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Stimbo
Trad climber
Crowley Lake
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Jun 14, 2018 - 06:24pm PT
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Just found out I got a wife free weekend. Sounds like the perfect time to hit Laurel Lakes. Anyone one been up this year yet? Stimbo?
The final switchback has snow but the fish seem to reward those who put forth the extra effort.
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ruppell
climber
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Jun 14, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
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Thanks Stimbo.
I think I'm going to make it a drive to Golden weekend. Hidden and Laurel. You obviously know about one but have you fished the other?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 14, 2018 - 06:54pm PT
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Trout are the Ghengis Kahns of the fish world. Introduced wherever clear cold water can be found by Western Colonialists. they have invariably decimated local fish populations and become thedominant species.
Funny...” environmentalists” who raise the alarm about other introduced species never complain about trout.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Jun 14, 2018 - 06:59pm PT
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Rainbow trout are native here but you’re right in regards to a lot of places. I think I’m correct in saying that all of New Zealand’s and Patagonia’s rainbow trout were introduced.
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ruppell
climber
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Jun 14, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
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Donini
You should look up Yellow Legged Mountain Frog.
In the Sierra, it's native habitat, the "enviros" have tried to re-introduce it. To do that they have killed off over 100 lakes that contained Golden Trout. That little stupid frog is native, Goldens aren't.
Pay no mind to the science that shows frog populations declining around the world. Let's kill off a perfectly good eco-system to help the frogs. SO f'ing stupid. Oh, and the success rate for the frogs being repopulated, 7%.
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Stimbo
Trad climber
Crowley Lake
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Jun 14, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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I think I'm going to make it a drive to Golden weekend.
I am not familiar with the other, but I will not ask where.... there are some nice gems out there. Have a great weekend. Maybe I will see you out there. jim
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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Jun 14, 2018 - 09:04pm PT
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 14, 2018 - 09:17pm PT
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BG! Great Carp photos. About 20 years back, the book Carp on a Fly inspired me to try Carp fishing on nearby waters. I had an abundant suppy of big Carp, but they were uninterested in my wet flies.
I finally started snaging them with weighted-wet flies.
Those fish run like bulls!
The "poor-man's Bonefish."
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ruppell
climber
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Jun 14, 2018 - 09:19pm PT
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You can ask Stimbo. It won't ever see a ton of pressure like Laurel does. The fish also aren't as big as what Laurel can produce but they more then make up for it in quantity. You can drive too about 1 mile of it. Then you have to walk. If you want the details I'll fill you in either here or by PM.
Have you heard any recent reports on Kirman?
Nice BG. What are you driving? If it's a 4X put Laurel Lakes on your radar if it's not already. There's a lot of places to go to on the East Side but Laurel is a real gem.
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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Jun 14, 2018 - 09:26pm PT
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The word on Kirman is that it is dead- the fish didn't survive the drought. The DFW plans on restocking with Brook Trout, but it will take 3 or 4 years to come back.
Driving my Minivan- won't be driving up to Laurel Lakes!
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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Jun 14, 2018 - 09:43pm PT
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Hi Fritz. I learned to fly fish on Carp. My local creek is loaded with them. "Carp on the Fly" by Barry Reynolds and Brad Befus was a game changer for me. I learned a lot from that book.
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Stimbo
Trad climber
Crowley Lake
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Jun 15, 2018 - 07:36am PT
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Yo Ruppell, I just sent you a PM. Let me know if it goes thru....
jim
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ruppell
climber
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Jun 15, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
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Nothing in my inbox Jim. Having that function broken is really a weak link on this site. Let me know how you want to connect and we'll make it happen.
I'm still debating where to go tomorrow. There's so much water and so little time. lol
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 15, 2018 - 07:02pm PT
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Ruppel- save a little love for the mountain yellow legged frog. They're pretty cool when you run into a lake that's lumpy with them.
As for removing fish, not stocking seems a bigger issue to me. Tiny brook trout are a bigger problem than the frogs are. The problem with the brooks is that they breed themselves small. Remove them or stock something that dominates them.
Managing the good fisheries should become a priority again, but we gotta leave some room for the frogs. Why not leave some stunted brook lakes for the frogs?
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Jun 15, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
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There’s a problem up here in south central Alaska with illegally introduced pike in a few areas. ADF&G is trying to get rid of them. They killed off a few lakes trying to do it. They’re legal to spear, shoot with a bow, etc... anglers are required to either harvest them or kill them prior to releasing. No limit on them either
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ruppell
climber
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Jun 15, 2018 - 08:19pm PT
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Ruppel- save a little love for the mountain yellow legged frog. They're pretty cool when you run into a lake that's lumpy with them.
tom woods
It's not a lack of love that preceded my post. It's a lack of success with re-population. A 7% success rate doesn't justify taking out the successful, non-native, species IMO.
As for removing fish, not stocking seems a bigger issue to me. Tiny brook trout are a bigger problem than the frogs are. The problem with the brooks is that they breed themselves small. Remove them or stock something that dominates them.
Upper Boyscout Lake hasn't been stocked since 1973. Go fish it next time you're doing Whitney. There's a self-sustaining population of Rainbows in there. They're not gonna be small.
So take stocking out of the picture, do you really believe Brookies "breed" themselves small? It's a food source issue. Small resources equate to smaller fish. Anyone who's fished Kirman will probably agree.
Managing the good fisheries should become a priority again, but we gotta leave some room for the frogs. Why not leave some stunted brook lakes for the frogs?
Because the frog tadpoles will be taken out by the Brookies. That's the sole reason for the re-introduction of the frogs at high altitude lakes. Historically, the frogs where only found in lakes above any inlet. They lived because they're was zero predation.
With the stocking of Goldens from the late 1800's that equation changed. Goldens can also thrive in the same lakes. Not only can but do.
That goes back to my original post. Is it the Goldens that are to blame for killing off all of the frogs? Or is it something else? If it is something else why take out the Goldens before figuring out what that something else is?
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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Jun 15, 2018 - 08:42pm PT
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The real problem is that fish and wildlife is living in the 50s. There are too damn many people to do put and take any longer. The ONLY thing a hatchery should be used for is to recover a population of wild fish that have had a problem for one reason or another. They should NOT be putting brookies in MYLF lakes. They should not be putting brookies anywhere in California!
They need to start managing for the wildlife and not the fisherman. Stop all plantings for put and take except at a few roadside attractions for children. Stop all trout harvesting within a few miles of a road. Let the trout return the balance of the river. If you want to eat trout go to the damn market. It is just so odd to go fish a river that is dead. It shouldn't be that way!
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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Jun 15, 2018 - 09:03pm PT
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BG
Trad climber
JTree & Idyllwild
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Jun 15, 2018 - 09:38pm PT
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Here is an excerpt from an article I wrote for Southwest Fly Fishing magazine, titled "Hatchery Versus Wild Trout in the Eastern Sierra."
"After the last ice age, glaciers retreated from the Sierra Nevada, leaving behind thousands of crystal clear alpine lakes devoid of fish; cut off from other watersheds by waterfalls; isolated by sheer cliffs and brutal topography. The first "hatchery" rainbows arrived via pack mule and coffee can in the late 1800's, seeding the first self-sustaining populations of "wild" high sierra trout. By definition, a "wild" trout is simply a trout spawned in the wild, from either hatchery or wild parents, or a combination of both, not to be confused with a native trout that was there to begin with.
After WWII the CADFG acquired a surplus air force tanker along with a talented pilot in need of a job. In 1949 a relentless aerial bombardment ensued- a bombing campaign that would go unchecked for 46 years. Clouds of fingerlings were relentlessly and repeatedly dropped into virtually every Sierra lake. Today, roughly 60 percent of Sierra lakes hold fish, and the other 40 percent is probably too shallow to support fish life. To survive, trout need water deep enough to not freeze solid during the dead of winter. So does another alpine lake dweller, namely the yellow legged frog, whose tadpoles need two years to metamorphose into frogs. The problem is, tadpoles are a favorite food of high sierra trout.
In 1995 the US Forest service hired scientist Roland Knapp to survey Sierra Nevada lakes and their inhabitants. In one wilderness basin, 5 of 8 lakes had fish removed by gillnets. The frogs made a dramatic comeback. The bottom line- trout eat tadpoles. One surveyed lake that had about 20 frogs before fish were removed was teaming with over two thousand frogs a few years later.
Even more startling was another discovery- that aerial stocking was doing more harm than good to the trout. Knapp found that over 70 percent of lakes that had been repeatedly stocked actually held self-sustaining populations. The CADFG was diluting the wild gene pool, introducing fish that were less adept at survival and reproduction. The good intentions of the CADFG were counterproductive, creating lakes full of ravenous, stunted, and inferior trout."
Perhaps the solution is to leave the lakes that can achieve viable self-sustaining populations of trout for trout, and lakes that cannot for the frogs.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 16, 2018 - 07:58am PT
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BG- Perhaps the solution is to leave the lakes that can achieve viable self-sustaining populations of trout for trout, and lakes that cannot for the frogs.
The problem is, the trout and the frogs need the same kind of lake. We have to make choices. I say choose some for the frogs. Where we do choose to have trout, I say improve the fisheries. More goldens, fewer brooks.
Lakes with lots of food and marginal reproduction seem to produce good brooks. Fewer trout, same food. Lakes with lots of reproduction of brooks seem to lead to the stunted brook situation. (Lots of fish, same amount of food.) So Ruppel, you are right, I shouldn't have said that they breed themselves small. They do pull out these five inchers and find they are four and five years old. A lake like that- five year old five inchers, should be managed one way or the other. Frogs or real fish.
Just around here, I'm thinking like Bull Lake, or Grass lake, or lower lamark. Get some real fish in there, (maybe not grass lake.) If the Frogs come back to the upper treasure lakes, that would be cool.
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