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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 28, 2011 - 08:25pm PT
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Bad news!
I just got an email from a friend who lives in Ponderosa. In an event apparently unrelated to the Lion Fire burning nearby, the Lookout at The Needles was destroyed by fire at about noon today.
Margee is fine. The cause is not known. This is no gag, my friend sent me numerous pictures which I'll post if he gives me permission.
I am seriously bummed.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 28, 2011 - 08:25pm PT
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wow. bummer
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Jul 28, 2011 - 08:26pm PT
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WTF??
That really sucks.
I'm glad nobody got hurt. I'd imagine they won't replace the lookout due to prohibitive costs in this age of dwindling budgets.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 28, 2011 - 08:32pm PT
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An icon if there ever was one.
Actually that goes for both the lookout and its occupant.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 28, 2011 - 08:35pm PT
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Wow! I was just up there (and met Margee for the first time) weekend before last, checking out the Lion fire in part. Very sad news for a very cool lady.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 28, 2011 - 08:39pm PT
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This really sucks!
Post pics when you have em' Kris
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2011 - 08:51pm PT
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Jul 28, 2011 - 08:55pm PT
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Dude, that sucks!
Surely they'll rebuild!?
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Jul 28, 2011 - 09:15pm PT
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Sad day indeed :-(
Hope they replace the lookout.
Erik
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Morgan
Trad climber
East Coast
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Jul 28, 2011 - 09:19pm PT
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I don't know that area, but it looks like an excellent 360-degree view for spotting fires. And doesn't the fire sort of prove the need to have a lookout like that one. There must have been serious flames because the lookout seems like it's on some pretty bare rock. Maybe the staircase was a primary fuel source?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jul 28, 2011 - 09:19pm PT
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Too bad;...sorry to hear this;.......end of an era for Margee;.....during the 80s we were always happy to go visit Margee;....the lovely young lady who lived in the lookout tower at the Needles........I saw her a few years ago;...it was good to see her after a couple of decades in between. She will find a new quest in life, I'm sure.........
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2011 - 09:28pm PT
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If anyone has contact info for Margee, please email it to me? All I have is the phone number in the tower (installed last summer) which obviously will not work.
I'll send her a letter c/o the Forest Service station up there but anything more direct would be nice...
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BillO
Trad climber
Yachats, OR
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Jul 28, 2011 - 09:58pm PT
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Such sad news. Margee and the Lookout were iconic.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:27pm PT
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I can't see why they wouldn't rebuild it.
Still sucks for Margee though....
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:39pm PT
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Wow, such a wonderful piece of history ...
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:47pm PT
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Whoa. Terrible news. Glad M is okay though. RIP lookout.
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XavierLV
Trad climber
Las Vegas, Nevada
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:12pm PT
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Very sad... Good memories.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2011 - 11:16pm PT
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It's just such a loss. Not just the tower but the contents. Guidebooks annotated by great climbers, signed posters, a large collection of hand drawn topos, an amazing collection of handmade pottery, the newly restored US Navy ship's telescope, and so on... Fortunately I copied the climbing related materials with a good camera last year. Still those were originals...
Good news that Margee is okay. I hope her little kitty, named Needles, is okay too.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:21pm PT
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One in our party got her email so he could email a pic of her. I'll see if I can get it from him.
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
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Sad news...the needles won't be the same without the lookout on the skyline and Margee's cookies at the end of the day.
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Trad
Trad climber
northern CA
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:41pm PT
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So sorry to hear it! But relieved, of course, to know that Margee (and hopefully her kitten too) is OK. I only just met them for the first time last year. Best wishes for all involved...
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Fixdpin
Trad climber
Springville,CA
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Jul 28, 2011 - 11:53pm PT
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The Needles lookout and Margee Kelly are significant to the climbing history of the Southern Sierra in the same way that Camp 4 is significant to the climbing history of Yosemite. The Needles lookout must be restored. The Needles lookout is in the National Registry of Historic Places. I hope all climbers, whether they have climbed at the Needles or not, will rally together in an effort to do what it takes to restore that tower. What climber who has been there on a Sunday afternoon, enjoyed one of Margee's cookies, and enjoyed the view from her home, wouldn't want to have that experience again or make sure other climbers can enjoy that unique experience in the future? Restore the tower. Contact the Buck Rock Foundation at http://buckrock.org/ and begin the contributions. Just say you want your contribution earmarked for the restoration of the Needles Lookout. Contact the USDA Forest Service http://www.fs.fed.us/ and tell them you want the tower restored! As a local climber, I will do my part.
Patrick Paul
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Mike Martyr
climber
Sunny Slopes, California
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Jul 29, 2011 - 12:25am PT
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These are from Rex Emerson:
Its good to read Ksolem replicated the information in the guides there.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 29, 2011 - 12:31am PT
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Can't believe it :-( Glad Margee is ok, but damn
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jul 29, 2011 - 12:53am PT
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wow, unreal.
I never got a chance to go there.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2011 - 12:58am PT
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So Rex must have been aboard this ship?
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DJS
Trad climber
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:01am PT
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This is my favorite place to climb. I loved giving Margee bottles of wine and getting her great cookies on Sunday.
I am so sad.
This was her home for 20 years.
Let us ban together and rebuild a phoenix from those ashes.
Respectfully,
Derek James Seymour
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:04am PT
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blue4512
climber
Littleton
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:10am PT
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I just spoke with Margee and passed along all of your well wishes and loving comments.
Margee has been at Needles for the last 24 years and is heartboken at the loss, she would love to hear from you.
She is on facebook as Margee Kelly and her email is needleslo@netzero.net
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:22am PT
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Wow, what a trip!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:53am PT
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we loved to have the cookies!
never again so sorry :(
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CrackAddict
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:45am PT
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Wow - didn't seem like there was that much flammable material in that structure. Sad.
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426
climber
☬
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Jul 29, 2011 - 08:44am PT
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whoa, sux. I remember counting steps a la DanO in one of those masters of stone videos...glad eveyone + cat is ok
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 29, 2011 - 09:20am PT
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The burning photos are amazing and awful all at once. The Needles just won't be the same without Margee, the cat or the lookout. So happy to have been able to spend time there with all of them.
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Torey Votaw
Trad climber
Exeter,CA
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Jul 29, 2011 - 09:52am PT
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Very sad! Thank you Patrick for posting information for donations. I agree that the lookout should be rebuilt and will help out in any way I can.
Torey Ivanic
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 29, 2011 - 10:00am PT
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so ... how did this happen? clear skies, the nearby forest is intact, the tower itself is protected by bare rock and lightning rods. some wires get crossed in there? i hope there's an investigation.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jul 29, 2011 - 11:28am PT
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Truly a say day. I've been frequenting the Needles for a decade, and have hiked the stairs to the lookout countless times. I've eaten Margee's cookies on Sunday, and had the pleasure of meeting her cat last year when it was a cute little kitten.
I'm sad to hear that Margee's summer residence is no longer there. This must be quite traumatic for her. I wish her the best, and I hope that the lookout is reconstructed someday. That lookout was a historic landmark.
Josh
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
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so ... how did this happen? clear skies, the nearby forest is intact, the tower itself is protected by bare rock and lightning rods. some wires get crossed in there? i hope there's an investigation.
It was a stove fire according to the link posted up thread. Hard to understand what happened...didn't she have a fire extinguisher?
So happy to have been able to spend time there with all of them.
+1
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surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:10pm PT
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I hope they rebuild as I haven't had the chance to visit in my short climbing career.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
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Very sad news.
A fire, once started in a tinder-dry place like that, would be almost impossible to put out. If it was stove-related, then perhaps it was due to leaking propane.
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
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The Forest Service released the following report:
SEQUOIA NATIONAL FOREST The Needles Fire Lookout Tower, located on the Western Divide Ranger District within the Giant Sequoia National Monument on the Sequoia National Forest was destroyed in a structure fire today. “This is a tragic loss to the District,” stated District Ranger Priscilla Summers. “I’m relieved the person staffing the lookout tower was able to safely evacuate the tower before it burned.”
The cause of the fire is under investigation, however it was determined to be a structure fire and not in any way related to the Lion Wildland Fire currently burning in the Golden Trout Wilderness. Firefighters are ensuring the safety of visitors by closing Forest Road 21S05 and trail 32E22 that lead to Needles Lookout, and closure of the area surrounding the rock formation where the lookout was perched. The closure area includes the formation popular for rock climbers known as “The Magician” and will remain closed until the wildland fire resulting from the burning debris has been contained and the area safe for visitors.
The lookout tower was constructed in 1937-38 by the Civilian Conservation Corps atop the rock formation at 8,245 feet. A Forest Service employee, stationed in the tower, was responsible for detecting fires and relaying radio messages to a dispatcher, who in turn sent firefighters and support equipment to extinguish the reported fire. The tower was utilized as this employee’s office as well as their home for the summer months while the lookout was on duty.
Needles overlooked the Kern River Drainage, Mt. Whitney, Olancha Peak, Farewell Gap, and Dome Rock. The tower was the primary communication line for persons in the backcountry where cell phones do not work. The Needles Lookout Tower was one of the most popular places to visit on the Western Divide Ranger District.
“The loss of this historic landmark is significant.” stated Summers. “My immediate concern is for the safety of firefighters who are working to contain the Lion Wildland Fire in the Golden Trout Wilderness who have now lost one of their main lines of communication.” More information will be sent out as soon as it’s available regarding the cause of the fire, availability of the rock formation for visitors, and future plans.
From adventure journal
Luke
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:42pm PT
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How's that work?
A fire lookout tower staffed by fire conscious people looking for fire hazards and fires burns down.
Ironic ..... :-)
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nikki trauma
Trad climber
san francisco, ca
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Jul 29, 2011 - 03:17pm PT
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This is a sad day. I was up there less than two weeks ago! I'm glad Margee is ok.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2011 - 03:31pm PT
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Firefighters are ensuring the safety of visitors by closing Forest Road 21S05 and trail 32E22 that lead to Needles Lookout, and closure of the area surrounding the rock formation where the lookout was perched. The closure area includes the formation popular for rock climbers known as “The Magician” and will remain closed until the wildland fire resulting from the burning debris has been contained and the area safe for visitors.
I sure hope they have been able to contain any fires in The Needles started from falling debris.
I wonder for how long the road and trail will remain closed.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jul 29, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
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Thanks for the info and posts... very sad news.
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Jul 29, 2011 - 06:02pm PT
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I'm with you Werner. I would think we would be asking the same question if a fire station burned down.
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Burt
Big Wall climber
Blue Diamond, NV
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Jul 29, 2011 - 06:28pm PT
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Not ironic and sad in my opinion, personally I think both of you are a little out of line. I was just there and Margee and the overlook is as much part of the Needles as the climbs are. It will not be the same. I feel for her, twenty years of her life was up there in the summers, a real tragedy in my eyes. Kinda like losing a friend. I hope they rebuild and she can come back next year. Sorry WB and Chris, just a little close to home for me.
Kurt Burt
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2011 - 06:38pm PT
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The Needles lookout and Margee Kelly are significant to the climbing history of the Southern Sierra in the same way that Camp 4 is significant to the climbing history of Yosemite. The Needles lookout must be restored. The Needles lookout is in the National Registry of Historic Places. I hope all climbers, whether they have climbed at the Needles or not, will rally together in an effort to do what it takes to restore that tower. What climber who has been there on a Sunday afternoon, enjoyed one of Margee's cookies, and enjoyed the view from her home, wouldn't want to have that experience again or make sure other climbers can enjoy that unique experience in the future? Restore the tower. Contact the Buck Rock Foundation at http://buckrock.org/ and begin the contributions. Just say you want your contribution earmarked for the restoration of the Needles Lookout. Contact the USDA Forest Service http://www.fs.fed.us/ and tell them you want the tower restored! As a local climber, I will do my part.
Patrick Paul
Re-posted from upthread. Patrick has hit the nail on the head.
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Oxymoron
Big Wall climber
total Disarray
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Jul 29, 2011 - 06:46pm PT
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F*#k it. It's just a tower.
All things must pass.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Jul 29, 2011 - 06:55pm PT
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Sad and Tragic news for all of us who have been there and I do hope that it can be rebuilt. Margee let me eat 8 cookies one Sunday night after friends and I did a route on the Magician. Those cookies were just sooo good I couldn't just eat one. Now if anyone has an emergency out there it will be a long way to run for help!
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pk_davidson
Trad climber
Albuquerque, NM
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Jul 29, 2011 - 07:24pm PT
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gonna have to eat a cookie in memorandum...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
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F*#k it. It's just a tower.
All things must pass.
You're right from the standpoint that it is much more important that no one got hurt or killed. It was a fire not an explosion.
However, The Needles lookout was a very unique and special place. And a lot of why that was so was because of Margee. When it comes to climbers and climbing Margee totally gets it. The tower was full of memorabilia and pictures. So to me, a Needles regular for nearly 30 years, it was more than just a tower. Maybe more like a temple.
I do hope the tower can be rebuilt.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Crane Jackson's Fountain St. Theater
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Jul 29, 2011 - 08:06pm PT
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Noooooo! This is terrible news! I'm happy Margee is OK, and her kitty as well. But boy what a loss. I was hoping to be climbing up there next week for a while and see Margee. What a bummer.
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Jul 29, 2011 - 08:24pm PT
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Just an update to the folks about this. I'm up here now at the ponderosa after getting turned around at the needles trailhead. The trail is closed indefinitely while the forest service concludes their findings on the cause of the fire. That means that no climbers will be allowed on the trail leading into the needles proper until the service says so. The Rangers are out and policing. Sucks, I have 4 days to spend here and now i'm having to make alternate plans. I'd suggest anyone planning on coming up reconsider.
Hope everyone has a great weekend.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2011 - 08:39pm PT
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Go to Hermit Spire!!!
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Jul 29, 2011 - 10:09pm PT
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Just got the news, what a place in my life, bummer is with the state of California & our Nation there
my never be another?
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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Jul 29, 2011 - 10:19pm PT
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Certainly seems like something climbers could contribute to. A rebuild of some sort. If it was made of wood a rebuild could be attainable.
Anyone have connections with that Home Rebuilding Show on ABC (Extreme Makeover home Ed?) Seems like THAT would be good television and an awesome show for the network...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2011 - 10:30pm PT
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I just got off the phone with Margee. The fire happenned very fast, and apparently started on the roof or in the attic. Whatever.
She sends her love to everyone she has had visit her up there over the years. I told her to check out this thread too.
There is optimism that a rebuild can be accomplished. Apparently that tower can still be purchased in kit form. That solution would depend on the foundations still being intact, I presume. So there is much work to be done (and paid for.)
Right now it looks like the Buck Rock Foundation will spearhead fundraising efforts. Patrick Paul (fixedpin here) or I will keep the developments up front here as things shape up.
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Jul 29, 2011 - 10:35pm PT
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Let me know how I can help, we could set up some sort of fund.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Jul 30, 2011 - 01:01pm PT
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F*#k it. It's just a tower.
All things must pass.
There is a clue in his name.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 02:54pm PT
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From what I can gather from local news sources there are perhaps 30 firefighters on the ground in The Needles working to suppress a number of small fires started by burning debris which fell from the tower.
The dirt road and the trail remain closed to the public and The Magician remains closed to climbing.
Speaking for the Sequoia Nat Forest and Giant Sequoia Nat Monument, Denise Alonzo said:
"Four other fires were started by the tower’s burning debris that rolled down from the rock on which it was built, Alonzo said. Those fires are each less than an acre in size," she said.
“We’ve got crews out there now. We’re working on getting those suppressed,” Alonzo said. “It’s going to take us a while to put them out, but we are working on that.”
When asked if Needles Lookout will be replaced, Alonzo said it was too soon to say one way or another.
“It’s really too soon for us to speculate on what we’re going to be doing in the future,” Alonzo said.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Jul 30, 2011 - 03:15pm PT
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That could be doublespeak for no. Sucks.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 03:32pm PT
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I think it is way too soon to say.
There are other issues developing regarding land management around the Needles area as well. Some may know that President Clinton, under authority of The Antiquities Act, proclaimed the establishment of Giant Sequoia National Monument, an area of about 350,000 acres within Sequoia National Forest which includes The Needles. In his proclamation Clinton specified that the US Forest Service would continue to manage the land, as they had in the past.
Now there is an effort in Congress, being led by CA Representative Sam Farr with about 80 others to convince President Obama to switch the management of the Monument to the National Park Service. How these uncertainties and possible changes will effect decisions such as what to do with the tower, as well as keeping dirt roads open, having open camping, etc., remains to be seen.
I have been thinking about starting a new thread with more detail on this controversial topic and with links to web pages and articles presented by groups on both sides of the issue. If there is interest in this discussion I’ll put it together…
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Jul 30, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
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The actual lookout building is called a "Cab". Technically a new one, or another not used old lookout can be helicoptered in and put right in place. Not much building so to speak. There are other lookouts that could fit in the Needles lookouts place I'm sure. They are all close to a standard size, kit if you will.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 04:24pm PT
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Yeah, Margee told me yesterday that the same exact "cab" is still available in kit form. I wonder if the foundations up there are intact. I've seen video - the fire looked very hot.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 30, 2011 - 04:38pm PT
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Ksolem:
I have already sent an email to the FS asking for updates. If you could even just drop some links here we would appreciate it very much.
It is a very complicated issue made more complicated by Margee being such a great presence. If the Park Service takes it over we might want to keep the option open for it to become a wilderness.
From our standpoint the obvious answer is for Margee to get a 15 year non-transferable lease and put a new cab in that can be just as easily lifted back out. I for one would really enjoy watching the Skycrane bringing it in.
The Skycrane handles 10 ton and has a swivel attachment. The pilot can hover within a couple of inches I would guess, the ground crew could rotate it and bolt to prepared fixtures. Take maybe 15 minutes if the O& M is right.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 30, 2011 - 04:38pm PT
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Keep us updated, Kris.
I've never been there, but I'd throw some cash at rebuilding the rig. If it's a fire lookout, it should be Forest Service funded.
But if it takes private funds, I'm there!!!!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 05:24pm PT
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I'll start a new thread about the proposed change in land management there and the politics going on.
Regarding the tower, Kathy Allison, Executive Director of The Buck Rock Foundation, informs me that The Foundation would support the restoration and could be used as a clearinghouse for receiving donations and gathering volunteers. She also says she has no idea what the Forest Service intentions are at this time.
The lookout has become a very popular hiking destination. While it was iconic to climbers, by far the largest user group with an interest in restoration will be hikers. There is one school group which has hiked up to the tower from the Lloyds Meadow road every year for many years. They come up from below to the saddle west of the Magician from the north!!
There are local people like Kathy, and Patrick Paul (who posted upthread as fixedpin) and many others who know the political landscape much better than I. If we are fortunate a coalition can be brought together with positive results.
One last thing: Blue, you've never been to The Needles??!! Start training now for next summer...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 05:27pm PT
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This is The Buck Rock Foundation's page on the Needles Lookout fire. From there you can navigate back to the home page if you want to read their mission statement etc.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 30, 2011 - 05:35pm PT
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if there's a rebuild effort, i'll volunteer labor. C-6 license, finish carpentry. we have lots of similar talent on here--would go a long way towards getting it done cheaply. email me if something gets going.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jul 30, 2011 - 05:50pm PT
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I'm in with Tony....good excuse for going up, doing some good and hanging with friends.................
Peace
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Alois
Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
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Jul 30, 2011 - 06:47pm PT
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Just noticed this post. I have so many memories visiting Margee at the Lookout, the cookies and milk, the good natured ribbing Miguel and I got while telling her stories (our accents might have something to do with it), our best years spent there. The Lookout was and is part of the Needles. As Tony B. and Ron G. just stated, Kris count me in too to help with the re-building efforts.
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iroCherish North
climber
California
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Jul 30, 2011 - 07:00pm PT
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I was the Jordan LO for the previous 5 years with Needles in sight. Margee taught me everything I know about comunicating with the community, finding, and working fires.
She is also my best friend, I was there when they brought her and the boys out to the helabase and gave her a big hug from all of us who love her.
She has been with me the last 3 days, and due to all of your possitive support, she has gone from being totally devistated to responding to your passion with a driving force to see the Needles Resurection.
She asked me to post to all of you that, "If you build it, she will bake." You all have given her new hope. She is utterly moved by this positive force you all have created. As her friend, I personally thank you for lifting her up; and giving her hope.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 09:03pm PT
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Thanks for your post. I am glad to hear Margee's spirits are rising.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 11:42pm PT
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When I spoke to Margee yesterday one of the items she mentioned which was lost in the tower was a copy, signed by the authors, of the original Stonemashers Guide to The Needles and Environs. Published in 1983, out of print but still available in digital form at Vertical20 dot com.
I have a copy of that same book in like new condition. When the tower is restored I will get it inscribed for the occasion by EC Joe and Richard Leversee and put it there, the beginning of a new library.
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adam d
climber
Los Osos, CA
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Jul 31, 2011 - 12:09am PT
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That's a great idea Kris and the most appropriate possible place for it.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Jul 31, 2011 - 12:32am PT
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Kris, keep us updated on re-build efforts. I too will lend a hand.
Sad indeed, as the tower and Margee were fixtures there. A north star for anyone who spent time there in the needles for sure.
TY
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2011 - 12:38am PT
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A north star...
Well said, Tony.
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bubble boy
Big Wall climber
topanga, CA
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Jul 31, 2011 - 08:56pm PT
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jstan
climber
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https://fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5213173.pdf
The above link is to a title II Project submission form dated 2010 for Sequoia and Sierra National Forests for a “Fire Lookout Restoration Project. It involved repair of the Fence Meadow, Delilah, and Mt. Tom Lookouts. The request for Title II funds came to $13550 dollars and the projected total cost was a little over $10000.
That quote was for repair of three lookouts.It listed contributions apparently from other sources with the total final cost of just under $30000. There have been many changes and pressures since 2010. If I stick my finger in the air to detect the wind direction I would have to guess a full reconstruction of the Needles Lookout might be in the neighborhood of $50000. Don’t quote this number. A lot of much better work is required to scope this.
A critical cost element involves which paperwork functions will be billed directly to the project.
Probably no way to predict that.
Overhead
Overhead
Overhead
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Michelle
Social climber
SH60091
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wow. I always wanted to go there. Thanks for all the updates and Im glad to hear her spirits are up (though I don't know her).
keep keepin us posted!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Needs to be put back.
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The Wedge
Boulder climber
Santa Rosa & Bishop, CA
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This sucks.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2011 - 12:02pm PT
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Thanks for the link and info, jstan.
I'll be on the phone with Allison, author of that proposal, later today or tomorrow and will get her input on that overhead cost..
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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If replacing that came in a penny less than $200K I'd eat my shorts. Even if
the kit only costs $15 by the time 20 bureaucrats sign off on it and you helo
the stuff up there...
The clean-up has to cost a pretty penny too.
Granted, the FS won't honestly acknowledge the overhead.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
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The clean-up has to cost a pretty penny too.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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"If you build it, she will bake." I love it. Let's get this thing rebuilt. I'm looking forward to the day--not too far away--when my kids are old enough to make that hike and get a cookie. Please keep me in the loop.
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em kn0t
Trad climber
isle of wyde
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Ditto on previous posts offering to help with rebuild. Perhaps it could be an Adopt-a-Crag event?
Hang in there, Margee. So glad you and your kitty are safe.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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On the "Gear at the Needles" TR thread, Ksolem posts this:
The same person tells me now that the dirt road, camping area and trail are all closed indefinitely.
Yeow! This is interesting news. Can they really "close" the camping area?
Ksolem, keep us posted please.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2011 - 05:01pm PT
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I just spoke on the phone with a very helpful employee at the Tule River Ranger District. She explained to me that the upper access road (21S05) and trail (32E22) are closed right now due to the hazardous situation of debris and falling debris.
She told me their target date to reopen the area for climbing is Aug 12th, one week from Friday. I also asked about access from the lower road, as for Voodoo and was told "No, the whole area is closed." I'm not sure she quite understood that part of my inquiry and I didn't want to go into that any deeper since actually the lower road is in a different Ranger District.
I would definitely call to be sure the area is open before going up there even after the 12th. Please be friendly and polite, if they get it open on schedule this is a remarkably short closure considering the incident.
Tule River Ranger District
Springville, CA
(559)-539-2607
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selfish man
Gym climber
Austin, TX
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Kris,
what a terrible news. It was good to hang out with you and Margee at the lookout a few weeks ago and to enjoy the beautiful view from the top. Can't believe it is destroyed.
Dima
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2011 - 05:47pm PT
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Hi Dima!
Yes it was great to see you. 'till next time...
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Ok, call me a curmudgeon, but I think what's left of the lookout should be permanently removed, and not rebuilt.
Just think if there had never been a lookout, and now they were proposing to build one...the uproar against it would be enormous, don't you think? I mean building a structure atop such a beautiful formation? no way would that be acceptable these days.
The old lookout was special, magical sort of, and Margee was the best person in the world who could have been stationed there. But that old lookout was built 73 years ago, and had style and charm like no new metal prefab is going to have. I heard they don't need the towers anymore for spotting fires, and the Needles lookout served mostly as a radio backup for firefighting.
It's going to be weird not having it there, that's for sure...and don't get hurt cuz it's going to take a lot longer to get out a call for help. But on the bright side, there'll be less tourists there kicking up dust on the road through camp!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2011 - 09:33pm PT
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Yep. Yer a curmudgeon for sure!!
;-)
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Today I was climbing at Tahquitz and Tom and his brother hiked up to the Tahquitz lookout while The Princess and I were climbing.
The scuttlebutt from the lookout, who knew about it and even had pictures, is that it will not be rebuilt.
No Budget.
The unfortunate thing about this is given a reasonable regulatory climate and cooperative government agencies, I'll bet this little group of miscreants could have it rebuilt before the snow flies.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2011 - 11:52pm PT
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I mean building a structure atop such a beautiful formation? no way would that be acceptable these days.
We'll see what happens with the Needles lookout. I for one am in full favor of a rebuild, and I am told that it can be done in an authentic style although much of the internal structure would be modern.
TGT's account contradicts what I am hearing from various sources but it is too early to say. Already many people and organizations are anxious to contribute so the "no budget" may not be such an issue.
Right now there is quite a serious clean up effort up there. People are doing dangerous work in an exposed situation. I hope everyone is safe.
Regarding "less dust by tourists in camp," by far the largest group to visit the lookout have been hikers. Many hiking clubs, scout and school and church groups visited the lookout every year. I for one don't begrudge these people the excitement they get by visiting the lookout just because they are not climbers.
The lookout is a Needles icon. If it can be rebuilt - not as a new steel eyesore but in a similar style as it was - then I support that effort.
Anyone who wants to see Margee will have to visit the Jordan Peak Lookout. She will be there soon, for the rest of this season.
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Mary Moser
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Aug 16, 2011 - 11:02pm PT
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My first climb in the Needles back in 1996 was Black Magic. After a very long day, we topped out at the lookout tower. There was Margee with her freshly baked cookies! I thought I had died and gone to heaven since I had never been so hungry after climbing that formation. I am so happy to hear Margee is okay and I seriously hope we can get the forest service to rebuild.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2011 - 11:54pm PT
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Mary - The first documented technical climb in The Needles was done in 1969, a resequence of your dates. It was Dan McHale and Joe Brown who climbed Sidewalk Magic ending at the lookout.
I have it by word of reliable mouths that there was climbing done there before that, but that is the earliest which anyone recorded.
In a couple days I will post here a link to a website so people who want to see the lookout restored can contact the right people.
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peggo
Trad climber
Carpinteria, CA
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Aug 17, 2011 - 11:39am PT
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I only just met and enjoyed visiting with the legendary Margee last summer; though missed her cookies by a day.
According to the Great Divide Ranger office, Margee is now stationed at Jordan Lookout.
When I called yesterday to ask for a mailing address to send cookies to Margee, I was told that as government employees they are not allowed to accept gifts. The administrator said that perhaps if anyone wants to help, there might be a foundation to contact later on. If anyone is interested, they can call 559.539.2607 x 0
RE: clean up. I was told be the administrator at the office yesterday that they have to arrange for a hazardous materials crew to clean up debris such as burned up batteries from the lookout, etc. At that time yesterday, there was no certain date.
Happy & Safe Climbing Everyone
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Jackalak
Trad climber
pasadena
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Aug 23, 2011 - 09:40pm PT
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Can someone give me an update on the status of this situation? I'd like to climb at the needles this weekend. I haven't been there before. My understanding from what I've read in the posts is that the upper road 21S05, is closed, as is the trail starting at the end of this road. Also, the Magician is closed for climbing. Is this still correct?
With that in mind, is it possible right now to climb the other formations? I haven't been to the needles before. Can you access the needles by parking somewhere on the lower road, 22S82? Is the trail starting at that road open or have they closed that too, how do you find that trail? I read somewhere someone said the ranger district said "all of the needles are closed". But I was wondering if they are actually closing off the south east part and if anyone has tried climbing there....
If there is a way to climb there, I'd also like to hear other people's opinions of where to camp with respect to what roads are open now...
Also, if there is no way to climb at the needles right now, where should i climb instead in that general area. Would be looking for routes 5.9-11a. Dome rock Maybe? Any other ideas?
thanks!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2011 - 11:44pm PT
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I was told on the phone by someone at Western Divide Ranger District that it is a total area closure. But, access from the lower road, say for Voodoo Dome or The Needles upper (if you don't mind big time hiking) is in a different ranger district: Cannell.
So.
I don't know if the two districts are coordinating on the closure. I suspect not.
I am thinking of being there on Friday and hiking up to the upper area with some binoculars and scoping out what is happenning there. That will be too late to let you know what's up.
My best guess is that approaching from the bottom is cool as long as you avoid Magician. There is nice roadside camping right by Needle Rock Creek. 22S82 crosses the creek about 13 miles in. The trail to Voodoo is clearly visible leaving the road about 150 yds N of the creek. About 100 yds in there is a fork. Take the left fork if you are looking for White Punks On Dope, the right goes up to the dihedrals area.
If the email from your profile works check it.
KS
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 24, 2011 - 12:07am PT
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I heard they don't need the towers anymore for spotting fires, and the Needles lookout served mostly as a radio backup for firefighting.
The volunteers that man the lookouts in SoCal still are the first to call in on some fires.
When I read The Dharma Bums (?) the story of Jack Kerouc on Mt. Baker had me wanting to go do the same. The section in Peaks and poets about Gary Snyder manning his lookout is great reading.
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Sheik aka JD
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 24, 2011 - 09:11pm PT
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Last week I was ready to a throw an LA gym climber poseur girl into the Pacific Ocean.
I overheard her in the lead area, talking about a Needles 4th of July climbing trip. A few minutes later when I was near her, I asked her if the roads were open that weekend due to this year's high snow-pack. I had intended to climb there that particular weekend, but didn't go due to (as I understood it) the road still being closed.
She gave me attitude; stated, "Uh...I don't know what road YOU take, but the one WE took was fine. But uggggh; sooo many mosquitos..."
A little later, I asked her if she was aware of the lookout burning.
She looked at me as if I was (again) lying to her. I explained that the lookout was historic, that we all deeply care for Margee, and that the cause was unknown.
She then stated, "Do they KNOW whose fault it was? That woman up there seemed like a smoker. I just bet it was her."
Man, I had to bite my tongue and walk away from that punk @ss chick.
I'm uncertain which of her boyfriends dragged her up some Needles intro routes, but he should school her on the history and reverence for our Needles (and Margee)...
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Future Of Needles Fire Lookout Tower Pending
http://www.turnto23.com/news/28989296/detail.html
There are many steps to consider and complete should the Forest Service propose to construct a new tower. An assessment of the rock and foundation where the tower once sat would be necessary to determine its integrity to support a new structure. New building requirements would need to be researched and considered in any design. An environmental analysis and documentation with public review would be required. Funding for a replacement tower and the planning efforts it would require to complete will be considered. “All of this cannot be completed quickly,” stated Summers.
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ec
climber
ca
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Thx for the article link.
 ec
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Even though it the tower was there historically, it does not exempt us from having to conduct analysis and public involvement for any proposed actions at the site.”
Bureaucrat code for,
We aren't even considering rebuilding it
This isn't gonna get done without pressure from some congresscritters.
Last week I was up the South Fork of Big Pine Creek. The Forest Circus removed the log bridge claiming it was damaged in an avalanche this winter.
There was absolutely no sign of a slide big enough to move a three foot diameter log. Trees above the bridge location didn't have as much as a broken twig and there's no evidence of the log being washed down into the adjoining trees and brush. The abutments are as sound as the day they were put in.
What ever the real agenda for removing it, the public was lied to.
Point being, the only way the lookout is going back up is with direct political pressure.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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The Needles Lookout
“Porterville, Needles, Emergency Traffic. The roof of the lookout is on fire and I need immediate assistance.”
With those words, Margee Kelly called in the most important smoke report of her career. An ember from the wood stove landed on the shake roof of The Needles Fire Lookout sparking a fire that quickly spread along the roof and eventually into the attic. Grabbing the fire extinguisher Margee fought to put the fire out, even climbing up on a ladder placed on the catwalk in an attempt to get closer to the blaze.
Sequoia Forest Helicopter 522 launched from the Peppermint Helibase in a matter of minutes dropping several buckets of water on the structure in what Margee calls “a heroic effort to save the lookout.” Unfortunately, their efforts were in vain.
Margee and her two grandchildren, who were visiting her at the time, escaped without injury, and stood helpless as they watched their beloved tower succumb to the fire.
http://www.buckrock.org/Needles.html
http://blog.touchstoneclimbing.com/2011/08/help-rebuild-needles-outlook.html
Sad to see it go.
Here's a link to Forest Fire Lookout News:
http://www.firelookout.org/news.htm
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2011 - 12:16am PT
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I would love to see an authentic restoration of the lookout. District Ranger Summer's remarks seem to indicate that will not happen. A more modern lookout will never be built due to the restrictions imposed by the National HIstoric Preservations Act. Her comments look to me like a setup for doing nothing.
For climbers at this point in time the more important consideration is this. Without the high volume of hikers going to visit the tower, one of the most popular destination in the Nat Monument, will the road 21S05 be maintained and opened?
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 13, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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For climbers at this point in time the more important consideration is this. Without the high volume of hikers going to visit the tower, one of the most popular destination in the Nat Monument, will the road 21S05 be maintained and opened? -Ksolem
Let's think of the possibility of suggesting that a 'railed viewing platform,' not a full-on lookout to be the replacement structure. It could still remain a hiker destination that would lend to the road being maintained. Keeping this destination alive, would be good for the local economy as well. A lesser structure might have less restrictions for building, ya think?
'Just thought I'd run it past you guys.
ec
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Dog
climber
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Sep 13, 2011 - 05:26pm PT
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WHAT? no more cookies on Sunday?
This is horrible! Glad everyone is ok,
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 13, 2011 - 06:22pm PT
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Bureaucrat code for,
We aren't even considering rebuilding it
There is a little something called the National Environmental Policy Act, aka NEPA. Every federal action (i.e. that involves fed funding, requires fed approval such as permitting, or direct fed action) requires analysis for env impacts. This isn't "code" for anything, it's "the law".
This analysis can be as simple as filling out a form in 30 seconds and applying/documenting existing categorical exclusions that cover broad classes of actions with low to minimal impacts or as complex as multi-year, several hundred page long Environmental Impact Statements for actions with significant impacts.
Unfortunately in this case, categorical exclusions are developed by agency. For another agency, you may see a category that exemtps some category like: "installing on previously developed land, equipment that does not substantially alter land use", that could probably be applied to replacing a fire tower. But the FS does not have an extensive set of CATEX categories and likely nothing to cover this kind of action, so they would be perfoming an Environmental Assessment.
That said, when writing EAs for permit actions in another agency, I could crank them out in a week or two depending on other workload and complexity of the project. Add about three months of internal, public, and agency review, legal review etc. If the agency had the funding and will to replace the structure, they could easily have NEPA aspects covered by contruction season next year.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2011 - 06:47pm PT
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Hi ElCap,
Hey what do you know about NHPA (Nat. historic preservation act) and it's California offshoot, The Office of Historic Preservation?
I ask because the scoop I am getting from insiders is that the USFS is in favor of a restoration effort but that the NHPA and OHP could make the effort virtually impossible by requiring exact authenticity down to things like hinges and nails.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 13, 2011 - 07:33pm PT
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I do a fair amount of work directly on issues like that Kris...renovations, demolitions, etc of listed buildings within a Historic District.
It's a convoluted process. Sec 106 of the NHPA governs it all, but it brings in state actors to the process (the State Historic Preservation Officer - SHPO) as well as fed actors (ACHP- Advisory Council on Historic Properties). At the end of the day, the SHPO can't compel you to do anything other than go through the Sec106 process of consulting with them and then getting ACHP involved in mediating if you can't resolve adverse effects within consultation.
There tends to be a lot of confusion over what "SHPO will allow", when they really don't have the power to compel action one way or another. They consult and offer recommendations, and if you don't please them it can draw the process out, but there is a final remedy available to the agency to simply say in effect "we are unable to resolve issues and reach a MOA in consultation, so we are proceeding with the project without resolving adverse effects.
But from a practical standpoint, my interactions with Cal SHPO in particular is that they don't like to see replicas because it can confuse what is actually historic from what is modern/replacement/replica. Say we are building a new structure within a historical district where the period architechture is all 1930s Mission Revival. They like to see buildings that are clearly distinct and of the time period of their contstruction, yet sympathetic to the other historical buildings look within the district. So not "replica" but modern within the same general style and overall appearance (in my example, say tan stucco exteriors and clay tile roof). In this case you're dealing with an individual structure rather than blending into a district, but the overall reasoning about why they dislike replica is likely similar.
Cal SHPO doesn't have local or regional offices, those guys are all up in Sac. The process can be a PITA, but the folks that work there are nice enough folks IME.
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spsmc
Mountain climber
Swall Meadows,CA
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Sep 29, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
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Last week I was up the South Fork of Big Pine Creek. The Forest Circus removed the log bridge claiming it was damaged in an avalanche this winter.
There was absolutely no sign of a slide big enough to move a three foot diameter log. Trees above the bridge location didn't have as much as a broken twig and there's no evidence of the log being washed down into the adjoining trees and brush. The abutments are as sound as the day they were put in.
What ever the real agenda for removing it, the public was lied to.
Barking up the wrong pine tree here TGT and no lies.
Below is a photo of the broken log across the South Fork of Big Pine Creek from last June. Yes, the abutments are fine but the log was smashed by either avalanche or the high spring floods. It was originally prepped and then flown in under a heli since there is not a log this size within any distance of the crossing. With federal budgets the way they are and the Inyo having no trail crew it is unlikely to be fixed the same way anytime soon, although the FS recognizes that this is an important trail and needs to be fixed - a lot of money for what seems to be a simple log crossing.
Be like Clyde and wade it.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Oct 20, 2011 - 11:48pm PT
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Sorry if I am poisoning the well here.
I have experienced a fair amount of tomfoolery with the S. Sequoia FS. Generally, their MO is limit access to limit their work. It may be because of lack of funding, or picking up too many dirty diapers, but I have been lied to on many occasions by this arm of the FS. I can think of more than a few instances of blatant lies and disregarding of duty, so count me in the skeptical group.
Caveat. I have met good rangers there who wish to do the right things, but their upper direction is corrupt, in my opinion.
If I had to deal with some of their "customers" I would be more than a little jaded myself. The general user group in this area is pretty upsetting. Then again, there is free camping pretty much everywhere, and the general lack of rules and regulations is probably what makes this area one of the best in CA.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 20, 2011 - 11:48pm PT
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Notice that there's absolutely no lateral displacement.
It wasn't flooding or an avalanche that did it.
Insect damage?
The wading was invigorating.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2011 - 12:49am PT
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The general user group in this area is pretty upsetting.
I don't see how it is constructive to put down people who visit and partake in the activities made available in the National Forests.
Out at the end of rd 21S05 you will find mostly climbers and hikers. Now that the tower is gone the number of hikers will diminish in a big way. Is this good? I don't think so.
America today is an underexercised and increasingly obese society. A destination as spectacular as the Needles Lookout served as a draw to get folks to actually walk a few miles in the mountains. Young people who make the hike, whether with scout, school, church groups, clubs, or family might have a life changing experience.
I know because such a thing happenned to me once...
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 21, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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Let's hope they put it back soon
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ec
climber
ca
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Oct 21, 2011 - 07:28am PT
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Welcome to 'bureaucracy.' However, I truly think we can work this sh*t out.
Other than funding issues, I find waiting to remove 'hazerdous' materials after the winter is not ecologically sound. By the time spring rolls around, irreparable damage could possibly occur. WTF? Oh, yeah, bureaucracy...
ec
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Soulsurfer
Trad climber
San Diego, Ca
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Nov 11, 2011 - 01:35pm PT
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[photoid=224535]
Best of luck to Margie and the lookout tower being rebuilt. Just wanted to post a few pictures of the Needles and show some love for the Southern Sierra.
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Soulsurfer
Trad climber
San Diego, Ca
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Nov 11, 2011 - 01:36pm PT
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Soulsurfer
Trad climber
San Diego, Ca
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Nov 11, 2011 - 01:38pm PT
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Soulsurfer
Trad climber
San Diego, Ca
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Nov 11, 2011 - 01:45pm PT
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2011 - 03:41pm PT
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Nice pics. Looks like the Thin Ice - Ice Pirates - Don Juan start. The earlier one is, of course, Pyromaniac. Who's climbing?
Yaniro told me once that the Don Juan got it's name 'cause you "Don Juan" to lead it. He was just kidding of course.
I hear that there is supposed to be a meeting to discuss possibilities regarding the lookout, with the District Ranger on Sat the 3rd of Dec in Porterville. I'll post specifics when the notice goes out.
It's not 'Colorado' but it will do I guess.
Now them's fightin' words... ;-)
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Nov 11, 2011 - 05:49pm PT
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KSolem, You probably don’t remember this but on the previous page you thought I was insulting hikers. I was not denigrating anyone for how they look. I really don’t care in the least, and I am more than happy that people of all stripes get out there. Kudos.
I was referring to abusive users in Kernville area in general, not really the needles specifically. I was trying to give the forest service in sequoia a pass for often being shifty.
I was referring to the trash strewing campers around dry meadow, Kern, and Isabella. Anyone who walks out to the lookout is A-OK in my book. Hell, anyone who gets up the hill from the valley, is doing pretty good. But I have had some crazy encounters at Remington, and fill bags of trash often when I camp in this part of the sierra. Again, I love how few rules there are, but I hate how abusive many of the users are.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2011 - 06:25pm PT
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Justin I agree 100%. Thanks for following up.
I climb in the Kern Canyon north of Kerville, at both the known crags and some others a lot in the winter months. The place is dead and pristine.
Summer is another story...
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Soulsurfer
Trad climber
San Diego, Ca
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Nov 11, 2011 - 08:47pm PT
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Good guess Kris. 1st pitch of Thin Ice. The other pic of the guy working Pyromania(ic) is a guy from the Yosemite Valley area I believe. Sean maybe. Very strong and low key. And of course, just joking about Colorado.
Thanks again for keeping us informed on if we may or may not get the tower rebuilt.
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ec
climber
ca
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Nov 19, 2011 - 07:29pm PT
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News from Fixedpin, et al:
Hello,
I received this email from Kathy Ball-Allison a couple of days ago. Please forgive me if you knew this already or have received some other notification prior to this. I think this is good news and hope that there will be persistent and sincere follow through on the part of the FS. If you would like to have your name on my list of those who should be notified of any further developments please let me know and I will do that. When it comes time for "a meeting in the spring to brainstorm fundraising, volunteerism, organizing committees, ideas, project management, etc.,"; I will be happy to send out notification to all those who express an interest in being a part of this phase in the resurrection of The Needles fire lookout.
The implication here is that the FS wants to do this but will be seeking assistance from the public to help facilitate the process and raise money to see it through. We have worked with the FS before on projects and been quite successful at getting good results. Please let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Patrick Paul
From: Kathy
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 4:33 PM
To: Buck Rock Foundation
Subject: Needles Rebuild and meeting
Yesterday I received a phone call from Western Divide District Ranger, Priscilla Summers regarding the rebuilding of the Needles. This is what I gleaned from that conversation:
Originally her plan was to hold a public meeting for public input and to discuss the possibility of rebuilding the lookout. In the meantime, the District has made the decision to rebuild the lookout and is going to begin the process to do so. After several consultations, they have discovered that by classifying it as a "rebuild" instead of a restoration, etc. it can be addressed as a "Categorical Exclusion" (CE). This means they don't have to go through the NEPA/scoping process. Part of what this means is they would have to rebuild it as close to original as possible, with some ability to fluctuate based on functionality.
Due to this decision, Priscilla does not feel it is necessary or helpful to have a meeting at this juncture, but would like the Foundation and the FS to jointly facilitate a meeting this Spring to brainstorm fundraising, volunteerism, organizing committees, ideas, project management, etc. Therefore, the tentative meeting set for December 3rd in Porterville has been cancelled.
Let's keep our fingers crossed that it all goes as planned! We have included this information in the latest issue of the BRF newsletter and the FS will be sending out a press release as well (which should better serve any of you who would like to forward the update).
Happy Thanksgiving!
Kathy
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ec
climber
ca
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Nov 20, 2011 - 10:48am PT
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newsworthy bump...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2011 - 01:17pm PT
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Soulsurfer, I think that is Matt Wilder on Pyromaniac. I know that he sent it around the time when the Lion Wilderness fire was active, and that pic looks smokey...
...and the FS will be sending out a press release as well...
EC, thanks for bumping this topic.
I am awaiting with some curiousity the wording of the FS release. I guess I am confused as to why, if the decision has been made to restore the lookout, that delaying the public process is somehow helpful.
BTW District Ranger Summers will be leaving her post for retirement on 12/30. This means that the two people at the top, Supervisor Elliot and whoever replaces Summers, are new in their positions since the lookout fire. Personally I don't see this as a good time to be delaying or pushing down the road opportunities for public input.
For those who want to be heard on this matter, here's the info:
Letters are being welcomed by U.S. Forest Service officials:
District Ranger Priscilla Summers
Western Divide Ranger District
32588 Hwy 190
Springville, CA 93265
District Ranger Summers email is:
psummers@fs.fed.us
Sequoia National Forest Supervisor Kevin B Elliot
1839 South Newcomb Street
Porterville, CA 93257
A statement from Kathy Allison at The Buck Rock Foundation:
Thanks for your interest. We are not taking donations for the Needles at this time, but we are taking emails pledging support, donations, etc. You can send them to buckrock@inreach.com. We are compiling lists in anticipation of a meeting in the near future. The more pledges we get the better!
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ec
climber
ca
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Nov 21, 2011 - 09:50am PT
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bump...
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Nov 21, 2011 - 09:52am PT
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they have discovered that by classifying it as a "rebuild" instead of a restoration ...
good god, we are in the presence of genius.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Nov 21, 2011 - 12:47pm PT
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they have discovered that by classifying it as a "rebuild" instead of a restoration, etc. it can be addressed as a "Categorical Exclusion" (CE).
I'm not a bureaucrat, but that makes total sense. Since this is a structure that been there for what, at least 50 yrs., it's not as if they need to assess the impact in the same way as a new structure. It's a known quantity. It seems that the only open question is the cost of replacement. Let's hope common sense continues to prevail.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Nov 21, 2011 - 03:13pm PT
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On a totally positive note......I'm sure the lookout will be rebuilt. This is something that everybody is watching. Its a Grand Prize for that person or persons who make this project happen.My hope is that it will be rebuilt as it was and that we can all go up there and visit and climb as before.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2011 - 03:46pm PT
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Right on, Rene!! Optimism is a force in it's own right.
Edit: "As it was..." Yes, but perhaps a fireproof roof is in order.
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Tippi
climber
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Forest Plans to Repair Needles Lookout
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia
Date: December 9, 2011
Needles Fire Lookout
On July 28, 2011, the Needles Fire Lookout was destroyed in a structure fire. The lookout and tower was constructed in 1937 and 1938 by the Civilian Conservation Corps atop the Needles rock formation at 8,245 feet. The lookout overlooked the Kern River Drainage, Mt. Whitney, Olancha Peak, Farewell Gap, and Dome Rock. The Needles Lookout was one of the most popular places to visit on the Western Divide Ranger District and provided a communication link with the backcountry, where cell phones do not work
The Forest Service proposes to construct a new lookout tower with the same “look and feel” as the original tower on the same site. The lookout will comply with current building codes and safety requirements, and be constructed out of durable materials. The living and working conditions of the lookout cab will be functional and efficient. All electronic equipment will be replaced with what is currently available, and provide communication for both firefighters and backcountry users.
“There has been strong enthusiasm from many members of the public to rebuild the lookout in its current location,” stated Summers. “The Forest Service has received approximately thirty-two letters and a number of phone calls regarding the lookout, nearly all in favor of replacing this nationally recognized site.”
Forest officials are working with our partners, the Giant Sequoia National Monument Association, Buck Rock Foundation, Sierra Club, and other cooperators in support of our efforts. To obtain more information or provide comment regarding either the plan to build a boardwalk at Trail of 100 Giants, or rebuild the Needles Fire Lookout Tower, please contact Anne Thomas via email at mariannethomas@fs.fed.us or call 559-539-2607 ext. 270. Comments are due January 9, 2012.
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ec
climber
ca
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Bravo!
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Dec 12, 2011 - 01:48pm PT
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oh yes!
renewing my volunteer offer as well--just let me know--after the snow melts.
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Dec 12, 2011 - 02:47pm PT
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Great, while they're at it, why not build one on top of Tahquitz, and Shuteye Ridge, and Half Dome...since everyone loves useless lookouts so much. Meh.
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Murzerker
Social climber
Land of Goats and Tacos
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Dec 12, 2011 - 02:51pm PT
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^^^^ Rincon, I take it you don't have a "squirrel card".
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2011 - 02:59pm PT
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...please contact Anne Thomas via email at mariannethomas@fs.fed.us or call 559-539-2607 ext. 270. Comments are due January 9, 2012.
Anne Thomas is the District Planner for the Western Divide Ranger District of the Sequoia Nat Forest / Giant Sequoia Nat Monument. Please send in your comments now, the dealine is right around the corner.
Another contact is the spokesperson, Denise Alonzo. You can email her and ask to be put on the list for all press releases and announcements concerning the Needles Lookout. You will then recieve emails regarding any meetings etc.
Alonzo, Denise <dalonzo@fs.fed.us>
Volunteer work will almost certainly be coordinated by Kathy Allison and the Buck Rock Foundation.
buckrock@inreach.com
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bubble boy
Big Wall climber
Mammoth, CA
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Mar 13, 2012 - 05:43pm PT
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With any luck (I've given up on skiing) the road will open early this season...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
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The only information available right now is that the USFS plans to begin what is defined as a HAZMAT cleanup of the tower debris when they can open the road this spring. There is also a park archeologist involved in sorting through the debris for historical artifacts.
We should expect that when there are workers on top of Magician, climbers will not be allowed to traverse the slabs directly beneath the work area - the normal approach. How long this will last is not known.
I'll post up when I know more...
Hey I'll buy a six pack of top notch ale for the first climber who can send Pyromaniac after approaching from the lower road.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Mar 13, 2012 - 07:04pm PT
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Just ran into Ron Carson last Sat. We had a great chat and planned more to come!
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bubble boy
Big Wall climber
Mammoth, CA
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Mar 13, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
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Thanks for the update, Kris.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2012 - 08:38pm PT
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Hey Rene, back in the day Ron would have won that six pack for sure...
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ec
climber
ca
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Keep it alive! The process is slow, however it's going in the right direction.
The Needles Lookout
ec
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Beau19637
climber
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I have a cabin up there and have seen Margie at her new lookout. She actually has TWO cats now. They are going to rebuild it.
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