Hydrofracking - are we nuts? (OT)

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golsen

Social climber
kennewick, wa
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 18, 2011 - 05:01pm PT
Frack!

I don't know enough about hydrofracturing to get oil out of the ground to determine whether it is alright or not. But injecting chemicals into the ground to aid it? That is nuts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/science/earth/17gas.html

WASHINGTON Oil and gas companies injected hundreds of millions of gallons of hazardous or carcinogenic chemicals into wells in more than 13 states from 2005 to 2009, according to an investigation by Congressional Democrats.


Companies injected large amounts of other hazardous chemicals, including 11.4 million gallons of fluids containing at least one of the toxic or carcinogenic B.T.E.X. chemicals benzene, toluene, xylene and ethylbenzene. The companies used the highest volume of fluids containing one or more carcinogens in Colorado, Oklahoma and Texas.

Millions of dollars have been spent remediating older leaking underground storage tanks used at gasoline stations. the primary contaminants were BTEX.

[url="http://www.egr.msu.edu/tosc/akron/factsheets/fs_btexpdf.pdf"]

http://www.egr.msu.edu/tosc/akron/factsheets/fs_btexpdf.pdf[/url]

hb81

climber
Apr 18, 2011 - 07:30pm PT
Find the movie / documentary "Gasland" which covers this subject.
Yes, it is nuts. It's nuts beyond belief actually.

trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZe1AeH0Qz8

Nohea

Trad climber
Sunny Aiea,Hi
Apr 18, 2011 - 07:52pm PT
http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/

Yea that is nuts, the doc used to be on HBO. In it a guy turns on his water faucet and lights it, and the flame stays.

I showed my seniors some of the resources on the website.

Studly

Trad climber
WA
Apr 18, 2011 - 09:31pm PT
The George W. Bush legacy.
Auto-X Fil

Mountain climber
Apr 18, 2011 - 10:25pm PT
I live in PA, right in the center of a shale formation being fracked right now. There are two sides to every story.

Gasland is utter sensationalist bullsh#t. I can't even start a conversation with it because every single facet is twisted to be inflammatory.

People are in an uproar becuase they are injecting diesel fuel in places with the frack water. Where do you think the diesel came from?! The fact that the aquifer is 100 feet down and the gas is 5,000 feet down seems to go over the heads of many folks.

I've seen wells lit on fire around here for decades before the gas companies showed up. The natural gas is, well, natural. It's been in the water here for as long as people have been drilling water wells.

There are some companies doing a lousy job. Cabot Oil and Gas seems to have an environmental policy along the lines of "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission".

Forunately, they seem to be in the minority. Overall it seems to be a fairly low-impact means of feeding our fossil fuel habit. I think the debate on the sources of and issues with that habit belong elsewhere. But accepting that it's going to come from somewhere, even with all this occurring in my back yard, I'm not crying NIMBY.
Nohea

Trad climber
Sunny Aiea,Hi
Apr 19, 2011 - 12:57am PT
Thanks Base, I had to copy/paste to read tomorrow but when I did show my seniors this, I said as I always do "this is one side of the story, what is the other?" SO Thanks, I got some reading to do!

Aloha,
will
stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Apr 19, 2011 - 01:33am PT
Nice work, Base.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Apr 19, 2011 - 07:31am PT
Base-thanks,
I always appreciate your perspective on things.

Actually I DID read all you wrote, and well... a lot went right by me but I did get the jist of it-thanks again, interesting stuff...

Cheers,
DD
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
How do you like my new weather gear?
Apr 19, 2011 - 07:41am PT
That's gold, Base, GOLD!

DMT
Hankster

Social climber
BASE!
Apr 19, 2011 - 09:45am PT
BASE FOR YOUR FACE!!!!!! Thank you very much.

BASE637
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Apr 19, 2011 - 10:25am PT
OP - Yeah, its never a good idea.

No matter how the PR campaigns paint it, if you take a look at what they have done around the country already, you will come to the conclusion that fracking is not good for any human being, or animal.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
How do you like my new weather gear?
Apr 19, 2011 - 11:07am PT
You gotta admit... hydrofracking is cool nomenclature.

DMT
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Apr 19, 2011 - 11:10am PT
What happens what the casing/plugs corrode away? Maybe not within our lifetime, but doesn't that allow the deep water/chemicals to well up and mix with ground water?
locker

Social climber
Apr 19, 2011 - 11:19am PT


Pretty SURE that history PROVES that MANY things we THINK (or are TOLD) are safe...

Turn out to be NOT SO SAFE...

"the jury is STILL out" on this one, in MY book...
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Apr 19, 2011 - 12:32pm PT
It's great to know that Big Oil is so concerned with our safety and health, just as Big Tabacco was certain that smoking doesn't cause Cancer. . .
locker

Social climber
Apr 19, 2011 - 12:36pm PT


BINGO!!!...

John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Apr 19, 2011 - 01:38pm PT
Hi Base.. thanks for that explanation of drilling and fracking. That was cool. Can you help me understand something. The NY times article says they use chemicals in the process of fracking, including things like benzene, but you seem to say that they only use fresh water.

Maybe I misread this, but would you address the use of chemicals? It does appear to me that you are saying that ground water is being protected by all of these steps you explain, the cementing and such.. But could you expand on the use of chemicals? And what that article is saying.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 19, 2011 - 01:52pm PT
GasFrac - don't use BTEX/water mix...
Mark Not-circlehead

climber
Martinez, CA
Apr 19, 2011 - 02:04pm PT
Now, I didn;t read all the psts (and all the responses in the lonoonnnggg posts), but I have this comment;


Most of the chemical everyone os afraid of getting into groundwater, were already in the ground (as crude) to begin with......The only connection to groundwater would be through the wellbore.

Am I off base?
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Apr 19, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
We have a big energy problem on this planet. Nuclear looked good until the Japan incident, much of the world's oil has a big political issue, and wind&solar can't fill the gap. We should conserve and use less but this won't fix the problem.
Shale gas and shale oil will go a long way on this continent to helping us manage for longer. Shale gas in particular is abundant in some areas and should play a much bigger role in the future as it is probably less damaging than the alternatives. In fact we should stop using coal for electricity generation and use more gas.
Disclosure: I work in oil and gas exploration
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