Politics, God and Religion vs. Science


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Dr. F.

So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
I do not support more population growth
But what can I do, nothing

it will happen, and in my opinion, things will get a lot worse, until the human population is brought down to sustainable levels

I do not know what the best human population would be, but 10 billion is too MANY

I propose a cap of 1 billion

And I do agree on the fact that some women love to be mothers, some not

It is a choice, let the mothers that want to care for a child have babies

let the women who would be a lousy mothers, and will not provide the care needed for bringing up a child in suitable environment, abort if she gets pregnant

I have said it before
Every women should have the morning after pill in her Cabinet, just in case
Dr. F.

So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 03:14pm PT
(human) life begins at conception

I may agree partially with this, but it doesn't matter

The women still has a choice, and if she aborts, it is NOT murder

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2011 - 03:21pm PT
Dr. F, why do you say nobody discusses these issues face to face? I routinely talk about these things with the people I climb with or kayak with. My views are generally the opposite of my climbing partners and I have never had a conversation go south. I think the reason is that I have never forced or pushed my views on others, just discuss them.
Paul Martzen

Trad climber
Jan 20, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
Dr. F, If you believe that overpopulation is our biggest problem, shouldn't you be supporting movements that are likely to increase the death rate? Shouldn't you be supporting militarism, clash of civilizations, religious intolerance, medical quackery, privatizing water and waste services so only a few can afford them, etc. etc.? Seems like increasing the death rate would be much easier than decreasing the birth rate.

Seems like over population is a direct consequence of liberalism and scientific advancements. Technological advancements in food production and waste management are probably the main reasons for population increase, don't you think? And liberals are always trying to get people to get along and not kill each other. If it was up to conservatives, wouldn't we be down to scattered tribes lead by kings and dictators, at frequent war with each other?

If you believe in evolution and survival of the fittest and survival of your own progeny, shouldn't you be encouraging everyone else to believe in less fit, less effective beliefs, so that you will have a greater advantage?

Just trying to be humorous in pointing out the odd contradictions.
Dr. F.

So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
I was doing El Cap with Mike M.
and I thought I could talk about these things too, at the time

so I ask Mike what he thinks the purpose of life was

He says "for God sakes Dr. F, we are on El Cap, this is no place to talk about deep inner thoughts, or complex issues"

He was right!!

around the Campfire is Not the right place, at the belay, at the crags
(maybe the campfire, but it may make some people feel at ease, this is not for everyone)

Maybe hiking in, you can discuss stuff

but most of time NO, it does not happen

Forums like this are absolutely the best place to discuss this stuff

Because you have time to think out a response, correct a mistake, evaluate your ideas before posting them

and where else can you interact with people with such differing opinions

Most of my friends are all wacky left wingers, like me, so we can't argue the issues, we already agree on them
Dr. F.

So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 04:36pm PT
Paul Martzen
I do not agree with your statements
thanks for the post

Ice climber
the ghost
Jan 20, 2011 - 04:50pm PT
What has science done for me?
-clean water
-proper sanitation
-better nutrition via food variety and vitamins
-improved clothing
-electricity in my home
-microwave ovens
-stainless steel
-nylon climbing ropes
-epoxy & fiberglass kayaks
-tide & current predictions
-the internet
-ham & marine handheld radios
-digital cameras
-gps units
-mp3 players

What has religion done for me?
-christians think the natural world is theirs to exploit/plunder
-religion is used to fool the masses, enabling the "rulers" to get away with greed & corruption
-christianity has contributed to a culture of war and violence
-christianity has slowed scientific advancement

Jan 20, 2011 - 05:30pm PT
-clean water
-proper sanitation
-better nutrition via food variety and vitamins
-etc etc etc

All existed and were even far better in past ages before modern science stuck it's big ass nose in everything.

In The past people lived up to 100,000 years.

Modern science has no real claim such as Malemute's

Dr. F.

So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 05:39pm PT
Modern science has no real claim such as Malemute's

The Anti-scientist fights back

Millions die from bad water every year now!!!


Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 20, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
There are two groups
so true

So untrue...

You only believe this because you see your point of view and those who agree with you as one group and everyone else as the other.

There is actually a very broad spectrum of ideas and opinions about politics, religion and science with a relative few but very noisy extremists at either end of the spectrum.

Trad climber
fresno, ca
Jan 20, 2011 - 05:56pm PT
What's up all. I have stayed away from the relig/politico threads for a whil due to the incessant hamster wheel discussions that seem to head nowhere. I'll chime in here because it seems pretty civil so far. Yall probably know I'm a committed Christian.

I hope to change the minds of those who think they have Christians figured out. I'm a centrist politically,I'm as environmentally conscious and planet friendly as I can be, but a skeptic ofdoomsday manmade global warming agenda. I'm a capitalist as well as a guy who spends a good bit of time trying to be as selfless as possible. I'm as selfish as the next guy one day, and find myself reaching out with time and skills and money to the worlds poor and broken the next. I'm a work in progress.

My beliefs compell me, they are the lens with which I see the world. There are simple Truths of the Universe and humanity that I cannot deny and many things I consistently challenge. I am not blind. I am a scientist and at the same time an unabashed believer that the Bible is the inspired and perfect word of the one true God.

I like politics, they teach me about civilization and the interaction between man and law and the democracy we live in. Most politicians are a bore and in it for themselves. There are a few good ones out there though. They give me hope.

With this as my basic stance, I'd love to enter the conversation here. Thanks Dr. F for starting it. Hopefully I can be a clear voice for Christianity and that we all learn a lil something from challenging eachothers hearts and minds.

And because its a climbing forum, here's a climbing photo as my buy in.
Traversing between the top of the U-Notch and summit of North Pal
Traversing between the top of the U-Notch and summit of North Pal
Credit: micronut

Jan 20, 2011 - 05:59pm PT
Millions die from bad drugs made by modern pharma every year now!!!

You're the big Preacher. Yes you Dr F.

You start all these threads to do your incessant preaching ...

You should start the church of Dr F along with all your other believers.
Dr. F.

So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
I just love all the different viewpoints

WB, we are trying to keep this civil
so please tell us your views, but leave your opinions of the messenger to yourself

You seem to reject all ideas, and then call us names

we can come up with some good names for you if we wanted, but won't

Jan 20, 2011 - 06:11pm PT
I just gave you my viewpoint and you fall apart so quickly.

A viewpoint here even has to be subjected to your own specific approval.

That's exactly like a religious preacher ....

Mountain climber
GOP Convention
Jan 20, 2011 - 06:15pm PT
Comrade F,

YOU MUST COME TO FACELIFT. You'll hear plenty of discussion around the campfire between bluey, Crowley, JohnE, happiegirl, myself and others. Your job will be to count how many times Crowley tells me to GFYS.

Maybe we can get Werner there this year, he usually avoids me.


The evil one
Dr. F.

So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 06:23pm PT
WB should be avoided
Dr. F.

So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 06:36pm PT
This plant is more than 7000 years old
which disproves the bible for me
Credit: Dr. F.

Jan 20, 2011 - 06:57pm PT
Dr F

Just like you should be avoided.

The very first thing you do is call me "The anti-scientist".

Now that's a name.

The next thing you do as a total hypocrite is say I call you names.

Not that I even care except to pointing out your veiled and outright hypocritical tactics against anyone who doesn't toe your line.

You really need to take a good look at your own self dude and not just always screaming at everything outside of yourself.
Dr. F.

So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
Thanks WB
you told me

I want to hear their ideas, and if they are wrong, point it out
except to pointing out your veiled and outright hypocritical tactics against anyone who doesn't toe your line.

Should we all go along with our wrong ideas,
even though they are Destroying this WORLD

is that really the best policy, for you, it is

maybe if they knew they were wrong, they would change, and then be right

Ice climber
the ghost
Jan 20, 2011 - 07:13pm PT
Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

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