH's self-transcendance...



.....

dmt, I get your scales appreciation.

.....

Indeed Harris's great strength, imo, is his communication skills, esp in real time. Entire paragraphs of perfectly worded and often uniquely turned sentences can roll off his lips. Besides great communicator, I'd also say great crystalizer and great unifier of a wide range of subjects - of and for at least one important sector of the sciences demographic. But don't take my word for it. Check out the science illuminaries who follow him on Twitter. Not exactly schlups. Harris is a one of a kind. So is Niel deGrasse Tyson. Esp now that Carl's gone.

.....

Jan, did you get your Waking Up yet? I think I heard somewhere pre-orders from amazon might arrive a day or two early.

FYI: Waking Up, by Sam Harris, #1 in sales at amazon. Category: Science and Mathematics, lol!
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 8, 2014 - 05:45pm PT
i dont get much outta NDTyson, either. Now Sagan or Attenborough? Thats rare talent.
MikeL

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 8, 2014 - 05:50pm PT
Base: Meaning is an interesting word. Our newly found discoveries about the universe. Does it MEAN anything? I leave that up to Mike and Largo and PSP.

Whoa. . . don't ask me, pal. I dunno. I'm surfing.

I agree, the image is beautiful, mysterious, awe-inspiring, Base. I don't dismiss it. On the other hand, I've recently had the chance to renew my exposure to Picasso's Guernica, and it too does something to me that I can't explain conceptually. It reminds me of the worst experiences I had in a combat zone. It is terrible, and it is also awe-inspiring, Base. What does it mean?

You are a closet poet, Base.


BB: Instead why not tell us how science has made you a better person.

:-)
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Sep 8, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
Infinite Compositions in the Complex Plane &#40;1&#41;
Infinite Compositions in the Complex Plane (1)
Credit: jgill
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Sep 8, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
Amazon says the release date is Tuesay, Sept. 9

That's tomorrow!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:10pm PT
ps, my pattern recognition software still tells me the galaxy patterns still looks like neuron patterns.

of course it does, we make pictures that please us...
this is a part of MikeL's point of the dependence of our perceptions (including scientific ones) on what we "like" (what pleases us...).


what is an actual image, anyway?

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
i wish i could find a picture of an olding grey-haired African man sit'in next to a herd of Antelope holding onto his pipe while it hangs from his lips all the while smoke streams from his nose.

Comparatively to your picture, is mine an image?
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:51pm PT
Credit: Tvash
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