What is "Mind?"

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Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Oct 11, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
jogill: "Consciousness either arises (1) as a result of physical activity in the brain, or arises (2) in conjunction with such activity. Are there other options? Excluding (1), speculate on (2)."

Trick question. Show me a brain that's not connected to a nervous system with continuous sensory input, and I'll show you a dead one. As a thought experiment, supposing you could grow a brain in a glass jar, what would it think about? even an unborn baby has some awareness of its environment and sensory input before it's born. Perhaps some odd experiments have been done on this, but my guess would be no consciousness.

I.e., the third option might be, it arises from the brains modeling of its environment.
WBraun

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 02:41pm PT
supposing you could grow a brain in a glass jar

You, gross materialists, have been growing brains for years and years now.

And you still are clueless that you've been growing brains and to what a brain is, wow.

But it still takes consciousness itself to even begin to grow a brain .....
jogill

climber
Colorado
Oct 11, 2018 - 02:50pm PT
"I.e., the third option might be, it arises from the brains modeling of its environment."


Isn't that an instance of (1)?




Rationalism vs reason is a good topic for the philosophy faculty lounge.
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Oct 11, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
I guess so but then am not sure what you mean, "in conjunction with" brain activity. Only a gross materialist would think the brain can create consciousness in a vacuum lol.
Trump

climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 05:18pm PT
LOL and yet you fools are on the very verge of facing extinction.

Oh are we? The hypothetical beliefs about the future that I generate in my mind (and then use to confirm and defend my other beliefs) just can’t seem to match the certainty of yours.

Those dinosaurs sure were losers huh?! Not like our awesomeness! - the self-congratulatory awesomeness of our superior consciousness that we conceive of in our minds.

Yea, I’ve got a mind that does that kind of thing too, but other people’s mind might be fitter in that regard. If only the dinosaurs had been so adept at admiring their own consciousness maybe they’d still be around to school us.
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:20pm PT
And you still are clueless that you've been growing brains and to what a brain is, wow.

Abbey someone. :)

Abbey Normal
Abbey Normal
Credit: Mel Brooks
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 11, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
Silliness

Show me a nervous system that's not connected to a brain with continuous interaction and I'll show you a dead one. Really?

Does this one have consciousness




The strike of a praying mantis’s forelegs is so fast that, once they are set in motion, the mantis cannot control its aim. How does it ever manage to catch a fly? A moth negotiating the night air hears the squeak of a hunting bat on the wing, and tumbles out of harm’s way. How?
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Oct 12, 2018 - 05:41am PT
^ I would say yes, insects and bats are conscious but of course it depends on your definition. They appear to act intentionally according to their beliefs and goals. (Dennett) A related question people have debated here is whether they have "souls." Since I don't believe in souls,my own answer would be no.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Oct 12, 2018 - 09:29am PT
Making a distinction between rationalism and reason is a very small part of a much larger picture / argument about science and scientific research (what it is and how it gets done). “Rationalism” as a term is a cultural indicator—and a meaningful one.

A much fuller sense (“unpack”) of scholarly investigations into what scientific research looks like in the modern world, can be found in the following introductory chapter in “The Right Tools for the Job: At work in Twentieth-Century Life Sciences” edited by Clarke & Fujimura (1992). The book is likely an invited compilation of a number of studies by a number of different authors on the nature of work of science and scientists.

The introductory chapter “What Tools? Which Jobs? Why Right?” by Clarke and Fujimura presents a full summary of the general academic background and of the articles the editors have compiled for the book. The introduction can be read almost in its entirety in Google Scholar and in Amazon books (“Look Inside”).

I believe that most people here will be able to read and understand the chapter.

I chose this book, focusing on life sciences, because I thought it would be more appealing and understandable for the readers on this thread-as say opposed to some other areas of science. (There are other books and articles that look at the same issues in other scientific disciplines.)

https://www.amazon.com/Right-Tools-Job-Twentieth-Century-Princeton/dp/0691603421/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=
1539360777&sr=1-4&keywords=The+right+tools+for+the+job

https://books.google.com/books?id=GzsABAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+right+tools+for+the+job&hl=
en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwq6OGnYHeAhXHj1QKHcntCUIQ6AEIKTAA#v=
onepage&q=the%20right%20tools%20for%20the%20job&f=false

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 10:59am PT
what we already know...

"most people in their fifties aren’t ready to overhaul the deep structures of their identity and personality. There are neurological reasons for this. Though the adult brain is more flexible and volatile than was once thought, it is still less malleable than the teenage brain. Reconnecting neurons and rewiring synapses is damned hard work." -Harari

Fifties! :)
WBraun

climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 01:31pm PT
Biggest horesh!t ever said and made up in this fools mind. ^^^^^^

This Harari fool should really be ashamed and not be running his mouth trying brainwash fools like you .....
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Oct 12, 2018 - 02:07pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just a fancy-dancy rendering of the adage "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" without any accompanying empirical evidence to back it up. Maybe it's empirically true (in some statistical sense), maybe it isn't. There are plenty of anecdotes about 50-somethings reinventing themselves and plenty of teenagers who are stuck in a rut. On the other hand, I'm not climbing as hard as I did 20 years ago, so why wouldn't my brain work a little differently than it used to? I watched my father-in-law go down in dementia and saw the effects of a brain tumor on my wife. The brain makes a difference and gets older with the rest of the body.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 03:25pm PT


"V5 is firing due to V4 saturation."

Say what?

V5 (or MT) is the cortical area devoted to motion processing, while V4 is devoted to color and shape (like the pentagon) processing. V4 neurons are saturated so much that the basal/rest firing rate of MT neurons is interpreted as an actual sensory signal.



Still confused? Perhaps this might clarify...

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 07:14pm PT
The idea that great masses of knowledge need to be "unpacked", is about the avenues of subordinate learning, wanting to be considered equal to scientific discoveries without presenting something that can be verified, actually .

I was too young to have an opinion about my Polio and Rubella vaccines but I do enjoy the good things a yearly Flu shot gives.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 10:59pm PT
Don't nod off

Parasitic consciousness? What is "PC"?

Does Onchocerca volvulus share the same consciousness as the host or have it's own: separate but equal.

It [nodding syndrome] is currently not known what causes the disease, but it is believed to be connected to infestations of the parasitic worm Onchocerca volvulus, which is prevalent in all outbreak areas,[10] and a possible explanation involves the formation of antibodies against parasite antigen that are cross-reactive to leiomodin-1 in the hippocampus.[11] O. volvulus, a nematode, is carried by the black fly and causes river blindness. In 2004, most children suffering from nodding disease lived close to the Yei River, a hotbed for river blindness, and 93.7% of nodding disease sufferers were found to harbour the parasite — a far higher percentage than in children without the disease.[12] A link between river blindness and normal cases of epilepsy,[13] as well as retarded growth,[14] had been proposed previously, although the evidence for this link is inconclusive.[15] Of the connection between the worm and the disease, Scott Dowell, the lead investigator into the syndrome for the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), stated: "We know that [Onchocerca volvulus] is involved in some way, but it is a little puzzling because [the worm] is fairly common in areas that do not have nodding disease".[10] Andrea Winkler, the first author of a 2008 Tanzanian study, has said of the connection: "We could not establish any hint that Onchocerca volvulus is actually going into the brain, but what we cannot exclude is that there is an autoimmune mechanism going on."[5] In the most severely affected region of Uganda, infection with microfilariae in epileptic or nodding children ranged from 70% to 100%.[16]
jogill

climber
Colorado
Oct 14, 2018 - 11:17am PT
^^^ Whew. Nothing like worms in the noggin to dampen a thread.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Oct 14, 2018 - 03:30pm PT
Jim: The idea that great masses of knowledge need to be "unpacked", is about the avenues of subordinate learning, wanting to be considered equal to scientific discoveries without presenting something that can be verified, actually . 

Why, Jim, what do you mean?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Oct 14, 2018 - 05:15pm PT
The first thing on anyone's mind is survival.

Puny, weak, hairless humans have always been compelled to construct an advantage over other life forms that have all of the physical attributes and nascent aggressiveness we lack.

So we came up with vaccines, bullets,herbicides, pesticides, rodenticides, dams,explosives,steel,concrete,plumbing, harnessing electricity, surgery,harnessing radiation and many more ways to avoid being ripped to sheds by bears and lions or poisoned by snakes and spiders. All being due to having used our mind scientifically. What it means philosophically could only be explored once you weren't running for your life.

I'm not quite sure this level of equal understanding has been attained in our current world. I have no issue with any avenue of education but not all things are equal.
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Oct 14, 2018 - 07:42pm PT
The first thing on anyone's mind is survival.


It can be. Today this afternoon the first thing on my mind was, "Can I go there?"

At some point my survival came into doubt and shouldered aside other concerns.

This human is not bright but has the urge to look.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 15, 2018 - 09:37pm PT
The hippocampal film-editor: sensitivity and specificity to event boundaries in continuous experience
Aya Ben-Yakov and Richard Henson

Journal of Neuroscience
9 October 2018, 0524-18
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/early/2018/10/08/JNEUROSCI.0524-18.2018

Abstract

The function of the human hippocampus is normally investigated by experimental manipulation of discrete events. Less is unknown about what triggers hippocampal activity during more naturalistic, continuous experience. We hypothesized that the hippocampus would be sensitive to the occurrence of event boundaries, i.e. moments in time identified by observers as a transition between events. To address this, we analysed functional MRI data from two groups: one (N=253, 131 female) who viewed an 8.5min film and another (N=15, 6 female) who viewed a 120min film. We observed a strong hippocampal response at boundaries defined by independent observers, which was modulated by boundary salience (the number of observers that identified each boundary). In the longer film, there were sufficient boundaries to show that this modulation remained after covarying out a large number of perceptual factors. This hypothesis-driven approach was complemented by a data-driven approach, in which we identified hippocampal-events as moments in time with the strongest hippocampal activity: The correspondence between these hippocampal-events and event boundaries was highly-significant, revealing that the hippocampal response is not only sensitive, but also specific to event boundaries. We conclude that event boundaries play a key role in shaping hippocampal activity during encoding of naturalistic events.
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