Have only 3 people redpointed every pitch of the nose?

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Orange TCU

Trad climber
GA
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 16, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
i just had an discussion with a fellow climber who claims that the nose has only seen 3 redpoint ascents, and that every one else has aided changing corners....I say bullsh*t, tons of people have freed the whole thing....let the mayhem of forum posts begin! whats is the truth!
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jul 16, 2011 - 10:30pm PT
Tons of people have redpointed the Nose? hahahhahaahaaa, what are you smoking?
Orange TCU

Trad climber
GA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2011 - 10:37pm PT
okaaay, perhaps tons was an overstatment, somewhere in the ballpark of 20 or so i'd assume, potter? the hubers? trotter? honnold? have they not done it?
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Jul 16, 2011 - 10:41pm PT
nope, they haven't.
Orange TCU

Trad climber
GA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2011 - 10:43pm PT
wow, well i feel dumb...so is the magic number really three? who has done it so far?
skipt

Mountain climber
Washington
Jul 16, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
Redpoint is a subset of Freed.

Sorry, I don't know the number.

(Don't feel dumb. Great question.)
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Jul 16, 2011 - 10:45pm PT
Lynn Hill, Scott Burke (with long term effort) and Tommy Caldwell.....thats all that I know of. And Im sure it all depends on your definition of "redpoint." For example, I don't believe anyone has climbed it top to bottom without any falls.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jul 16, 2011 - 10:52pm PT
Only Lynn Hill, Tommy Caldwell and Beth Rodden redpointed all of the pitches on one ascent. Scott Burke may have redpointed all the pitches but not on one ascent.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jul 17, 2011 - 12:00am PT
I thought Beth lead only every other pitch? (I mean "only" in the sense of swinging leads). In either case, not bad for a girl. ha
Matt

Trad climber
primordial soup
Jul 17, 2011 - 12:48am PT
lynn did it 1st
(big gap)

tommy did it
then beth did it (every pitch)

then i think (pretty sure) tommy freed the nose and freerider in the same day



scott burke put mad effort in
not aware if he has actually led every pitch free, but the closest he came in one continuous ascent was every pitch freed, but one pitch was not led free, i think there was weather pressure, no sure of details...
murcy

Gym climber
sanfrancisco
Jul 17, 2011 - 01:24am PT
Is the Jardine Traverse part of The Nose?
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Jul 17, 2011 - 01:26am PT
It's part of the free route, sadly.

EDIT: whats an alternative free variation?
Captain...or Skully

climber
or some such
Jul 17, 2011 - 01:27am PT
It is not.
It's a variation.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 17, 2011 - 01:41am PT
whats an alternative free variation?

You dyno from the top of boot flake to eagle ledge.
Captain...or Skully

climber
or some such
Jul 17, 2011 - 01:45am PT
TBD, I reckon. Get up there!
john hansen

climber
Jul 17, 2011 - 01:48am PT
I have often wondered if there was any kind of free variation from the top of Boot Flake across the King Swing to the Grey Bands but, apparently that does not seem possible. Even that would be a deviation from the original Nose route. It is too bad the Jardine traverse slightly taint's the free ascents. But still getting up El Cap free by any route is an amazing feat.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 17, 2011 - 02:05am PT
If there weren't pin scars it wouldn't go free either, so don't feel too bad about the traverse.

Redpoint = leading.

So Lynn Hill, #1.
Scott Burke redpointed every pitch, but not on the same ascent, TRed the great roof on his continuous ascent #2.
Tommy Caldwell #3

Did Beth Rodden lead every pitch? She swapped leads with Tommy on their first free ascent. Did she return and lead all pitches?
The user formerly known as stzzo

Social climber
Jul 17, 2011 - 02:08am PT
It is too bad the Jardine traverse slightly taint's the free ascents. But still getting up El Cap free by any route is an amazing feat.

Yeah, I think it's uptight to, well, get uptight about whether the free ascents were truly The Nose route. I agree that the main point is that they freed something on El Cap, whether it's The Nose or something else.

When the route went up, they weren't looking for a free climbing route. It's an aid route, so what?
Acer

Big Wall climber
AZ
Jul 17, 2011 - 02:52am PT
Here is what I could remember and find of free climbing the NOSE.

Lynn Hill - 1993 (4 days) (FFA)

Lynn Hill - 1994 (NIAD)

Scott Burk - 1998 All Pitches Free but Great Roof (TR) - (261 Days)

Tommy Caldwell/Beth Rodden - October 2005 (TEAM FREE) (4 Days)

Tommy Caldwel - October 2005 (12 HR)

Tommy Caldwell - 2005 - Nose and Freerider (24 HR)


Huber - Close but not quite




http://themountainworld.blogspot.com/2005/10/caldwell-on-burke.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Capitan

http://www.climbing.com/news/hotflashes/nosefreeinaday/
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jul 17, 2011 - 03:34am PT
Isn't the question not whether the Nose was redpointed, but whether it was enhanced? 20,000,000+ posts on the subject of enhancements on the WoS threads mean the question needs to be asked. And if the Nose was enhanced, who was the plastic surgeon?

And as with most other 'free' ascents of El Cap (apart from the West Face and Freerider), the Nose still hasn't been freeclimbed by classic standards - on sight, no trickery, preparations, or falls/hangs.
The user formerly known as stzzo

Social climber
Jul 17, 2011 - 03:44am PT
And as with most other 'free' ascents of El Cap (apart from the West Face and Freerider), the Nose still hasn't been freeclimbed by classic standards - on sight, no trickery, preparations, or falls/hangs.

Word is that it wasn't even aid climbed by those standards -- except perhaps for trickery, about which I don't understand what you mean.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 17, 2011 - 04:01am PT
As I understand it Brooke also also did all the moves on the roof, but they ran out of time for him give it a clean go.
Acer

Big Wall climber
AZ
Jul 17, 2011 - 04:33am PT
All the Nose Free climbs use the Jardine Traverse

That was put in by Ray Jardine with a hammer and chisel about 1979??
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Jul 17, 2011 - 04:38am PT
And of course the route is enhanced for free climbing by pin scarring. Wonder how doable the great roof and changing corners would be without the scars?

Peace

Karl
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jul 17, 2011 - 10:59am PT
hey there say, all.... this is very interesting... thanks for sharing...

another one of these:
wow, you learn so very much, at the ol' supertopo, type things... :)

:)
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jul 17, 2011 - 11:35am PT
Jul 17, 2011 - 01:01am PT
As I understand it Brooke also also did all the moves on the roof, but they ran out of time for him give it a clean go.

Curious how Burke "ran out of time" to lead the pitch - having spent 261 days on the route...
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 17, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
Brooke Sandahl

Scott Burke
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 17, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
Yes Brooke, not Burke. As I understand it, they were running out of time on the go with Lynn so Brooke ended up foregoing the clean go at the roof, but had done all the moves.
Mike Bolte

Trad climber
Planet Earth
Jul 17, 2011 - 12:45pm PT
Everyone seems to assume that everyone would know about every ascent. Maybe the question should have been "how many redpoints of the nose have been written up in climbing mags or internet blogs?"
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Jul 17, 2011 - 12:52pm PT
The Jardine Traverse has been bypassed by Matt Wilder, there's Glue on the Last Pitch and Chipped Holds on the Traverse into Dolt Hole so the Route has been Enhanced. . .
tomtom

Social climber
Seattle, Wa
Jul 17, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
They should call the free variation the Chipped Nose if they want to be honest.
The user formerly known as stzzo

Social climber
Jul 17, 2011 - 07:01pm PT
tomtom

Social climber
Seattle, Wa

Jul 17, 2011 - 11:24am PT
They should call the free variation the Chipped Nose if they want to be honest.

I prefer The Picked Nose
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 17, 2011 - 08:18pm PT
Enhancements and scars aside, it has YET to be freed.

SLING BELAYS DO NOT A FREE CLIMB MAKE!!!!!!!
Pate

Trad climber
Jul 17, 2011 - 08:21pm PT
redpoint is a stupid term with a stupid concept behind it.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jul 17, 2011 - 08:37pm PT
Beth free climbed the Nose in a Day, didn't she?
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jul 17, 2011 - 10:12pm PT
One of these days I'm going to do it in 2.5 days and treat the whole thing as long free climb, lead and follow the whole thing as free as I can do it.
Matt

Trad climber
primordial soup
Jul 17, 2011 - 10:48pm PT
Redpoint = leading.

So Lynn Hill, #1.
Scott Burke redpointed every pitch, but not on the same ascent, TRed the great roof on his continuous ascent #2.
Tommy Caldwell #3

Did Beth Rodden lead every pitch? She swapped leads with Tommy on their first free ascent. Did she return and lead all pitches?



@ Fet,
your logic here is discontinuous.
burke followed a portion of the climb but you give him credit for an ascent? because he led the pitch some other time?

but for beth you ask if she led all pitches? wtf?


sorry scott, great effort. by the current standard of all pitches led free and in a continuous ascent, that doesn't quite qualify.


by another standard, it would, but it seems that by that same other standard, so would anyone swapping leads the whole way
gonzo chemist

climber
Crane Jackson's Fountain St. Theater
Jul 17, 2011 - 11:28pm PT
Matt Wilder has found a free passage around the Jardine Traverse? That alone seems like big news...hasn't EVERY free attempt made use of the Jardine Traverse?
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jul 18, 2011 - 02:58am PT
# The Nose - 5.13c/5.14b *** (34p: 6 5.11, 4 5.12, 1 5.13, 1 5.13/5.14)

* Free / nearly Free ascents
 FFA - Lynn Hill 9/93
o 4 days on the continuous free ascent, with Brooke Sandahl. Sandahl freed all but the 2 5.13/5.14 pitches. He freed all the moves on the Great Roof, but didn't link them.
o Preparation (Hill): 4 days of work with Simon Nadin, and 3 days of work with other partners, including Sandahl.
o Climbing #141; includes topo
o AAJ 1994 online version
 2nd FA - Lynn Hill 9/94, in a day
o 23 hours (10pm 9/19 - 9pm 9/20)
o only 2 falls -- both on the "Houdini Corner" above Camp 6
o one previous attempt, 9/6, ended at Great Roof (too hot)
o Climbing #148
 nearly FA - Scott Burke 11/98, led all but Great Roof, which he toproped free. It was wet at that time.
o led the "Houdini" or "Changing Corners" pitch above Camp 6, which he feels is 5.14b for his body size.
o 12 days on the continuous near-free ascent.
o Preparation: 261 days of work, starting in January 1996.
During this time, he led 3 sections of the Great Roof, but did not link them.
o Climbing #185 online version
 3rd FA - Tommy Caldwell, Beth Rodden 10/05
o each led about half the pitches, and every pitch was followed free
o Great Roof 5.13c, led by Rodden, on her second try that day
o Changing Corners 5.14a, led by Caldwell, on his third try that day
o 4 days on the free push:
1. started at midnight, climbed 20 pitches to Camp 4, where they hid from the sun, using some stashed bivvy gear
2. Great Roof to Camp 6
3. Caldwell led Changing Corners pitch, Rodden rested
4. Rodden followed Changing Corners pitch, on her second try. Then free to top out at around noon.
o preparation: 5 weeks of working pitches
o Climbing #245
 4th FA - Tommy Caldwell 10/05, in a day
o only one fall, on the 5.14a Changing Corners pitch
o under 12 hours
o started at midnight, reached Dolt Tower at 3am
o belayed by Beth Rodden
o Climbing #245
 5th FA - Tommy Caldwell 10/05, linked with Freerider in a day
o two falls, on the 5.14a Changing Corners pitch
o 11 hours
o started at 1am, ran/rappelled down the East Ledges, reaching El Cap Meadow before 1pm
o belayed by Beth Rodden

Early pitches freed
* pitch above Camp 5 - 5.12d - Brooke Sandahl, 1992
* last pitch (new variation) - 5.12c - Brooke Sandahl, Dave Schultz, 1991
* variations to Camp 4 - Ray Jardine, et al, 1980
included chipped traverse to avoid King Swing
* all but 400' freed - John Bachar, Ron Kauk, Dale Bard, 1975
* Stovelegs - Jim Bridwell, Jim Stanton, 1968

from
http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eclint/yos/longhf.htm#nose

So the answer is no, not 3 people, 2 people (Lynn Hill and Tommy Caldwell), if the redpointing has to happen during a single ascent. I don't know if Beth Rodden has redpointed all the pitches individually. Scott Burke has not; he never redpointed the Great Roof (but he redpointed a lot more than all but 2-3 people have done on the Nose).
Rudder

Trad climber
Long Beach, CA
Jul 18, 2011 - 03:05am PT
Why is it always called the "Jardine Traverse" instead of the "Jardine chopped holds Traverse?"
climber bob

Social climber
maine
Jul 18, 2011 - 08:23am PT
i'd like to hear more about matt wilders free variation to the jardine traverse(nose picked)
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 18, 2011 - 09:27pm PT
@ Fet,
your logic here is discontinuous.
burke followed a portion of the climb but you give him credit for an ascent? because he led the pitch some other time?

I didn't give him credit for an ascent, I gave him credit for the original question posted: who has redpointed every pitch? But that was based on what I've read which was he redpointed the great roof, just not on the continuous ascent. But since Clint always has the best info and said SB hasn't redpointed the GR I'll agree it's down to 2 people who redpointed every pitch.

I'd like to know about Wilder's variation as well.
Hummerchine

Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
Jul 18, 2011 - 11:24pm PT
What I have always wanted to know is if The Nose has been redpointed...period! I mean, the entire route redpointed in one push with no falls? That's what we used to call free climbing...you know, you can pretend afterwards that you would gave made it without the rope.

Not to demean Lynn Hill's awesome achievement, but to the best of my knowledge she did not redpoint the entire route. Has Tommy Caldwell...or anybody?

If not, this sure seems like THE PRIZE!!!

I could never figure out why Lynn did not do it...she certainly could gave..

Maybe she just got bored with the while thang...ya, that's it...
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jul 19, 2011 - 01:38am PT
I just asked Matt Wilder about this, and he said that he did work a bit on something like a free alternative to the Jardine Traverse, but he never did it.
At around the same time, Matt freed (on toprope) a variation to the Changing Corners pitch.
So apparently Dean F may have gotten these 2 things slightly confused and thought Matt succeeded on finding a free alternative to the Jardine Traverse.
BlueGuy84

climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:12am PT

Jul 17, 2011 - 05:18pm PT

Enhancements and scars aside, it has YET to be freed.

SLING BELAYS DO NOT A FREE CLIMB MAKE!!!!!!!

So by this standard a route has only been free-climbed if it is climbed without resting at belays? i.e., free-soloed or simul-climbed

The definition of free-climbing is not standardized and the current popular accepted method of "free-climbing" includes resting on anchors at belays between pitches. Until this changes, the nose has been freed.


Jul 17, 2011 - 09:52am PT

The Jardine Traverse has been bypassed by Matt Wilder, there's Glue on the Last Pitch and Chipped Holds on the Traverse into Dolt Hole so the Route has been Enhanced. . .

Free-climbing always invloves some degree of taint, unless you are Yabo or Patrick Edlinger free-soloing butt naked...

Realistically someone could quite possibly climb the nose in a single push, without falling...then, The Nose, as a single route in its entirety could be called redpointed from ground to topout. Currently all pitches have been redpointed but the route has not seen a fall-free ascent. Let me be clear that I'm no less in awe of the achievements of the climbers who have freed the Nose.

The game of one-upmanship will always have someone saying, "Well they didn't..." in which case you could just keep picking away at the "taints" of each ascent until you got to...

an onsight, shoeless, free-solo, no chalk, no use of manufactured features like chips, glueds, or pin scars ascent...dare I say naked as well?
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