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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Jul 17, 2011 - 09:52pm PT
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I', a little late getting in on this "Thrash-The-Guide" thread, but I have to say this is just stupid form on the part of the guide.
It'd be one thing if the guide, or his flunkies, hung out and climbed in the mean time while the lazy fat-asses paying for their service to showed up. But if they were not present, f*#k them, drop the gear, un-attended gear should be dropped. Provided its not on a new, unclimbed route that has an FA in progress (which Castle Rock has not seen in some time, so f*#k off).
Good job, and honest, there is no reason to post up for confirmation of your correctness of actions.
What's better for everyone:
1. You climb on top of the unattended gear possibly causing wear, possibly leading to the death of a guide or a client.
2. You show up, see the gear, cop everything in half, and play like it was all just there when you showed up, possibly ending a day begun so badly.
3. You drop the gear and have to defend yourself in front of strangers paying to be there (so they're gonna wanna get their money's worth.
In my book, you either climb, or you don't, and if you're there to guide, you show what it takes to set up a TR so that your client gets a better understanding/respect for the sport.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 18, 2011 - 01:47am PT
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No I actually go climbing prepared to find ropes that have been fixed for months. So it is I carry a portable generator, a large screen TV, a two month supply of food, three large tents so I can put up weekend visitors, and a WiFi system so the market won't go south on me while I wait to get on the rock.
No biggie.
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Jul 18, 2011 - 04:23am PT
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Yeah Dave I would because your one of those bastard guides and after I took your gear down, I would stuff it right up my rear end, saving you the trouble of getting your hands so stinky.
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Degaine
climber
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Jul 18, 2011 - 04:45am PT
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bluering wrote:
Afterall it's unattended property. It's f*#king booty!
So does that mean that your unattended car in the parking is booty as well? How about the unattended stuff in your house when your away on vacation, or simply just away shopping, or at work (if you don't work at home)?
In other words, you're okay with stealing other people's stuff, did I get that right?
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Jul 18, 2011 - 09:57pm PT
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Degaine, Well said and should be the end statement for this thread and for "Shitguy""
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 18, 2011 - 10:46pm PT
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So does that mean that your unattended car in the parking is booty as well? How about the unattended stuff in your house when your away on vacation, or simply just away shopping, or at work (if you don't work at home)?
In other words, you're okay with stealing other people's stuff, did I get that right?
Do you have any idea of the 'booty rules'??? Really?
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Jul 18, 2011 - 10:51pm PT
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I know booty rules...
especially when it's attatched to J Lo or Beyonce!!!!
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Shitguy
Mountain climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2011 - 01:07pm PT
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Thanks for the response folks. I think alot of you feel my frustration. Skip, you're such a dork. Call the cops if you must, but you're the coward. Who would you have me direct my ire at? The unattended rope left at the crag? There was no one there. If you think I'm going to stop climbing to go find the stupid guides and lecture them on common courtesy, you must be some kind of uber troll.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 27, 2011 - 01:44pm PT
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So does that mean that your unattended car in the parking is booty as well? How about the unattended stuff in your house when your away on vacation, or simply just away shopping, or at work (if you don't work at home)?
In other words, you're okay with stealing other people's stuff, did I get that right? Sure, if you're too thick to tell apples from oranges.
Seriously though, there is a limit to how long something is left up before it might rightfully be considered booty. If you leave something up all day in the naive belief that you've somehow staked a rightful claim to something, I don't see how you can feel justifiably ripped off if you return to find it gone. Sure the person who took them is likely a jerk, but you made the theft possible, if not likely, by leaving your stuff there all day, unattended, so you share a good part of the blame.
Personally I think the better approach is just to pull the lines, not steal them. The latter is just bad karma. The real problem is where you draw the line. Just because you intend to come back later doesn't mean you've got the right to leave it there all day, overnight, etc.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 27, 2011 - 01:47pm PT
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Fat Dad, I didn't reply to that point because I thought it was obviously ridiculous.
Apples and oranges indeed!
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apogee
climber
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Jul 27, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
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apogee
climber
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Jul 31, 2011 - 03:26pm PT
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"Anyway, no disrespect to guides intended here. This is the first real
problem I've encountered with one."
So this incident occurred with a Scout Group?
That leader ('Scoutmaster Skip') is not a guide.
There's a difference.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jul 31, 2011 - 03:37pm PT
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shitguy wrote Why Skip gets up so early in the morning to hang the rope is a bit disturbing when you think about it. Here, a grown man is being WAY too enthusiastic about spending his day staring at the butts of 14 to 16 year-old boys.Any parents out there really need consider these things before you send your kids out. Let's face it, pedophile's dont take paid jobs at retirement homes. They volunteer to work with kids. When Skip is driving his van up to the crags at 5 am, all bells and whistles should be going off at this point if you're a parent. Remember, Skip isnt going climbing. The only thing that should get a person out of bed this
early is the fact they are going climbing. What is the thrill in getting up super early so you can set up to belay all day?
If you have facts, you need to go the cops. Do you know this person? I thought you didn't see the person that day, that you didn't have time to go track him down. Now you know his abusive proclivities? If you are just speculating, that's an abusive ad hominem attack and seems to show your immaturity. It makes you suspect and an internet ranter, not serious about resolving the ropes issue. child abuse isn't a joking matter and not something to be tossed about to garner people to your side of the argument and justify your rope dropping.
I bet with the permitting process we could find out whose ropes those were and have the cops catch this alleged pedo. Otherwise, you sound like just so much puffery.
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Jul 31, 2011 - 10:08pm PT
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"The client is trying to kill you, the client is trying to kill himself and the client is trying to kill the rest of the clients." — The 3 rules of mountain guiding.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 31, 2011 - 10:11pm PT
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um, you do know that rr works with scouts?
i think zeke, the op, and skip have a bright future together.
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willm
Social climber
Oakland, CA
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Climbed a few climbs at Castle Rock on Saturday and sure enough, 3 climbs were camped on right of the waterfall. I showed up with a friend "15" minutes before the group was going to arrive and the guide that was hanging out by their ropes was pretty nice about letting us lead the climb before her group showed up. Nice guides but they definitely dominated 3 routes for most of the afternoon.
On another note, we did see someone else take a 15 ft ground fall while clipping his first draw on a really moderate sport climb just right of the falls. Interesting day all together...
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Shitguy,
First of all, big props go out to you "shitguy" for choosing the perfect name for your self! Nobody could say it better than you shitguy!
You drop peoples gear off of the top of Cliffs! I don't care what the circumstance is or was, nobody should drop anyones gear from a cliff, unless they are 110% sure its abandoned, and TR's are extremely unlikely to be abandoned. If a rope was really abandoned, it would most likely be a fixed line, and you know that, since you have been climbing for a while. If you think a hanging TR was "abadonded" then again, your name "shitguy" serves you well. You don't think @ a place like castle or goat, someone (guide or not) could have (like Dave Lane posted) ran to go take a dump, forgot some gear back at the car, or had some type of emergency so they needed to leave the TR rope up for a little while, only to come back and find you damaged the gear by dropping it to the ground. I guess this recent rope dropping behavior of yours is better than say leaving a young child tied up to a tree while you go bouldering, so they wont bother you, but your rope dropping and gear damaging thing is still high on your list of lame hurtful acts!
And FYI, that gear was not mine, as someone on this forum suggested, I was not working in that Park, except for 2 weeks prior to that Tuesday. However, I do know for fact who's gear it was. He contacted me recently via a Super Topo private message, and said he was surprised when he returned to see it on the ground. And then to see your post, he was disgusted. After communicating with this reasonable kind individual, I know for a fact that he had NO bad intentions, or intentions of staking any claims, he may not have used his best judgement to leave the rope up for according to him what was "about 20 minutes", but it was not done out of malice, unlike dropping and damaging gear, which you clearly did with mal intent. Shitguy, you could have just moved his rope over for gods sake and built your own anchor if you know what you are doing, or even un-clipped his TR line and clipped it out of the way until he returned or before you left, you could have just clipped it back in properly.
How freaking hard would that have been shitguy!
You should do the right thing now and apologize to that person and buy him some new carabiners. As I am sure he would have apologized if you told him your concerns and maybe you could have educated him a bit, and i'm betting he still would apologize now to you, if only you would have voiced your concerns to him in a decent manor, but instead you have chosen to just spill bad blood.
Oh wait, I'm sorry, asking for compassion, forgiveness and reasonable actions, that's way to much to ask of a "shitguy"
You have proclaimed it yourself, congrats you are no doubt the "shitguy"
HOPE TO SEE YOU IN THE PARK SOMEDAY SOON shitguy. I know who you are now, and I know you know who I am, I sign all my posts and have linked my web site below, for you to see a picture of me. Come over and chat with me next time you see me @ Castle Rock SP. I will be compassionate(to a point)and glad to talk climbing ethics and legalities with a shitguy like yourself.
Good luck to ya shitguy!
Cheers,
Zeke Federman
President Sierra Rock Climbing School ,Inc
http://www.sierrarockclimbingschool.com/guides.html
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Hey, hey, hey. Would it be okay if we all just take a moment to grease up and lunge at each other?
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