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Chango
Trad climber
norcal
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May 19, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
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I would think that when a company starts paying medical bills, it then assumes liability for the incident. REI has the best return policy in the industry. It's unfair to make claims that they don't stand behind their product. Do you honestly think an indepent shop wouldn't do the same?Assuming responsibility would destroy a small shop. And if REI took this one on, it would set a precedent for future lawsuits...and potentially destroy the company.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 01:45pm PT
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"REI makes top-rated Novara bikes for all types of cycling including mountain, commuting and road." www.rei.com/brand/Novara
REI stands behind their products or it doesn't.
[Warning graphic content]:
http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/j372/ryan_lurie/Monika%20accident/accidentdamage.jpg
In November 2007, Monika Johnson was riding her bicycle along a
downtown Seattle sidewalk when the front carbon fiber fork of the bicycle, which attaches the bicycle’s front wheel to its frame, “sheared from the steer tube suddenly and without warning.” Clerk’s Papers (CP) at 57. The fork and front wheel detached from the frame of the bicycle, and Johnson fell face first onto the sidewalk, sustaining serious injuries.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/02/11/rei.pdf
In this case, REI is not standing behind their products.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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May 19, 2011 - 01:47pm PT
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As jfs mentioned, there are some very informative posts on the original thread by Big Steve about how REI is beholden to their insurance company. It would be much cheaper for REI to settle with Monika Johnson, but they are unable to do so.
In addition to the REI case, Steve mentions Yvon Chouinard's "frustration with the litigation control exerted by the insurance carriers" and Chouinard Equipment's forced bankruptcy. Interesting reading about a situation which affects us all, in the USA, whether we know it or not.
http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=20872.0;all
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 01:47pm PT
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What is VERY clear is that REI does not claim to be reselling another manufacturer's product. They hold themselves out as making the bicycle.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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May 19, 2011 - 01:52pm PT
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OK, after having posted, I went through and read the linked thread in the initial post. I stand corrected. Apparently, there is a WA law that holds coompanies that privately label stuff (REI/Novara) responsible even though they are not the mfg. So legally it sounds like holding them responsible is correct.
There are also some good posts from a lawyer on that thread indicating that REI may be in the position of being somewhat bound by their contract with their product liability insurance carrier. They may have been unable to settle and forced to fight this in court.
Sucks all the way around.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
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Thank your for posting the link.
IN THE COURT OF APPEALS OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON
DIVISION ONE
No. 65463-2-I
MONIKA JOHNSON, )
Respondent,
v.
RECREATIONAL EQUIPMENT, INC.
(REI), a Washington corporation,
Petitioner.
FILED: February 7, 2011
PUBLISHED OPINION
Accordingly, we affirm the trial court’s ruling that Recreational Equipment,
Inc. (REI) is not entitled to seek to allocate fault to the manufacturer of the No. 65463-2-I/2
defective product that REI branded as its own. We also conclude that the trial
court erred neither by finding REI strictly liable for the injuries caused by the
defective product nor by ruling that any third party claim by REI against the
manufacturer would be severed for trial
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Gal
Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
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May 19, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
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Yes, don't know how many more times the courts have to say REI is liable. Also, I read the other thread on the ski/snowboard site, and someone asks the question that I really think needs answered-who is REI's insurance provider (maybe someone already said who)? If they (REI) really have no control in this litigation, let the bad press point to where it should: The giant, apparently inhumane, Insurance company. Maybe this was already answered, but if enough people begin to point their frustration toward the insurance company (that apparently is propelling this litigation), it would (hopefully) make a difference/put pressure in the right spot.
So who is their insurance provider...? Where/who does one send a letter to?
I wish things had gone better for Monika... :(
She should have been compensated for all medical/dental without hesitation. I don't like to see the "little guy" (girl) get screwed. I do recongnize how how these giants apparently need to fight it out to establish the way future cases go, but in the meantime, Monika clearly needed to be compensated.
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reddirt
climber
PNW
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2011 - 02:01pm PT
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REI's product liability representation exists at the behest of REI, not the other way around.
Mine is a simplistic view but if an entity is going to reap the rewards of a product that is their brand, they must also own up the the liabilities of their brand.
This would be way different if it were Trek or Cannondale (or BD for that matter) equipment purchased from REI that malfunctioned. In which case I would imagine Trek, C'dale, BD would be on the hook.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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May 19, 2011 - 02:04pm PT
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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2014151086_skier07m.html?prmid=related_stories_section
Monika Johnson, experienced mountaineer, killed near Snoqualmie Pass
By Carol M. Ostrom
Seattle Times staff reporter
Monika Johnson
Monika Johnson, who died last week on a mountain peak near Snoqualmie Pass when a shelf of snow broke off beneath her feet, was not only an awesome backcountry skier and mountaineer, friends and family said, she was a generous, thoughtful friend and co-worker.
Ms. Johnson, 40, was killed when a cornice broke off on Red Mountain, dropping her hundreds of feet and burying her in snow.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 19, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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Those who blame REI need to read Mighty Hiker's posts again. In most states, the seller of a defective product is liable jointly and severally with the manufacturer, for any defective merchandise, regardless of whether or not the seller was negligent. For that reason, most sellers, including REI, do the responsible thing and buy insurance.
I'm unaware of any insurance contract that allows the insured to force the insurance company to settle for a specific sum. Instead, if the injured party makes a settlement offer within policy limits, the insured can instruct the insurance company to settle. If the insurance company fails to do so, it is legally on the hook for all damages ultimately awarded, regardless of whether the damages exceed policy limits.
The only exception of which I am aware are certain professional errors and omissions (i.e. malpractice) policies, that allow the insured to prevent the insurance company from settling. Again, I know of no policy where the insured can force the insurance company to settle.
Thus, those blaming the insurance company are on target. While I have plenty of issues with REI, which is rapidly becoming a supplier I love to hate (despite being a member since 1967 or '68), I don't think REI could do too much here.
John
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 19, 2011 - 02:10pm PT
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Tha is a tax scam if anything.
It's a marketing scam. And I totally agree.
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reddirt
climber
PNW
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2011 - 02:13pm PT
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If the fork was another company's other than REI (Novara), then that company should be liable....
liable for all physical damages, including head trauma, which may have contributed to her ultimate passing.
edit to add "Novara", an REI house brand.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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May 19, 2011 - 02:13pm PT
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Rox, are you saying that REI is not a COOP?
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reddirt
climber
PNW
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
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atchafalaya, ROX, the point of this thread is not the co-opiness of REI. It is their LIABILITY for selling their own defective product. Plenty of other threads to take that convo to.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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May 19, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
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John, I prefer to agree with what Reddirt posted.
REI's product liability representation exists at the behest of REI, not the other way around.
Just because no such insurance exists at this time, doesn't mean that it can't. It might cost more to have some say in what happens, but thems the breaks when you put your name on something.
Maybe REI should announce that they are seeking a more responsive insurer.
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Mangy Peasant
Social climber
Riverside, CA
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May 19, 2011 - 02:17pm PT
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REI is NOT A CO-OP.
So what is it then?
A public corporation? Nope.
A privately owned corporation? If so, then who owns the assets?
Are the profits distributed to anyone other than the co-op members?
Perhaps their management is overpaid...I don't know. If their compensation is extreme, that would be fraud. Even so, it still doesn't change the definition of their corporate structure.
The reason the board never changes is because, beyond the occasional fleeting internet outrage, no one ever really cares enough to run and/or vote.
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Gene
climber
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May 19, 2011 - 02:18pm PT
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If the fork was another company's other than REI, then that company should be liable....
The appeals court appears to disagree.
Thus, by imposing liability on sellers of branded products for manufacturing defects—which, inevitably, are caused by acts of the manufacturer—our legislature created a statutory form of vicarious liability that enables the claimant injured by a defectively manufactured product to recover fully from the product seller where the seller branded the product as its own.
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reddirt
climber
PNW
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2011 - 02:22pm PT
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Locker: because "the seller branded the product as its own"
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