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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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May 23, 2011 - 09:09pm PT
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Hearing them break under body weight is disappointing
I'd say it's a minor miracle if they don't break under bodyweight if the stem rotates at all when you load it.
It's pretty clear looking at it that it is going to fragile if it is twisted or pulled to the side.
Exactly right.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 23, 2011 - 09:26pm PT
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panic piece? i haven't seen any marketing brio from the company claiming these are a panic piece. is there any?
but i've heard that from at least three different incompetent salespeople at REI. but it's pretty obvious just from looking at one that it is a highly-specialized item.
if i climbed regularly in an area with vertical and horizontal deep splitters; and i had a bunch of routes that i did frequently with various cam sizes; and i wanted to slim the rack; then i'd want some. in other words, if i were a guide in the sierra, i would probably want a couple. enough to pay pro deal? maybe, depending.
so far as mode of failure, as vaino kodas demonstrated pretty neatly, years ago, in a paper linked to a well-flogged thread on another site, cam placements in flaring cracks do weird, horrific things. add in a complicated linkage/lever, and who the f*#k knows.
but those do indeed look like nutcleaner marks on that one set of photos.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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May 23, 2011 - 09:35pm PT
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I'm with Ksolem on this one...
Any piece that is intolerant of real-world vagaries in placement is too scary to stay on my rack. Plus the thing just has more joints on it, and more joints/parts means greater probability of failure. Disclosure: I've never touched one, so this is all armchair BS from me.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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May 23, 2011 - 09:56pm PT
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This debate about OP cams died for me last winter when one failed one me at Sugarloaf. You can see the crack in the middle left lobe. Caughtinside sent the cam in to OP as well, and received a similarly thorough response (though it seems they use some boilerplate language maybe?).
No more debate in my mind about this widow-maker cam:
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schwortz
Social climber
"close to everything = not at anything", ca
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May 24, 2011 - 12:18am PT
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panic piece? i haven't seen any marketing brio from the company claiming these are a panic piece. is there any?
i remember seeing this ad in climbing mags
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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May 24, 2011 - 02:40pm PT
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Stzzo - similar to what Reddirt has posted in this thread, though not as thorough.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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May 24, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
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reddirt, if you want to get rid of those cams, you can send them to me. I'll pay postage. I am serious, email if you'd like.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 24, 2011 - 02:52pm PT
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tx, i hadn't seen that ad.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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May 24, 2011 - 03:18pm PT
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With all these reports of broken cams, wonder what the ratio is of #made to #broken/issue.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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May 24, 2011 - 03:41pm PT
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I've whipped a plenty on my #2- no problems- just sayin
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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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May 26, 2011 - 10:21am PT
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Not so much too thin a link, but a 90 degree corner that is perpendicular to the forces involved. This is where a crack will start.
If you cut a piece of paper with a 90 degree v notch in the side, then try to rip it, it will ALWAYS start the rip there.
But if we climbed only if it was entirely safe, Double Cross would be bolted.
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sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
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May 26, 2011 - 11:11am PT
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I am 190 pounds of love guide and climb 200 plus days a year, beat the sh#t out of my link cams and have not seen a failure......
Ladies and gentlemen be careful with all your gear placements! Seth
ps I have cracked a BD.75 very similarly to Le Bruce's pic, BD did not give me a freebie
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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May 26, 2011 - 11:31am PT
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I don't NEED any more range than my C4s give me. And I definitely don't need a cam on my rack with the history the link-cams have...but I knew I didn't want one from the first time I saw one.
KISS.
Any cam is already pushing the KISS limit. These OP pieces blow it out of the water.
Fact is...link-cams fail in situations where other cams won't. And provide marginal and debatable benefit. There's plenty of other good, reliable product out there...and I've NEVER been in a situation where I thought..."Man if ONLY I had a link-cam right here I could climb this chunk of rock...but ... since I don't...well, I guess I just have to go back home. Bummer."
Nope.
p.s. ksolem hit it on the head when he noted that there are too many vagaries and unpredictables in climbing to rely on something that requires so much precision. I don't care what you OP fans say. =)
It only takes screwing up once...
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 26, 2011 - 05:03pm PT
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...and I've NEVER been in a situation where I thought..."Man if ONLY I had a link-cam right here I could climb this chunk of rock...but ... since I don't...well, I guess I just have to go back home. Bummer."
I've not had that experience free climbing, but I have stuck them in some flaring pockets while aid climbing where no other cam is going to hold. The link cam only held because the sides of the (partially retracted) cams were touching the side of the pocket. Not the sort of placement OP is going to put in a photo, but I've done this type of body weight placement plenty of times.
And the wide range for crack jugging on a daisy is nice.
Admittedly, a pretty specialized use.
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