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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 24, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
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I recently got this Holubar catalog from the same fellow who sold me his grandfather's Sporthaus Schuster hardware. A classic slice of early seventies gear from this great supplier.
I will fill in the rest of the product line if folks are interested.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 24, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
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I guess by 1970 their iconic parka with the leather rappel patch was already history---or is that just a page you left out?
Here's the parka (you can see the rappel patch on my left shoulder) at work on the Lake Michigan ice cliff traverse, in that year (early-sixties) about 1000 feet of traversing with the promise of a dunking in absolutely frigid waters if you blow it.
Getting out usually involved a bit of an overhang:
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2011 - 06:10pm PT
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And all of their own hardware is long gone...
Rgold- What a classic outing! Cold Water Ice Bouldering...never quite caught on! LOL
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 24, 2011 - 06:19pm PT
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Well, we weren't bouldering exactly, but we only had a screw for each belay anchor and two screws for a pitch (these were those corkscrew units), so the basic purpose of the rope was to help the fallen climber pull himself out. We never did fall in though---I think it would have been an epic even though we were in the city. Temps around zero and woolen clothing drenched in ice water...
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 24, 2011 - 08:04pm PT
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Good to see posts from Rich.
Steve, I somehow don't imagine this was the "classic"
catalogue. There were things before this, and this was
about the time Holubar went into a real "slump," if I recall,
I mean hiring people who knew little about anything mountain
or rock related... Health problems, I think, got Roy and Alice
off track, letting others take control.
The early Holubar days, when old Roy was one
of the first, and his wife Alice... They
were a pair, believe me, full of wonderful energy. Their
pitons were ok, and they didn't have anything too frightful,
such as the Gerry death pitons where the head broke off with
one hit of a hammer... I had a nice rack of those at one time,
and we fixed most of them rather than destroy them by trying
to hammer them out. If you come across an old fixed angle in
Eldorado or around Boulder, beware...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2011 - 08:18pm PT
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Pat- Certainly not THE classic catalog but very evocative for me as I came into climbing shortly before this came out and I vividly recall some of the content. I only have this one version or I would have already posted anything earlier.
My research indicates that several companies were making ring-less angle pitons from alloy steel around 1960 but then Holubar and Gerry rapidly backed away following several well-publicized failures of Gerry pitons (as you mention) due to heat treating problems. Do you recall where those Holubar ring-less angles would have been made? Same blacksmith that made all the other Holubar pitons stamped in block letters?
I will be interested to hear how much these folks influenced the rest of the sewn goods industry along the way.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jul 24, 2011 - 10:24pm PT
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My comment wasn't a put-down or anything, just that when I started
in the late 1950's, Holubar was coming into full swing, or soon
around then, and one could go to their little downstairs store and
visit with them, get the latest on any climb, laugh with Alice,
look at pitons... It was never the same after they began the move
to "corporate," or whatever you want to call it... Same thing with
Gerry. I bought my first rope at Gerry, on layaway. Dale Johnson
worked there, and I loved when I could walk down the hill to the little
shop and look at the pitons and gear, but especially to talk with
Dale, who was one of my heroes... It was such a special thing
to get my first pack, for Christmas, that fresh fabric smell.....
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jul 24, 2011 - 11:31pm PT
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Nice, Steve
I had the Royalite II tent for years, and still own the expedition down
parka. It makes me look like the Michelin man wearing it!!!!
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Jul 25, 2011 - 03:14am PT
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I got a 1975 Great Pacific Iron Works catalog at a garage sale the other day for a Dollar. Seemed like a fun buy! I looked online and it appears Hartouni has already scanned the entirety of it in ( http://home.comcast.net/~e.hartouni/GPIW/GPIW.html ) . Neat. Thanks for bring us all the history Steve!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 25, 2011 - 10:42am PT
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Blast from the past, thanks Steve. It happens that Gary Neptune and I both worked at Holubar around then. I wrote a few words about those bygone days in Steve Levin's recent Eldorado guidebook.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2011 - 10:47am PT
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Chiloe- Please scan and post what you wrote. I don't have the Levin guide or I would do so.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jul 25, 2011 - 11:22am PT
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Steve, I had never seen this version of the Clog Hexagon (photo page 49 of the Holubar Catalog 1971) with two lightening holes on the sides. A very rare item!
On page 50, the third nut from the top is a Baby MOAC.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2011 - 11:28am PT
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Not a lot of hardware in this catalog but definitely some interesting items.
That drilled hex caught my eye too. The Chouinard Hexentric was already available so Clog's attempt at updating their product was likely pretty short-lived.
Anyone have a factory-drilled Clog hex for show?
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local
Social climber
eldorado springs
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Jul 25, 2011 - 11:45am PT
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The drilled hex is most likely a 1-1/2" Colorado Nut. Until we started using tooling to drill out a larger longitudinal hole in the hex, we drilled out the sides with a 1/2" hole. We didn't make very many of the older model.
In addition to manufacturing our little line of nuts, I worked at both Holubar in the late 60's at the Cherry Creek North location and Gerry Mountain Sports on 17th Street. We sold Colorado Nuts at both locations.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jul 25, 2011 - 11:50am PT
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It's amazing that the Forrest Copperheads are not mentioned in this complete catalog.
I suspect that local might be right as this "Clog Hexagon" seems to be shorter than the ones in my collection.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2011 - 12:16pm PT
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local- Any chance that you could post up your collection of Colorado Nuts and some more background on that company?
Any of your Holubar collection would also be very interesting, especially any ring-less alloy steel angles. Bob Culp has been trying to remember the name of the blacksmith that made the pitons for Holubar which are stamped in block letters.
The ring wafer is stamped with Holubar's import stamp for items made in Europe by Ausrialpin for them. The other wafer was made by Holubar and carries the simple block letter stamp characteristic of the mystery smith!
It is interesting that only the Forest Pinbins made it into this catalog.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Jul 25, 2011 - 12:43pm PT
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A rare view of the pre Tom Frost design Hexes! cheers
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 25, 2011 - 01:09pm PT
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I still have my Holubar Denali bag (not their name but mine) from '70 or '71.
It has been to a lot of really cold places and kept me toasty. It's even been
washed a few times and it is still in terrific nick! There's no substitute for quality!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2011 - 01:10pm PT
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I only have one dinky little Colorado Nut in my collection so I would love to see a whole selection with any luck.
Clog, Troll, Eiger, SMC, CMI and Colorado Nuts were all available before Tom stepped into the mix with an optimal shape and then an even better one. The "Eccentric Hexentric" as he likes to call the second asymetrical design.
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local
Social climber
eldorado springs
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Jul 25, 2011 - 07:55pm PT
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Steve, I don't know if there is a full set of Colorado Nuts anywhere. Maybe in some closet in Boulder, but I sure don't have them all.
This from a previous post:
"We started Colorado Nut sometime in 68, I think. We were both working in retail stores then - Holubar and Gerry's - and as far as we knew, we were the first in the US to manufacture climbing nuts. The Brits were clearly the first, with MOACs and some hexes. We basically copied the hexes, and made a continuous range from 1/4" to 1 1/2, and three sizes of I-beams, both for cord and cables. Forrest came along pretty quick thereafter, with a much more extensive line of gear.
Our first shop was in a tiny little room - maybe 6' x 10'- in the basement of 819 Lafayette in Denver. At first, we were cutting hex stock on a small horizontal band saw and drilling them out on a bench drill press. We broke a hole through a brick wall into the boiler room, so we had room to run a full 10' bar through the saw.
We eventually moved the shop to Eldorado, in late 1970 I think, and bought a proper cut-off saw, which really speeded production up. We had Triton Machine Shop in Boulder make up some countersink drill bits, which made for nice smooth holes. We also started tumbling the nuts; getting a nice bright finish.
We eventually got evicted from the Eldorado shop, and built a new shop in Marshall at Paul's new spread. By then, we had pretty much given up on Colorado Nut. Running the machines was pretty serious work - slicing through 3" aluminum I-beams with a 14" carbide tipped blade. Paul and I had blown up a couple of blades, imbedding carbide teeth in the ceiling and walls. Scary, to say the least.
We hired Jimmy Dunn and Ray Jardine for a while. (I still have a 6" I-beam that Ray made up for some hideous crack climb he had in mind - those were pre-Friends days.)
The combination of not wanting to spend 8 hours a day on the chop saw and drill press, or hiring someone else to do the work, which we considered pretty dangerous led us to give the effort up. We had twenty or so accounts at that time, and they were amazed that we just let the company go.
GPIW had just come out with the first hexcentrics, which were a superior design to our regular hexes, and although we felt we could have competed with new designs we had in mind, it would have been a considerable investment to buy extrusion dies and really get into it.
And hey, we had girlfriends with trust funds, so we really didn't need to work all that hard!
A few photos of the remains....
[photo[photo[photoid=210568]id=210567]id=210566]
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2011 - 08:00pm PT
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local- Thanks for the response. Where else did you post this stuff? I think that I missed it first time around.
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local
Social climber
eldorado springs
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Jul 25, 2011 - 09:20pm PT
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Just the text was posted on ST, not the photos.
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sibylle
Trad climber
On the road again!
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Jul 25, 2011 - 11:14pm PT
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Steve, I have some old gear of my father's from the 1930s or 40s floating around, I think, if you're interested. A lot of stuff in my mother's garage.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2011 - 11:26pm PT
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I would love to check it out, of course! We may be in your neck of the prarie late September. I'll write you once we firm up plans.
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DM88T
climber
San Juan Bautista, CA
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Jul 26, 2011 - 03:12am PT
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I enjoy seeing the I-beams again, I had forgotten them.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2011 - 11:00am PT
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Thanks for the rest of the post local!
Sorry you guys married well...LOL It would heve been fun to see where this would have gone otherwise!
Thanks for the link Clint. Missed that one!
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local
Social climber
eldorado springs
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Jul 26, 2011 - 11:12am PT
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I said girlfriends, not wives. A long life of soul deadening toil followed the break-ups.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2011 - 11:23am PT
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Pardon the fairy tale ending...
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jul 26, 2011 - 01:10pm PT
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My experiences go back even further, when their catalogue had that wonderful photo of someone rappelling off the Maiden on Flagstaff. As a novice from Georgia I could hardly believe that such a rock formation existed. I met the two of them on my first trip out west, and do recall, as Pat has said, going downstairs to their shop in Boulder. I cut off that picture and framed it when I started at Georgia Tech. Inspiring.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2011 - 01:57pm PT
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Not sure if this is exactly the same image that Holubar used but it is a classic shot! The cover shot on one of the guidebooks is the image that you are likely thinking of and has only a rappeler in it.
"Dale Johnson working on the Northwest Overhang of the Maiden on the first ascent as a climber descends on rappel after climbing the normal route." Cleve McCarty photo.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 26, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
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My favorite Holubar gear was an NP-22 parka, who else recalls those? Wasn't waterproof at all but I climbed a lot of mountains and practically lived in it for a while. There's a Gerry pack in this photo, too.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 26, 2011 - 02:55pm PT
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Chiloe- Please scan and post what you wrote.
My tale overlaps a bit with local's, you might see the same characters. Here's a scan,
But to read the story (along with others by real climbers) you all need to buy Steve's excellent book.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2011 - 04:20pm PT
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The classic Maiden rappel cover shot also by Cleve McCarty.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jul 28, 2011 - 03:43pm PT
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My 'michelin' man suit. . .
I'm trying to post the entire coat, but I seem to be having problems posting more than a single photo each session . . .
back later. . .
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 28, 2011 - 04:19pm PT
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My favorite Holubar gear was an NP-22 parka, who else recalls those? Wasn't waterproof at all but I climbed a lot of mountains and practically lived in it for a while.
I too practically lived in that parka, and, as it happens, referred to it earlier in this very thread. See http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1562234&tn=1 for a shot of the parka in (a rather peculiar) action.
Here's another shot of that Holubar parka---you can sort of see the leather rappel patch on my shoulder under the pack strap.
For you youngsters, it was typical BITD to use a Dulfersitz on low-angle rock and a "swiss seat" (leg loops with a carabiner) for steeper rappels. Both methods directed the rope over a shoulder and down the back. The leather rappel patch protected the garment and its wearer from the heat and abrasion of the rappel rope.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2011 - 12:50am PT
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And the Swiss Arm Rappel for the really low angle stuff!
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10b4me
Ice climber
Happy Boulders
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Jul 29, 2011 - 12:55am PT
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the Lowa Alpspitz was a great boot. Extremely comfortable for a mountaineering boot
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Jul 29, 2011 - 01:35am PT
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I liked seeing how Ray Jardines 6" beam looked to have been hammered in and out a few times.
When does a nut become a piton?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 01:57pm PT
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As soon as Ray gets spooked! LOL
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Jul 31, 2011 - 12:26am PT
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I have one of those hex nuts with extra holes in it, but I always called it a Colorado Nut, not a Clog. It is presently on display at the AZ Hiking Shack. Below shows Holubar 1969 Catalog which lists it as a Colorado Nut.
Rock on! Marty
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jul 31, 2011 - 12:48pm PT
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Thanks everyone! Great thread. I love the old catalogs, and stories to match!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2011 - 02:31pm PT
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Was Holubar one of the handful of Colorado Nut accounts in 1970-71?
Hopefully local will chime back in. No Clog hex that I ever saw commercially available was so drilled. I think Holubar might have been switching product lines at this time and glitched.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 31, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
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When I came to Holubar in fall 1970, they still had some Clog hexes in stock (hence the catalog). As those were sold out, they were re-ordering from Colorado Nut Co. Since the NutCo guys were my friends, I encouraged this shift and told customers they were better.
Three selling points I recall were (1) the Colorado nuts used the same size hex stock as Clog but were cut slightly longer, so their long and short axes covered a larger range of sizes; (2) even the smallest Colorado nuts had tapered ends, which the early Clogs did not; and (3) Bill & Paul soon started polishing them, which gave a nice look -- I think there was a theory that would reduce wear on slings.
The I-beams were fun too. A crack had to be just right to fit a 3" or 4" I-beam, otherwise they inspired no confidence. But the 1.75" I-beam, which looked really odd, seemed to fit cracks like a super-sized MOAC.
Actually, selling nuts in 1970 was not so much this nut vs. that one, but nuts vs. pitons.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2011 - 03:27pm PT
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Alpenbump!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2012 - 12:36pm PT
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Holu-Bump...
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2016 - 01:53pm PT
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First Bump in a long time...
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Hardshell
Trad climber
Ketchum Idaho
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I've got one in my climbing gear time capsule from 1965/66---classic old gear trip down memory lane.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2016 - 05:34pm PT
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Scan and post the hardware pages if you would be so kind.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Page 6: Kronhofers!
Shoe choice of mine and others for early climbs (60's, 70's) at Tahquitz, Yosemite and Tuolumne. Still hard to believe the level of face climbing difficulty we did in these shoes, well into 5.10, at first with no modification to the wrinkle pattern soles. Later, we resoled with smooth neoprene, good for edging but very poor for friction. Another modification: a bit of epoxy between the welt and upper and covered with hardware store rubber cement to prevent the edge from rolling, and O heck a little on the toe for cracks. Some quite incredible self delusions got us up things.
Tom Higgins
LongAgo
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
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Cats Paw Rubber or Green Dot on the resole?
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Hardshell
Trad climber
Ketchum Idaho
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scan and post the hardware pages....?? will have to get back to you on that...my IT guy has gone to college.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2018 - 08:54pm PT
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I just found these two great gear pages from the 1954-55 catalog.
The right hand page shows some of the earliest pitons made by the blacksmith Bob Bruning that started working for the Holubars once they bought some property where he had been working. Bob used tool steel so these pitons were not the equivalent of the alloy pitons made by John Salathé but they are notable as early American made none the less. Bob Culp passed this information on to me.
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