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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Feb 19, 2017 - 05:02pm PT
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So curious, if I post my name and I post a picture climbing then I will have the cred to meet some standard, your standard?
Will I have to post my degrees too and my SAT and GRE scores? What about my MCAT scores? Will my climbing pic have to be a Grade IV 5.11+ or will a single pitch 5.7 do?
lol
How about my tax return?
...
Where I am not real or keeping it real, you be sure to let me know, eh?
Ad ideam. (look it up)
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 19, 2017 - 05:13pm PT
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Mannnn are you ever insecure and walk on needles .....
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Feb 19, 2017 - 05:29pm PT
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Speaking of disambiguation, Gnome.
Rudolf Lipchitz
Seymour Lipschutz
Lewis Lipschutz
http://www.google.com/patents/US3359851
I had a text on probability written by Seymour.
John Gill has mentioned Rudolf, I think.
And I believe that I climbed at the Gunks with Lewis's son Marc.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Feb 19, 2017 - 05:45pm PT
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Ha! just caught this one...
Show a little courage. I seem to recall you getting into an argument with Ed over electrical resistance, and coming out second place.
I don't think so. Just the opposite.
But that's pretty slick strategy... to try to spread it around some... Good social game?
and coming out second place.
you again speak from expertise (in this case, in ohm's law and ohmic circuits and their idioms and nomenclature)? or from naivete?
I'm picking up on a pattern here. lol
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 19, 2017 - 05:48pm PT
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HFCS was correct that a filament on a light bulb has a temperature dependent resistance.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Feb 19, 2017 - 05:52pm PT
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Thank you, Ed.
But let me say, I also appreciated your pointing out that in the strictest sense so-called "Ohm's Law" applies to ohmic resistances (not nonohmic ones).
I had overlooked that strict textbook definition (or derivation) after years and years in the lab.
In practice, "Ohm's Law" becomes shorthand for E=IR.
HFCS was correct that a filament on a light bulb has a temperature dependent resistance.
Also, that "Ohm's Law" (I=V/R) could be used to calculate current, say, at any known resistance and voltage. Or it could be used to calculate effective resistance of bulb filament if voltage and current are known.
....
Thread drift, Sycorax?
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Feb 19, 2017 - 06:01pm PT
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jgill:
I’m not sure that I know all that much about game theory, John. My comments come from trying to use game theory in my field.
I’m not against game theory, specifically. I’m just arguing that one needs to be circumspect about the initial conditions. Setting up the model is important. Are you realistic about the expected outcomes and the qualities of the “agents?”
Honestly, . . . anyone that characterizes human situations with a matrix has made a boatload of assumptions.
People come to models because they are confused about the situation they are facing. Rather being clear about what the problem is (and hence what the appropriate tool is for resolution), people show a tendency to choose a method of solution because they are familiar with it—not because it’s the most appropriate model to use. You’ve perhaps heard of The Law of the Small Instrument: Give a child a hammer, and you’ll find that everything they encounter needs hammering.
In studies of expertise, we find that naive subjects come to their solutions intuitively. They use theories that are metaphorical at best, but inevitably naively. (Hence, the name.) Novices (those with some training) show a tendency to choose a model to solve a problem, but rarely complete the process. They show a tendency to jump to conclusions halfway through their analyses. Experts show a tendency to study situations for a considerable amount of time before committing to a particular solution process. They complete their chosen process, and then cross-check their outcome with an altogether different process. Whereas naive subjects have let’s say two categories of a situation, a novice might have 4-8. An expert has 64 different categories, and they can slice and dice a situation into very thin distinctions. That’s why they are spending so much time in analysis.
I believe that we use various models not so much because they are analytically right, but because they give us *some* handle on a situation that gives us the confidence to do something, to move forward. What folks actually do may not at all be he appropriate thing to do, but it prods a situation and generates a set of outcomes that will in turn tell us more about what we’re facing. We use models because we feel we must do something, and we are at our wits end to know what to do.
I guarantee you that there is not any situation that a model solves. I believe oftentimes that the use (blind?) of a model creates an unintended consequence that can be equal to the very problem that one is struggling with.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Feb 19, 2017 - 06:04pm PT
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HFCS was correct that a filament on a light bulb has a temperature dependent resistance.
I was wrong. I apologize.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Feb 19, 2017 - 06:09pm PT
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I'll ack that it was a complex conversation ala tangents, posted quickly between Ed and me, and as a result there was a lot of room for misunderstanding and miscommunicating.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Feb 19, 2017 - 06:33pm PT
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We use models because we feel we must do something
What's the connection? If we felt we must do something, could we use something other than models?
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Feb 19, 2017 - 07:19pm PT
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MH2:
Great question; terrific, really.
I don’t know. I can assume that everything can be represented as a model of sorts. I grant you that. It’s about the only thing that occurs to us. (It makes perfect sense.)
I sense there is an intelligence that goes beyond anything we talk about. (Sounds hokey, doesn’t it?) Deep intelligence doesn’t seem to arise until I relax and let things be.
I’m sure this all sounds galactically stupid.
I suspect that there are more ways of knowing than can be said. I suspect that—like other areas of knowing—some training and education can increase capabilities significantly. “Noticing” appears to be key.
What’s weird?
As a starting point, look at that.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2017 - 07:55pm PT
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Per the talk about stream of consciousness, this is a far trickier technique to master - or even effectively use - than one might think. Much of the most memorable stream of consciousness stuff is internal monologue, basically thinking in words. We naturally do this all the time, semi-consciously. But when you try and consciously engineer it onto the page, and make it sound natural, you run into formidable challenges, particularly with verb tenses, or rather, the "aspects" of verb tenses: simple, continuous, perfect, and perfect continuous, all of which can be rendered in past, present, and future (making 12 iterations all told).
During semi-conscious internal monologue, we all are time travelers, oblivious to tense as we move backwards and forwards with ease. But try and put that all on paper and you enter a rabbit hole, because if you don't nail the right tense, the stream runs sideways and nobody - including the writer - can follow.
Internal monologue must be one of the mind's greatest achievements, where experience is no longer constrained by time in a decisively non-linear tango. It is in a sense the attempt to express one's experience instead of illustrating it formally or wrangling it into tidy thoughts. The visual version of this might be Jackson Pollock. His stuff looks simple to do - till you try it...
About models ... I suspect that models are the most natural means of formulating a given, diverse subject. So is contrast, ergo figurative language. We might use other means, but one wonders if it would be as effective or native to the way we operate. Interesting question is what would an alternative might look like? A non-model ... A non-map.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Feb 19, 2017 - 08:04pm PT
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I’m sure this all sounds galactically stupid.
Not at all.
Internal monologue must be one of the mind's greatest achievements, where thought is no longer constrained by time in a decisively non-linear tango.
Kryten warns Able that his intake of Otrazone will corrupt his circuit boards.
"That's what people say but whersh the evidence?"
Red Dwarf episode Beyond a Joke
release date 21 Feb 1997
writers Rob Grant and Doug Naylor
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Feb 19, 2017 - 08:24pm PT
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I suspect that there are more ways of knowing than can be said
Probably so.
we all are time travelers
It is amazing that in our minds we can seemingly travel through time. Memories and our exposures to recorded and dramatized history become visitations to the past and imagination takes us into a future.
When we conjecture and try to imagine the future, is it possible we are in fact visiting various multiple universes and witnessing them as if time were not flowing but rather a block-like structure through which we pass an MRI?
Or, as the common Riemann integral shows, as we parse an interval of time into smaller and smaller sub-intervals, down to infinitesimals, by observing what happens during each such tiny interval, effectively zero time, we can sketch a complete picture, a model, of an aspect of reality over that larger interval?
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Feb 19, 2017 - 08:45pm PT
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Sorry to be such a rube, but is that not what calculus shows?
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Feb 19, 2017 - 10:09pm PT
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Yep, in the context of math. I'm being philosophical here.
;>)
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Feb 20, 2017 - 07:14am PT
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OMG!
(Hey, John! Put down that metaphysic; you're don't know anything about philosophy.)
:-)
For my neuroscience and art friends, you might be interested in this from the NYTs:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/science/santiago-ramon-y-cajal-beautiful-brain.html?
For just my art friends, you might enjoy this short video series (about 3 minutes a piece) from Tiffany's. Inventive, fun, and informative about how technology is changing art's expression.
http://paidpost.nytimes.com/tiffany/new-ways-of-seeing.html
All of these things (math, science, art) help us to see different things differently and to recognize that seeing is a construction . . . and an artistic one at that.
Be well.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Feb 20, 2017 - 09:22am PT
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Agency and its refutation.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Feb 20, 2017 - 09:46am PT
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seeing is a construction . . . and an artistic one at that.
Seeing is seeing, hearing is hearing. Why the need to call one thing another?
Visual thinkers and artists are many, but other people think by moving things around inside their mind, not necessarily seen things, and there are auditory thinkers, people who listen to their thoughts or to internal music. There must be artists who are blind, and I feel sure you didn't mean to imply otherwise.
But, yes, I also suppose that anything made up of parts could be called a construction.
Much of science is felt and admired esthetically. The work of Santiago Ramón y Cajal is beautiful partly because it very closely reproduces intricacies of anatomy. His drawings also benefit from leaving out most of what was there, a consequence of the method for staining neurons so that they could be seen under the microscope, which for unknown reasons only colored a few neurons in each tissue section. He had to put together drawings from many slides to see brain structures and even then they are skeletal representations. But that is what makes the pictures appeal and inform.
Cajal has been an inspiration and guide to many neuroscientists. His student Rafael Lorente de Nó has been mentioned a couple times, here.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=827775&msg=829147#msg829147
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1593650&tn=12239
Largo says that stream of consciousness is a difficult kind of writing to do well. Part of that may be because of the importance of knowing what to leave out. I think that any kind of writing is difficult to do well.
Since Mike often asks us what we experience, here is an example:
In a building with many bright rooms and high ceilings, a university library, on the way out with a book and or a DVD, I meet a young man with 5 o’clock shadow who sits in a chair. He shakes his head and crooks a finger. Oh, yes, the library card. There is a boxy machine next to the man. I see my arm reach out at eye level and an invisible pen makes loops on a glass surface which are hard to see from my angle but could be my name. The man has made me a new card. I take the old one and fold it in half feeling the force increase in my fingers. A black wiggly line of cracks appears across the white of the card as the two halves meet, so I bend it back the other way and then tear it into pieces. The man is doing the same with another card but is slower. On the way out I realize that the other card was a school ID and it is my last day. I am sad that I won’t be allowed back in the building of wonder and learning or the rest of the school. Going down flights of stairs a woman says, “The West Vancouver people only care about their assets.” That isn’t true or fair. I start sweeping the stairs with the kind of broom that janitors use. The wall needs sweeping, too, and it has hills and valleys that look like bones and muscle covered with hair and that shift as I massage them, making rrrrrrrr noises like a contented dog. People go up the stairs and I hear a woman ask, “But how does anyone get in to the party?” Another woman answers, “Someone looks out the door and if they like them they let them in.” I look up and see the back of a woman’s head as she tilts it upward and her dome of short dark hair swings down. I get to the car I rented and start the drive home. Going down a steep hill a streetlight shines orange and brave against the gray sky but the light will fail as will the generation of students under their debts and menial jobs. Behind there is a car with two students and they want to go in front. One says, “Ooh, let’s get ahead of stinky,” and I think, “But it was only a fart.” Now I must remember how to get home. A map with red lines comes into my head but not clearly. It is a long drive and I can’t go back the way I came. Then an idea. If I drive all the way home I will have to come back to return the car. Why not return the car and go home some other way? I don’t remember renting the car. Now the sun is bright. It is hot and humid and the smells of fruits and vegetables come from displays on the sidewalk. Large buses block the way. Good, I can pull over and look at the map. There is the sound of a door opening on loud hinges and then footsteps. My wife has come home and I have woken up. Dreams are choppy but might serve as
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