Bolting on stance - ground up - leading

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Messages 161 - 180 of total 205 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Mar 31, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Salmanizer... I would, for the sake of conversation, say that as the style of on site ground up face climbing faded, that it left plenty of rock still within shouting distance. And, as Warbler says, with a little hiking...I was, and am, so happy to be finding like minded climbers out there willing to share the rope and the style. It reminds me of when I used to surf uncrowded waves where I grew up....I just recently climbed Parkline Slabs for the first time. Just me, my new found partner in arms, and the Golden Eagles overhead. A perfect, uncrowded wave...
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Mar 31, 2013 - 03:39pm PT
No - I agree, it's just that it's not so obvious and you usually do have to walk a fair distance. Nothing staring you right in the face sorta thing.

The learning curve may be just a bit steeper to approach but no doubt, for any of you young bucks who are thinking they might want to play the game and garnish its full value. Theres still plenty of rock out there. I've been putting up routes ground up, hand drilling at free stances for almost 10 years now and I've still got so many new routes I want to take a stab at it makes my head spin, and I'm mostly just climbing in the Tahoe area.

The Crusade 5.10c
The Crusade 5.10c
Credit: Salamanizer

Valkyrie 5.9, 4 pitches.
Valkyrie 5.9, 4 pitches.
Credit: Salamanizer

Sun Tzu 5.10c/d, 3 pitches.
Sun Tzu 5.10c/d, 3 pitches.
Credit: Salamanizer

Evolution 5.10c
Evolution 5.10c
Credit: Salamanizer


Scott Thelen

Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
Mar 31, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
sure looks like Bear Res.
Tfish

Trad climber
La Crescenta, CA
Apr 1, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
I've bolted on lead and rap bolted. I really regret being a pussy and rap bolting.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Apr 1, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
Chad, where is that last one? That rock looks gnarly.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 1, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
Ho man.

Don't bring this up. I still have bad dreams.
JohnnyG

climber
Apr 1, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
This photo deserves a spot on this thread. I poached the photo from mtn proj.

Sounds like Kelly Bell was the real deal. See link.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/106252871

Kelly Bell Drilling The Stand on the Bovine Wall...Rick Percival
Kelly Bell Drilling The Stand on the Bovine Wall...Rick Percival
Credit: JohnnyG
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 1, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
If ground-up bolting tradsters looked like her, I'd be in.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Apr 2, 2013 - 01:31am PT
Ground up free FAs are very rewarding, but that style just doesn't work when it comes to very difficult overhanging limestone/pocket routes. People realized that to break into climbs like overhanging 5.14s you just aren't going to ground up, free climb the FA.

I'm proud of the ground up free FAs I've done for the style of the FA, but the routes I've done with aid are just better routes and what I'm proud of for those routes is the vision, the problem solving to get the bolts in, the eventual redpoint, and hopefully leaving a quality route that others will enjoy. It's a different game and there are many games in climbing to enjoy and/or challenge yourself with. You may prefer one aspect of climbing (e.g. free, aid, slab, offwidth) or doing an FA (e.g. ground up free granite/crack 5.12 or rap/hooking an overhanging limestone/pocketed 5.14), but that doesn't make it universally better than another style.

Watch this video of Sharma from about 2:30 to the end and tell me he didn't have a great experience putting this climb in on aid.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:24am PT
Fet! Thank you for that vid!!!
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:43am PT
What is interesting to me is that the new generation of climbers, who are almost exclusively learning to climb in gyms and then venturing outside, don't really care how the bolts got there. The overwhelming majority of this next generation of climbers will never put up a first ascent. They are just looking to have a good day outside at the crags doing some routes.

BITD, I think more climbers aspired to doing first ascents. They understood that, as Warbler pointed out in this thread, heading up a blank slab into virgin territory with just a hammer and drill is a very legitimate form of climbing experience even if only the FA party gets to experience it.

Hopefully, there is enough virgin rock that hasn't been rap-bolted into submission that some climbers can experience that oh-so-special ground up first ascent.

Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:52am PT
^^^^^
And that is the reason why this long standing issue still holds precedence in the climbing world today.

How many "Developers" and how much time do you think it would take to virtually eliminate or severely scarcify (is that a word??? sounds good;) the opportunity for youth to have the opportunity to forge their own expressions on the stone?

Developing (not putting up a route or two) is as often as not, no service to the community.
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
Developing, with an aesthetic and thoughtfully considered vision, in a manner consistent with local and regional values, is a community service. Bolting squeeze jobs, with the goal of maximizing the number of routes in a given space, certainly is not.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
Id just like to say that for some routes, albeit no bolting, still maintain MUCH of the flavor of the FA..Yu know,, those slabs with like sixty feet twixt da bolts! :-)
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Apr 2, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
I have a very special place in my heart for many of my GU FA's but a few of the harder TD climbs I did last summer are just as special. All the thought that went into them and the attention to detail to get the climb just right feels like creating a masterpiece to me. I did this sport climb (Mad Woman 11a) top down. Its 30m and it took me 5 days of solo TR to finally feel that everything was perfect enough to fire in the last 3 bolts and redpoint. I feel that it is one of the best climbs I have ever put up despite the fact that I rap bolted it. My French friend Slyvain does not speak much english but he onsite flashed it and called it 7a I think it is a bit easier than that maybe 11a?
Sylvain Barriere on  Mad Woman 10c
Sylvain Barriere on Mad Woman 10c
Credit: tradmanclimbs

This climb Mad Man10d/11a?
Isa on the 2nd ascent of Mad Man 5.11a
Isa on the 2nd ascent of Mad Man 5.11a
Credit: tradmanclimbs
is just climbers left of Mad Woman. It is a mix of bolts and gear. It had some cracks and the line was obvious so I talked Ed into belaying me for a GU ascent. This was not an easy sell as ED feels pretty strongly that top down results in a better route. Anyways I told him it would be quick and easy and only take about an hour;) The lead ended up takeing about 3 hours with all the cleaning and pondering. I blew a beak and took a pretty decent ride giveing Ed a few thrills:) Ed declared me a Mad Man hence the name of the climb. We bounced arround a bit trying to free it but neither of us quite got it. We came back the next weekend and I replaced a bad pin with a bolt on lead and then got the redpoint.Two climbing sessions for the GU pitch. 5 or 6 for the TD pitch. Both are stellar climbs. Mad Man is special to me because I did it GU but Mad Woman is a masterpiece INMOP because of all the work I put into it, all the time I spent contemplating before committing to the drill. I think Mad Woman is a bit more special. A year ago I Never would have been able to say that I felt more for a TD climb than a GU climb.....
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Apr 2, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
Developing, with an aesthetic and thoughtfully considered vision, in a manner consistent with local and regional values, is a community service. Bolting squeeze jobs, with the goal of maximizing the number of routes in a given space, certainly is not.

So true, which is why I stated "as often as not".
I can certainly see the value in both and it is ture as Tradman nicely points out how a well reasearched and carefuly thought out TD route can be as good or even better than if done GU.

I think we're all kinda argueing more or less around the same point as everyone here posting seems to have a well rounded and level head. However, it's the potential for abuse by those without thoughtful vision, concideration of local values and an "agenda" based on quantity and self importance when developing that puts the rap bolting issue into the foreground. Ground Up certainly holds less potential for abuse.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Apr 3, 2013 - 01:47am PT
This thread is way too reasonable!


How do we get more folks to see that excessive td gridding is not a service to the community?

This thread needs more pics too. 👌

💃💃💃💃💃💃
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Apr 3, 2013 - 10:53am PT
This thread needs chiseling. lol
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 3, 2013 - 11:51am PT
Hanging on the Tiny Hook and hammering like mad. <br/>
 <br/>
The Gold standar...
Hanging on the Tiny Hook and hammering like mad.

The Gold standard 5.12+
Voyager
Credit: guyman

This is a climb at Courtwright Reservour, The Gold Standard 5.12+.

Kris, Jan and I did it back in the mid 90's ....

We didn't even consider rap bolting it because it wasn't our style. And the top is way way upthere.

After trying to hook it with normal hooks and failing, Kris came up with the idea of the "thin hook" its not really a hook but rather a squaire edge. If you found the right "dime" edge and you put your weight on it sowley it would hold!

We took many sliders before we got the bolts in and we had a climb that was a huge challenge for all of us - an adventure for sure.

I don't know if it has ever had a second ascent.


I do get upset when I show up at a local climbing place (im thinking texas canyon) and find a brand new 5.10 located right between my favorate two 5.10s that were very close together to begin with, now there are 3 climbs, with the same characteristics within 30 feet.

A public service was performed by shelfless climbers who promptly REMOVED the offending climb.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 3, 2013 - 01:57pm PT

A public service was performed by shelfless climbers who promptly REMOVED the offending climb.

So a public service is removing something that offends you personally?

Sweet! I'll blow up the local church.
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