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WBraun
climber
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Aug 27, 2018 - 10:05am PT
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Not rewire.
But to re-establish our true original consciousnesses
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Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
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Aug 27, 2018 - 10:18am PT
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John McCain definitely had the brain of a trauma victim, evidenced by his continuous advocacy of war and revolution in every possible situation. Plus being fossilized at some point in the Cold War, unable to adapt or assimilate new information. An obvious brain problem if you ask me.
The horrors of John McCain
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Aug 27, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
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Liked MH2's last post (DMT's, too)
What if brain editing became possible, like gene editing has. If your brain was edited, for example, to change you from a person who likes dogs to a person who likes cats, who or what would object? "You" would now be happy with cats and not so happy with dogs, and it would be part of your personality. Would there still be a part of your "essence" that preferred dogs to cats? My answer to the last question would depend on the details. As an object-oriented software programmer, I deal with this kind of thing all of the time. If the editing was only a "shallow" editing, where only the top members of a very deep memory dependency chain were edited to make you feel "good" about cats and not so much about dogs, I would say that your "essence" would include a lot of conflicting memories where certain memories are now in conflict with what caused the memory. So, yes, part of your essence would prefer dogs to cats. If the editing was "deep" and included editing all of the dependencies, then I would say that your essence would be cleaned of conflict -- no lingering effects from your earlier convictions. Btw, deep-editing seems like an extremely daunting task (it's hard enough for a simplistic risk program).
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Aug 27, 2018 - 04:07pm PT
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These dark times of the Trump administration are telling us what mind is and what it isn't. As much as we would like to believe that we are in control of our thoughts, we aren't. Fox News understands this, I'm pretty sure. I think that they understand this the best.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 27, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
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As much as we would like to believe that we are in control of our thoughts, we aren't.
That is one of the main reasons for this thread.
To learn what is mind and to keep it under control of its runaway accepting and rejecting of everything in the material world .....
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Aug 27, 2018 - 08:12pm PT
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Lituya,
Read the article a bit more closely. The researchers referenced in that article (and others on the same topic) have nothing specific to say about the newly discovered brain cell and consciousness.
It’s a catchy headline constructed by a writer. Wait for the reviewed journal publication.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 27, 2018 - 08:16pm PT
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It may be unique to the human brain
Just guessing again
And it’s found in the same area thought to be responsible for consciousness.
And more guessing,
the bedrock foundation of modern science .....
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Aug 27, 2018 - 09:11pm PT
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If the editing was only a "shallow" editing,
Good caveat, Greg. Brain editing is almost pure speculation and will stay that way, I hope. Fox News doesn't even wet my toes. I think I've only seen it once.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 27, 2018 - 09:31pm PT
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Lituya's link:
Transcriptomic and morphophysiological evidence for a specialized human cortical GABAergic cell type
Nature Neuroscience (2018)
Eszter Boldog, Trygve E. Bakken, Rebecca D. Hodge, Mark Novotny, Brian D. Aevermann, Judith Baka, Sándor Bordé, Jennie L. Close, Francisco Diez-Fuertes, Song-Lin Ding, Nóra Faragó, Ágnes K. Kocsis, Balázs Kovács, Zoe Maltzer, Jamison M. McCorrison, Jeremy A. Miller, Gábor Molnár, Gáspár Oláh, Attila Ozsvár, Márton Rózsa, Soraya I. Shehata, Kimberly A. Smith, Susan M. Sunkin, Danny N. Tran, Pratap Venepally, Abby Wall, László G. Puskás, Pál Barzó, Frank J. Steemers, Nicholas J. Schork, Richard H. Scheuermann, Roger S. Lasken, Ed S. Lein & Gábor Tamás
Abstract
We describe convergent evidence from transcriptomics, morphology, and physiology for a specialized GABAergic neuron subtype in human cortex. Using unbiased single-nucleus RNA sequencing, we identify ten GABAergic interneuron subtypes with combinatorial gene signatures in human cortical layer 1 and characterize a group of human interneurons with anatomical features never described in rodents, having large ‘rosehip’-like axonal boutons and compact arborization. These rosehip cells show an immunohistochemical profile (GAD1⁺CCK⁺, CNR1⁻SST⁻CALB2⁻PVALB⁻) matching a single transcriptomically defined cell type whose specific molecular marker signature is not seen in mouse cortex. Rosehip cells in layer 1 make homotypic gap junctions, predominantly target apical dendritic shafts of layer 3 pyramidal neurons, and inhibit backpropagating pyramidal action potentials in microdomains of the dendritic tuft. These cells are therefore positioned for potent local control of distal dendritic computation in cortical pyramidal neurons.
the biorxiv version is here
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 27, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
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APOPTOSIS O' De Cortex
One brain gathers what another brain spills
GABAergic (first intimated to exist in Freaks)
I always like to fast forward to the conclusions and sales pitch for further funding page which saves wear & tear on the newrones
There is great promise in convergent transcriptomic, anatomical and functional studies in human cortex to establish which features are conserved and divergent among mammals, and these studies are now feasible. The function of neuron types specific to the human circuit could be important in understanding pathological alterations of network functions. For example, several highly selective markers for rosehip cells have been implicated as risk factors for neuropsychiatric disease, including netrin G1 (NTNG1) for Rett syndrome 61 and neurotrypsin(PRSS12) for mental retardation 62. A better understanding of human cellular and circuit organization may help counteract the current lack of success in translating promising rodent results to effective treatment against human neuropsychiatric disorders 63,64.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 27, 2018 - 10:23pm PT
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A team of scientists today unveiled the discovery of a new kind of brain neuron called the rosehip cell. What makes this find important? It may be unique to the human brain – and it’s found in the same area thought to be responsible for consciousness.a
Was any of this speculation cleared thru th the ST Committee?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VB9jl9vP2E0
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2018 - 10:42pm PT
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It always seems to come down to this notion you have, that physical means something hard and fast; unchanging.
Nope. Physical does not mean that. The philosophical thought experiment you cited has a flawed premise.
-----
Whiffed again, Dingus.
These are subtle waters, not cut and dry, not black and white.
The question is, what does "ship" actually mean. The DEFINITION of "ship" does not change. The words to describe it remain the same, dictionary to dictionary, while as we know, owing to entropy and other factors, the physical, external object (a given ship) is always in the process of change, subtle as that might be.
So what is the limit of that definition - the simple passage of time and wear and tear on said ship, or the total replacement of all the original parts?
What is flawed in Democrities' original premise per his 3,000 year old thought experiment?
Another interesting thing to note per mysterianism is how it has evolved as people have thought it over as the years pass. Relative to this is the logical howler that if a mechanistic "explanation" for mind cannot be demonstrated, then we are automatically thrust into the rabbit hole of "religion." Few who make this logical error realize that this appeal to "God" is itself a last grasping after a causal/mechanistic model, it's just that God has been swaped out for an observable or implied physical cause.
No cigar. You have to venture outside all "creation" models to get what they are driving at. Again, just to remind, when Nagel said, The issue of consciousness is not a causal question, he is driving home the point apparently lost on those still clasping the causal model as an epistemic life raft.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Aug 27, 2018 - 10:49pm PT
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From a purely evolutionary point of view, mysterianism would seem valid. Each species has its limits. Meanwhile all the great spiritual traditions of the world say that man's greatest fault is his egoistic pride. I would think this applies to the quest to know everything, including the nature of consciousness.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 28, 2018 - 12:08am PT
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What is flawed in Democrities' original premise per his 3,000 year old thought experiment?
what is a ship?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 28, 2018 - 12:10am PT
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From a purely evolutionary point of view, mysterianism would seem valid.
that seems a reach
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 28, 2018 - 07:52am PT
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It's a construction of man, a means of conveyance across water or air.
Excellent!!!
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