Discussion Topic |
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| Messages 1 - 42 of total 42 in this topic |
WBraun
climber
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Feb 21, 2011 - 05:33pm PT
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If they shut down Yosemite and you sneak in and get caught climbing you'll get arrested.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Feb 21, 2011 - 05:37pm PT
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It might be worth it Werner...I have a card from Lober and he said(with a grin) to call "if I needed anything" from him. But then again maybe I should save the card for something more important! Can't I just use your name?
Peace
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Feb 21, 2011 - 05:45pm PT
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Werner - You only get arrested if your caught climbing? That doesn't seem fair...
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 21, 2011 - 05:49pm PT
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No that applies to everyone including me.
This happened before when they closed the park. We could not do anything.
We just went to the mall in Fresno instead and stared at junk .....
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2011 - 05:50pm PT
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Public Land, right? Time for some Egypt style protests if they pull this crap on us.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Feb 21, 2011 - 05:51pm PT
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Maybe Republicans will get their wish. Shut down all Government functions. For Yosemite, just put a lock on the gate, and save money. If you can't afford to buy Yosemite, why should you be allowed to use it??
This just in from Dr F (BTW, an F is much worse than a D or a C). All of the valley floor wildlife will be voting republican next election. That is, as long as the democrats can expand the voting rolls to allow fish, deer, etc etc the vote.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Feb 21, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
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It was Acorn that bused in the deer and fish and paid them off to vote for the Dems.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Feb 21, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
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It's federal land.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2011 - 05:57pm PT
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Federal = of the people, by the people? Do we not fund the federal gov? Do we not vote them in? Were the National parks not set aside for the enjoyment of all?
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damo62
Social climber
Brisbane
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Feb 21, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
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Ha Ha Werner, that link also indicates law enforcement to be shut down. So o who will do the arresting.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 21, 2011 - 06:09pm PT
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So who will do the arresting?
I heard Fattrad will be volunteering .....
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M. Volland
Trad climber
Grand Canyon
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Feb 21, 2011 - 06:19pm PT
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Parkline Slab and the USGS Wall are expecting record crowds for the shutdown! Best to sleep at the base and be the first in line.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Feb 21, 2011 - 06:30pm PT
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Ha Ha Werner, that link also indicates law enforcement to be shut down. So o who will do the arresting
HAHA Good call.
Did the parks get shut down during the Clinton Gov closure????
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BooDawg
Social climber
Polynesian Paradise
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Feb 21, 2011 - 06:33pm PT
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Seems like the republicants should take a lesson from the last time they shutdown the government: People flocked to the Dems in record numbers and the republicants wore egg on their faces for at least a few weeks until the collective memory faded...
Still, it'd be a bummer!
Yes, the National Parks were shut down before: I was guiding a group on Maui and on Hawaii Island, and we couldn't visit Haleakala or Volcanoes National Parks; it was a BIG BUMMER for folks who'd come so far...
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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Feb 21, 2011 - 06:44pm PT
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just imagine what's gonna happen when bear #46 wakes up and hears about this.
maybe he will hitch a ride with werner to fresno- to look at stuff!!!
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 21, 2011 - 06:52pm PT
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LEO's will continue to work
Yes, a skeletal crew ....
Just see Fattrad knows and MTucker just gave himself away .....
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Northern California
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Feb 21, 2011 - 07:47pm PT
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A friend of mine was on Skull Queen during the shutdown in 1996. He had no idea the shutdown was gonna happen. When they got down to the ground ~everyone~ was gone. They didn't know if there had been a war started, a big disaster or what. They found someone eventually who explained what was going on and they just left.
In theory, if you were high enough off the ground before the shutdown...
(Some other folks I know who went to J-Tree that spring break were met by a ranger holding a shotgun who explained that they had better turn the f*** around... So whoever that ranger was, he'll arrest you if you try a day trip to the Cookie.)
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CF
climber
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Feb 21, 2011 - 07:54pm PT
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During the last shut all us DNC employees were out of work. There were still lots of "essential" nps employees on and it seemed like the park could easily have stayed open.
Now the BIG RUB was that all the NPs workers who did not work during the shutdown got back pay!
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Feb 21, 2011 - 08:07pm PT
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Rumor has it when the 2012 election, Republican Party plans to create a military coup and riots will be forthcoming from their botched rigged election results. The New Political Correct FEMA will plan to use the valley for re-education and as a non-location camp for the trouble makers or resistance parties in question. Unions, Teachers, pot-smokers, married-unmarried gays, the usual suspects.
The Mountain Warfare Training Center near Bridgeport is and has been starting to stockpile portable shelters, food, water to hold them in case situation develops, The two main roads to the west: starting at the Wawona tunnel at Inspiration Point and the intersection at 140/120 will be heavily guarded and armed with MARPs [mine-resistant, ambush-protected] vehicles to keep people from escaping and plan to shoot on site anyone getting out of the valley. Depending how much rain or water is in the Merced, if it is high and running fast they will let anyone swimming go, but if river is low will shoot.
Any available climbers living in the valley will be sworn in as temporary officers are to be armed as well but with blanks and stationed on strategic trails for people trying to escape to the high country: The Mist up to Columbia Point, Glacier, Vernal, Nevada, Mirror, original Big Oak Flat road and any additional trails, LEO officers will be stationed at each trail as well so bribes are not offered to Gov.climbers for resistance offenders to pass. Drug cartels especially.
Military Snipers with night scopes will be stationed throughout the valley as well. Dogs will be deployed. Communications will be cut off. Anyone caught or with the following: laptops, cellphones will have them confiscated. Smuggling of these from sources outside the zone will be considered as treason and punishable to the law of the day, no lawyers, anyone caught with one will be put in small hot box and will be subjected 24/7 with bright lights constantly on and listening/watching to old Lawrence Welk music.
Beerboarding will be common for those that disagree.
Bell-Boing V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft will be used to bring in the masses, landing zone will be the meadow in front of El Cap. A single MQ-1 Predator will be deployed so any suspicious action before will be used to analyze a situation within a couple of minutes and action dealt with.
A group of five people talking together will be broken up with warnings to disperse with live ammo fired in their direction towards the dirt but not to hit them. If a ricochet from said bullet hits and kills or injures someone inline of projectile, officer or soldier will not be held accountable and will considered as an accident and will not be sued.
Listening devices will be deployed in each shelter, in the trees and along the trails to hear of any action to create any resistance.
Rations of one beer a day, one cigarette, 5 sheets of toilet paper will be rationed on a daily basis as well as WWII government rations. If you lucky maybe the newer MRI.
The Ahwahnee Hotel will be New–Military Rightwing headquarters, Fatty can finally bring in his buddy Cheney [if he is still alive by 2012] rumor is that when he does go they plan to keep his brain intact and alive with special equipment so he can run the operation.
So I say no the Valley will not be closed.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Feb 21, 2011 - 08:47pm PT
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When they closed the park in 1990 for the fires we could still climb. they just wouldn't let us buy or sell alcohol.
edit: of course, they kicked out the tourists and kept the employees sealed in the potential inferno. it was one way to get try and get rid of the curry lifers :)
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Captain...or Skully
climber
The Seas of Stone.
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Feb 21, 2011 - 09:41pm PT
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In some ways, The Valley is the weirdest place ever.
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Strider
Trad climber
ಠ_ಠ
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Feb 21, 2011 - 10:30pm PT
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Given that I live 7 miles from the entrance and my job is dependent on tourism to Yosemite, I am curious about this.
Werner, Ekat and anyone else who was there in 1996, would you mind telling me a little more about what it was like?
 Could people living and working in Yose go in and out at will or was there a complete lock down on traffic?
What about Delivery services? Sysco, USFoods, UPS, Fed-Ex, liquor delivery, propane, garbage, emergency services, etc.... Some of our vendors travel to us through the park on delivery loops and a lockdown inside the park would probably screw up our services outside the park as well.
What about Forest Service stuff? Was Cherry Lake closed? What about campgrounds, trailhead parking areas, etc...? Since we are outside the park, our guests can still stay with us and if we want to keep them from leaving then I need to be able to tell them where else they can recreate and have a good time.
Thanks for any insight. I believe this has a slim chance of actually happening but proper prior planning prevents piss-poor performance.
-n
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Feb 21, 2011 - 10:47pm PT
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If we do have a shut down and we do end up rallying in the Valley - will the bathrooms be open and can we still get a latte in between riots or should I bring my own French Press??
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Feb 22, 2011 - 12:39am PT
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In the closure of 95/96, if you lived in the park, then you could get into the park and out of the park at will. I don't recall anyone even covering the gate, but I could be wrong about that. A closed sign is what I remember. You could also have friends visit. Most regular deliveries also occurred. Food, mail, gas.. ect.
The company fed us the bracebridge dinner that is normally in the Awahnee, in the cafeteria at Curry. They said the park wouldn't let us use the Awahnee. Kind of strange but it was fun to have the dinner with all the entertainers. Who is the chick who wears the fur with something written in red paint on it? Something about not killing animals for fur. She was there.
In 1990, during the fires, I went backpacking for 12 days. It was glorious. I met one backcountry ranger and he started to kick me out, but then changed his mind and decided to be cool. I wish I could remember his name. I think he was seasonal.
It is amazing to be in the park with nobody here.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Feb 22, 2011 - 12:51am PT
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Yes, the National Parks were shut down before: I was guiding a group on Maui and on Hawaii Island, and we couldn't visit Haleakala or Volcanoes National Parks; it was a BIG BUMMER for folks who'd come so far...
I was a volunteer for the National Biological Survey living in Volcanoes National Park at the time of the shut-down. We were paid $300/month living expenses (food) and had housing provided in the ranger housing units in the park, and use of the 4x4 ranger trucks.
During the shut-down, we were not allowed to use the vehicles (no insurance coverage), so we were stranded. I think we stayed in the park during the time, but couldn't go shopping for groceries unless someone from outside the park came to drive us.
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Feb 22, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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I was in Red Rocks during the last gov't shut down. We were camping at the old Oak Creek campground and it was managed by this retired couple. I thought for sure we would get the boot, since that was the standing order from the gov't.
But the couple said "F the gov't, everyone can stay." And not only that, they said we didn't have to pay the fee.
Loop road was shut, but no big deal. We hiked out to Oak Creek Canyon from the campground and had a great time climbing.
Those old folks were patriots, to say the least!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 22, 2011 - 12:55am PT
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hey there say, werner.... ohmy...
as to this:
No that applies to everyone including me.
This happened before when they closed the park. We could not do anything.
We just went to the mall in Fresno instead and stared at junk .....
how sad.... :(
say, to nutjob... wow, thanks for sharing, as well...
never knew that, either...
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Feb 22, 2011 - 01:06am PT
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Closure put non-essential government workers on furlough and suspended non-essential services.
November 14 through November 19, 1995
and
December 16, 1995 to January 6, 1996.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Feb 22, 2011 - 01:18am PT
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In the last closure all regular deliveries were allowed in.
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Feb 22, 2011 - 01:54am PT
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In the last closure all regular deliveries were allowed in.
Perfect. I'll simply mail myself to the Valley in a big box. UPS ground from San Jose should get there next day.
What can Brown do for you?
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426
climber
☬
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Feb 22, 2011 - 08:28am PT
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Werner, Ekat and anyone else who was there in 1996, would you mind telling me a little more about what it was like?
My friend was out there back then, said it was pretty awesome, as in "frickkin quiet" I think was the phrase he used...
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damo62
Social climber
Brisbane
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Feb 23, 2011 - 01:11pm PT
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Hmmm, a skeletal crew with Fattrad, seems oxymoronic.
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Byran
climber
Merced, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
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I was under the impression that between the big contract with the concessionaire and all the camping and entrance fees they collect every day, that the NPS makes big bucks in Yosemite. Am I wrong? If they're going to shut down all the parks because of a budget crisis, why not leave the ones open that are actually making the government money.
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Feb 23, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
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Byran--
I think this is how it works.
The money Yos collects from entrance fees doesn't go directly to the park. It goes to the fed. gov't and is then reallocated to parks only for pre-approved projects (e.g.: maintenance of facilities, bulletin boards, etc.). The federal budget covers interpretative programs, salaries, and maintenance and there are also separate funds for specific projects (like maintenance of a helicopter for SAR, for e.g.). Some road maintenance also falls under federal highway funds. There are also ways the park can charge fees for certain programs as "cost-recovery programs" (e.g.: permits) and that money does go directly to the park, but is not income, because it is only meant to cover the cost of specific existing programs.
As far as concessions contracts, I'm not sure if that's a contract b/w the NPS (federal level) or if that money goes directly to Yos. Understanding that most other income is reallocated by the federal gov't once the annual budget is passed, I can imagine concession income is the same (i.e.: it doesn't go directly to the park).
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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That's what you get for letting The Government sieze up all that land.
If the parks were privately owned and operated they would remain open, because closed parks make no money.
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M. Volland
Trad climber
Grand Canyon
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From what I've been hearing recently. In the event of a government shutdown, the BLM has worked out a way to only close small parks. Larger parks, ie. Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Yellowstone, ect. will remain open.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Yeah Chaz, and you could ride motorcycles up the four mile trail! Fuk the man!
and fuk the republicans, in this particular case! stupid passive agressive pissing contest....
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Chaz: Do you honestly believe there would even be anything other than a 5 star hotel and/or a private ranch with no trespassing signs everywhere if the republicans had their way? Privatization leads to Private Property / No Trespassing signs, PERIOD.
Republicans are amazingly delusional people. It's like a disease where you can't help but to vote for a vague idea that is nothing close to reality and the whole time what you vote for are policies that work DIRECTLY against you and then benefit of society as a whole. What kind of, "I live in a fantasy land" mentality must it take to be republican these days????
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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If the parks were privately owned and operated they would remain open, because closed parks make no money.
Come on Chaz. Why do you think the access fund exists? Because we lose access all the time. Not just on public land, but on private land. Your hatred of government is unbalanced.
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WBraun
climber
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Hey ...
We're still open.
Rocks are still being served as we speak, although it's raining hard today .....
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Roughster writes:
"Chaz: Do you honestly believe there would even be anything other than a 5 star hotel and/or a private ranch with no trespassing signs everywhere if the republicans had their way? Privatization leads to Private Property / No Trespassing signs, PERIOD."
Believe it? I see it with my own eyes every day!
I live next to a PRIVATE nature preserve. Thousands of acres owned by one guy; Jack Dangermond ( maybe you've heard of him ).
No hotel, no private ranch, and the only signs are those prohibiting motor vehicles. No motorcycles, Jaybro! Hikers, horses, bicycles, kites, beer, smokers, and dogs without a leash are all welcome.
The cops are hip to the no-motorcycle rule, too. They get the helicopter up on the report of off-roading in the nature preserve. ESRI ( Dangermond's operation ) is a big account in town.
You can bet your ass the Crafton Hills Nature Preserve won't be closing when the Government shuts down. Dangermond doesn't stop for anybody.
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