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WoodyS
Trad climber
Riverside
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Jan 15, 2006 - 09:38pm PT
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There's no excuse for a second to be in danger on Sidewinder. Both times I've led it, I put in a point and a long sling where you go to the top. I clip a second sling from the first sling to my waist. When I get to the top, I pull the first up with the second sling and unclip leaving the first sling and pro in. I then walk over a ways, set up the belay in a manner that allows me to walk along above the second as he makes the traverse. The second has an upper all the way.
I guess some of you kids need an old timer around to show you how to do it right.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jan 15, 2006 - 10:04pm PT
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Nice photojournalism, knotty! Breathtaking, hysterical and terrifying at the same time.
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Karen
Trad climber
Good question?
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Jan 16, 2006 - 12:26am PT
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locker-no Woody is referring to Sidewinder-remember the day he lead me up it? I'm sure you heard me clear over where you and Tan were climbing!!!
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10b4me
Trad climber
On that V2 problem at the Happies
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Jan 16, 2006 - 12:48am PT
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hmm!! isn't this the second accident involving the *SCMA in a little over two months Jeff?
I've lead and followed TJ many times. have always used the horizontal to place an anchor. people, the crack is right in front of you.
the leader obviously had pro with him during the climb, so it's not like he couldn't have built an anchor. unless he ran out.
*formerly known as the Rock Climbing Section of the Sierra Club
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jan 16, 2006 - 12:50am PT
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Nobody has to get the go from me? I was not even aware they were doing the route.
But if I did happen to walk by and see a dangerous setup I would have said something.
I do not even know what happened in this accident.
The Swift accident was written up in our newsletter cliff notes.
Batten
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jan 16, 2006 - 01:03am PT
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The SCMA climber that fell on the swift was very experienced.
It was an accident that anyone of us could have had.
The climber fell, and his first peace pulled out.
Landed hard.
Really no climber error, statistics.
I do not know about Toe Jam.
Batten
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 16, 2006 - 01:06am PT
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Leading Sidewinder is scarey. I always wondered what would happen if you whipped. I just hate traverses that threaten to throw you over backwards. I was at the wobbliest section once, the wind was ripping, and then a jet suddenly buzzed Steve's canyon so close it felt like it would blow me off the rock.
I refrain from placing a piece at the end of the the traverse for the sake of the second, but don't like the idea of making the fall totally swingless for the second. Where would the fun be in that? Just a little swing is good.
Peace
Karl
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Mike Dahlquist
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jan 16, 2006 - 01:18am PT
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Better even than the Toe Jam Death Belay is the Toe Jam Top Rope® from the bolts. In this daring maneuver, the second throws a rope back down after cleaning ALL the gear to noobs back at the base of the climb. When I saw this in action, I politely told the three noobs waiting their turn that this set up was probably not safe and asked if they had any idea what would happen if they fell. None of them had ever climbed outdoors before and thought they were OK on top rope. Two sketched off when they couldn't pull the first crack move, and after the third barely made it up, shaking the whole way, I was serenaded by the "experienced" climbers up top at the bolts to jeers of "stop scaring people, you're an idiot" and "those climbers down there don't know anything." Wonder if these guys are still alive...
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ThomasKeefer
Trad climber
Monterey, CA
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Jan 16, 2006 - 02:10am PT
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There is another alternative to the death belay which is a compromise... albeit a less desireable one that just buidling and anchor at the top of the route... a few times when most of the placements were taken from parties climbing dandelion or other routes from that side, you can tie off both of those bolts and run the rope through a deep water chute about 2 feet to the climbers left of the top out of Toe Jam. Then you need to sit down with your butt inside the chute and the rope tight inside the chute as well. This works really well and is PRETTY SAFE (+)(tm).
Have fun..
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jan 16, 2006 - 09:35am PT
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Geez! There's a huge mushroom just above the horizontal. If all the placements are taken, (unlikely) just tie it off.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 16, 2006 - 10:03am PT
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The woman that was hurt is in her 60's and is the nicest person. She was guided up the Tangerine Trip last fall in 6 days. Probally the oldest woman to ever get up El Cap.
Please Pray for her.
It seems as though she drove herself home from the hospital, Juan.
The person that was leading when she fell is very upset about it. He has 20+ years leading gear routes, has helped put up hard backcountry routes, etc. Just shows that none of us are immune to brainfarts. He's a very good climber, I wouldn't hesitate to second him.
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wildone
climber
right near the beach, boyeee (lord have mercy)
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Jan 16, 2006 - 12:34pm PT
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HAAA! Juan, I humped gear for that run up TT, in exchange for a whole mess of nuts. (and not the kind you eat, or the kind you get other people to eat either)
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hobo
Trad climber
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Jan 16, 2006 - 12:51pm PT
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Ben, did Scott guide her?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jan 16, 2006 - 01:05pm PT
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Gary,
Her car was left at Intersection Rock?
Everyone said it was an Ambulance Ride?
Juan
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jan 16, 2006 - 01:35pm PT
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Hardman,
Can I use that photo for a webpage I am building.
Stupid things climbers do.
Juanito
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jan 16, 2006 - 01:59pm PT
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Devil's advocate moment...
If someone was solid would you think that they were irresponsible for soloing Toe Jam? What about if someone is solid enough to solo it, but is cleaning their freind's lead? When I'm the leader w/ the solid enough to solo follower whose many, many grades below their limit on the follow, they often get (and prefer to get, in the name of climbing more) the "don't fall" pro for traverses.
As a bit of an aside, I fell once when following the low angle traverse to the anchor on another climb and my belly stuck to the rock right were I fell. I didn't even swing.
Still...
I too have seen the scariest TR's ever in Joshua Tree.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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Jan 16, 2006 - 02:02pm PT
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Does that count as a fall, or were you just smearing creatively?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jan 16, 2006 - 02:05pm PT
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Hmm. In response to Melissa's question, where the follower is solid enough to solo, and is cleaning for a less skilled leader, I would certainly expect that leader to still lead with the second climber in mind. ie, a directional. But, I suppose that scenario of leaving a runout for the follower is possible (since you do it.)
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TimM
Trad climber
Indian Wells, CA
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Jan 16, 2006 - 02:06pm PT
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Melissa said:
"I fell once when following the low angle traverse to the anchor on another climb and my belly stuck to the rock right were I fell."
You must have some belly :-)
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Straight Outta J-Tree
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2006 - 02:35pm PT
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Juanito wrote:
Hardman,
Can I use that photo for a webpage I am building.
Sure. Just put the following below the pic:
© 2005 Hardman Knott
You might also want to link to this thread...
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