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El Bucanero
climber
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Mar 15, 2011 - 07:17am PT
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The last pitch I led, I was playing around with this technique, and found some difficulties. When rappelling, I generally like to have some sort of a backup. In the past, a prussic knot did the trick, but lately I have been using a Petzl Shunt. THis works well with a conventional rap setup, using an ATC, for example, as there is one hand for the brake and the other can manage the backup device. However, with a Grigri, this seems not so easy. I was using one hand to manage the rope below me, and the other to control the descent with the Grigri lever. No third hand available for a backup. On very steep, scary rappels, a backup would be nice, even if just for the psychological effect.
A good way to get past the lack of 3rd hand problem when using gri gri and shunt:
Looking at the shunt, near the carabiner hole there is another samller hole. (ever wondered what it's for?) This hole is for attaching a short piece of cord to. Pulling on this cord allows you to pull the shunt down the rope (instead of having to squeeze the shunt).
So when using a grigri + shunt, one hand to control grigri lever, 2nd hand to control rope AND pull on shunt cord. very easy.
This is how alot of industrial rope access people work. (Except the shunt is on a seperate rope).
Resist the temptation to tie a knot on the end of the shunt cord. It makes it easier to use (esp with gloves), but it makes it more dangerous, ie if you grip it and can't let go, the shunt won't clamp...
Edit: Just realised wallyvirginia answered the same question above. My bad.
BTW wallyvirginia what do you think about the knot on the end of the cord?
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wallyvirginia
Big Wall climber
Stockholm, Sweden
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Mar 15, 2011 - 08:37am PT
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"BTW wallyvirginia what do you think about the knot on the end of the cord?"
You're right. I don't like a knot on the free end of the little pull cord either. It's easier but could go wrong, as you say.
That's just a picture I found on google-images..
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
bay area, ca
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Mar 15, 2011 - 11:09am PT
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Does the cinch have similar issues with heating the sheath of the rope that the grigri does?
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Adamame
climber
Santa Cruz
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Mar 15, 2011 - 11:57am PT
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I have been using the Gri Gri 2 intensively for the last three weeks or so since I purchased it. So far the new Gri Gri has proven to be much better all around then the original. I feel that it gives me more control in rappelling situations with both thin and thick ropes. I haven't rapped on a wet rope yet, so my view could change.
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Mar 15, 2011 - 12:00pm PT
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I rapped with a haul bag in the rain down the east ledges. Would rather of had a atc or even a stitch plate. Very jumpy with a gri gri.
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drunkenmaster
Social climber
santa rosa
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Mar 15, 2011 - 02:40pm PT
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gri gri sucks for anything but top rope or hangdog lead belaying i think. but for that i love it!
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Steve L
Gym climber
SUR
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Mar 15, 2011 - 03:01pm PT
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J-tree, I don't know how much heat needs to be generated before any damage is done to the sheath, but the cinch gets hot on raps too. About the same as a grigri, as far as I've noticed.
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Tez
Mountain climber
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Mar 15, 2011 - 03:04pm PT
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The Grigri does get hot when rapping. I used to worry about this until I did Zodiac a few years ago. At the time, the Huber's were working on freeing that route. They had 600' of rope from the top leading down to an anchor with one intermediate tie in. Their camera man came zipping down this line on a Grigri with a large camera. He was a large guy, so with his gear, he was rapping with about 250 pounds. He stopped at the intermediate anchor only long enough to move the Grigri to the lower part of the rope (carefully with gloves) and then resumed his decent on down. He did over 500’ of rapping in less than 5 minutes.
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Steve L
Gym climber
SUR
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Mar 15, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
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Yup, the heat was a wee bit concerning at first, but I figured if there was any likelihood of danger, I would have heard of someone plummeting to their death off of a melted rope by now.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 15, 2011 - 03:24pm PT
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an old timer like you should have a few ovals laying around for a good ol biner brake. That way you can have a rap system you know and like and also have your back up prussic.
I still use that system, particularly if no one else is looking (i.e. when I'm soloing). The Silent Partner is so good for a lead belay, however, that I was compelled to make that concession to modernism.
John
P.S.
Mike,
I'm trying to get back into aid shape during the next few months. Your talk about the Dihedral keeps me going.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Mar 15, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
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Roped solo climbing...
been doing a bit lately.
-Silent partner for belay
-ATC to rap*
-Lefty jug and a GriGri to ascend*
ATC: I will rap with the GriGri if I am not just really climbing but more cleaning. Only because of the easy lock off'ability (not having to rap a tail around my leg).
Maybe I am jus' getting old but I find it harder to rap smoothly on a GriGri and feel (for some unsubstantiated reason?) that I could more easily do something stupid with the Gri lever system than I could with tails out of an ATC.
Lefty jug:
I only say 'Lefty' as a preference for plumb jugging. I carry both and if the pitch leans right a lot I will use the right handed jug when appropriate.
I DO NOT like using a GriGri as a belay device
~~~~~~~~~~
Off topic from belay/rap devices...
I have been finding a short 7mm prussik and bungee cord with the cheap plastic snap ends, very handy for constant upward anchor load from first piece. I don't see any sense in cloving your first piece. That just reduces the dynamics of the rope and essentially restarts the belay chain from the first piece.
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Ferretlegger
Trad climber
san Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2011 - 05:38pm PT
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There are some very good suggestions here. Thanks to everyone. Please keep the ideas coming. I am starting to believe that using an ATC ( the newer Guide version) with an autoblock and a Petzl Shunt with the little tail might be the best and safest way to go. I will probably be on a single 10.5 static line (Bluewater). I have been using a Grigri to belay myself. I have noticed that several of you seem to be big fans of other self belay devices. There seem to be three: The Silent Partner, the Solo-Aid, and the Soloist.
If it is not already beaten to death on another thread, I would very much appreciate hearing opinions on these devices (and the Grigri) as belay devices when solo aid climbing.
Mark,
Susan just had her last chemotherapy on Friday, and has her final CT scan tomorrow. I am pretty sure she will be clear, and now just has to regain her health and strength over the next few months. So we will be free to travel. I am really hoping I can see you in the Valley. Perhaps I can help drag some crap to the base. I will write soon- thanks for the note!
John,
Glad to hear that you are still thinking about a big, bigwall. I have been looking pretty hard at the Muir. The upper part looks gorgeous. If you want to do a Grade V to warm up, let me know. I have ALL the gear (and then some). Good to hear from you!
All the best,
Michael
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 15, 2011 - 05:42pm PT
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I've use a petzl "Stop" for 30 years when rappelling for speed and heavy loads.
ATC is too way homo for me.
With 2 ropes I use figure 8
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Mar 15, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
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just a reminder from another thread that using a steel carabiner for grigri attachement while soloing was a recommendation
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Mar 15, 2011 - 07:24pm PT
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Werner...
I think 'Figure-8' must be a mantra of yours?
How long you held that same piece of hardware now? 25, 30 years?
Now that's getting a value ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~
Rapping is like masturbation:
It does not take much skill
There's many ways to do it and not one is the 'right' way.
The right way is 'If it feels good, do it"
Unlike rappelling when masturbating a good rule is:
"If it feels good, do it. If it feels real good, do it a lot"!
~~~~~~~~~~~
Sorry Werner's 'Homo' comment got me all flushed and glistening LOL!
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Ottawa Doug
Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
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Mar 15, 2011 - 09:42pm PT
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I keep checking in to see what Werner has said, good humour.
Doug : )
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t-bone
climber
Bishop
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Feb 27, 2014 - 05:39pm PT
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Before reading this I thought I was the only one who hates rapping (static lines) with a grigri.
I've found the older grigris are less jerky, but I still get a larger than necessary pucker factor when descending.
The Petzl Stop looks effective but kind of a bulky beast to carry on the harness.
Any better options out there that are small and light? I'm leading with a Silent Partner so some device for rappelling only is ok.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Feb 27, 2014 - 06:44pm PT
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I've bailed many a route with a grigri with haul bags in tow and haven't had an issue with burning my rope sheath, but that's just my own experience so the sample size is a bit too small to make anything of it.
I'm not sure why you would need a backup if you're soloing since the end of the rope is tied to the anchor below you, you're not going to rap off the end of the rope. If you're really concerned with the assisted auto lock feature failing, there's no reason you can't use a loose prussic attached to your leg loop (or belay loop if you're extending the rap device) to manage with your free hand while your other hand manages the handle.
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AlanDoak
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Feb 27, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
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I always thought that the point of a prussik backup was in case you swung and spazzed out letting go of the brake hand, or something along those lines. The assisted arrest function of the gri-gri serves that function, so why back it up? I know that a gri-gri doesn't always catch right away, especially under low/slow loads, but it seems like overkill and a lot of hassle to add more devices to the system. And, the line is fixed at the bottom so you're not going rap off the end. If I'm letting go to clean a stubborn piece, I might wrap the rope around my leg a couple times for extra measure.
I too use a gri-gri to self belay when leading blocks with short fixing, tying backup knots and clipping into them with a locker. The backup knots help prevent the slack that you feed yourself pulling back into the device, will jam into the device if it doesn't catch, and will catch you if the gri-gri/biner gets crossloaded and explodes (probably unlikely). I'm sure the Silent Partner is awesome, but a gri-gri is fine and is what I have.
Never thought of rapping with a pig on a gri-gri. I suppose it feels more right to use an ATC (or equivalent), with 2 biners instead of 1 to add more friction.
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whitemeat
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Feb 27, 2014 - 07:35pm PT
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this thing will not require any hands to work like a prusik so it could back up a gri gri with 2 hands occupied...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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