Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 41 - 60 of total 23258 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
I was doing El Cap with Mike M.
and I thought I could talk about these things too, at the time

so I ask Mike what he thinks the purpose of life was

He says "for God sakes Dr. F, we are on El Cap, this is no place to talk about deep inner thoughts, or complex issues"

He was right!!

around the Campfire is Not the right place, at the belay, at the crags
(maybe the campfire, but it may make some people feel at ease, this is not for everyone)

Maybe hiking in, you can discuss stuff

but most of time NO, it does not happen

Forums like this are absolutely the best place to discuss this stuff

Why?
Because you have time to think out a response, correct a mistake, evaluate your ideas before posting them

and where else can you interact with people with such differing opinions

Most of my friends are all wacky left wingers, like me, so we can't argue the issues, we already agree on them
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 04:36pm PT
Paul Martzen
I do not agree with your statements
thanks for the post
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Jan 20, 2011 - 04:50pm PT
What has science done for me?
-clean water
-proper sanitation
-better nutrition via food variety and vitamins
-improved clothing
-electricity in my home
-refrigerators
-microwave ovens
-eyeglasses
-antibiotics
-stainless steel
-plastics
-nylon climbing ropes
-epoxy & fiberglass kayaks
-tide & current predictions
-computers
-the internet
-ham & marine handheld radios
-digital cameras
-gps units
-mp3 players

What has religion done for me?
-christians think the natural world is theirs to exploit/plunder
-religion is used to fool the masses, enabling the "rulers" to get away with greed & corruption
-christianity has contributed to a culture of war and violence
-christianity has slowed scientific advancement
WBraun

climber
Jan 20, 2011 - 05:30pm PT
-clean water
-proper sanitation
-better nutrition via food variety and vitamins
-etc etc etc

All existed and were even far better in past ages before modern science stuck it's big ass nose in everything.

In The past people lived up to 100,000 years.

Modern science has no real claim such as Malemute's


Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 05:39pm PT
Modern science has no real claim such as Malemute's

The Anti-scientist fights back

Millions die from bad water every year now!!!

Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 20, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
There are two groups
so true

So untrue...

You only believe this because you see your point of view and those who agree with you as one group and everyone else as the other.

There is actually a very broad spectrum of ideas and opinions about politics, religion and science with a relative few but very noisy extremists at either end of the spectrum.
micronut

Trad climber
fresno, ca
Jan 20, 2011 - 05:56pm PT
What's up all. I have stayed away from the relig/politico threads for a whil due to the incessant hamster wheel discussions that seem to head nowhere. I'll chime in here because it seems pretty civil so far. Yall probably know I'm a committed Christian.

I hope to change the minds of those who think they have Christians figured out. I'm a centrist politically,I'm as environmentally conscious and planet friendly as I can be, but a skeptic ofdoomsday manmade global warming agenda. I'm a capitalist as well as a guy who spends a good bit of time trying to be as selfless as possible. I'm as selfish as the next guy one day, and find myself reaching out with time and skills and money to the worlds poor and broken the next. I'm a work in progress.

My beliefs compell me, they are the lens with which I see the world. There are simple Truths of the Universe and humanity that I cannot deny and many things I consistently challenge. I am not blind. I am a scientist and at the same time an unabashed believer that the Bible is the inspired and perfect word of the one true God.

I like politics, they teach me about civilization and the interaction between man and law and the democracy we live in. Most politicians are a bore and in it for themselves. There are a few good ones out there though. They give me hope.

With this as my basic stance, I'd love to enter the conversation here. Thanks Dr. F for starting it. Hopefully I can be a clear voice for Christianity and that we all learn a lil something from challenging eachothers hearts and minds.

And because its a climbing forum, here's a climbing photo as my buy in.
Traversing between the top of the U-Notch and summit of North Pal
Traversing between the top of the U-Notch and summit of North Pal
Credit: micronut
WBraun

climber
Jan 20, 2011 - 05:59pm PT
Millions die from bad drugs made by modern pharma every year now!!!

You're the big Preacher. Yes you Dr F.

You start all these threads to do your incessant preaching ...

You should start the church of Dr F along with all your other believers.
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
I just love all the different viewpoints

WB, we are trying to keep this civil
so please tell us your views, but leave your opinions of the messenger to yourself

You seem to reject all ideas, and then call us names

we can come up with some good names for you if we wanted, but won't
WBraun

climber
Jan 20, 2011 - 06:11pm PT
I just gave you my viewpoint and you fall apart so quickly.

A viewpoint here even has to be subjected to your own specific approval.

That's exactly like a religious preacher ....
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 06:23pm PT
WB should be avoided
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 06:36pm PT
This plant is more than 7000 years old
which disproves the bible for me
Credit: Dr. F.
WBraun

climber
Jan 20, 2011 - 06:57pm PT
Dr F

Just like you should be avoided.

The very first thing you do is call me "The anti-scientist".

Now that's a name.

The next thing you do as a total hypocrite is say I call you names.

Not that I even care except to pointing out your veiled and outright hypocritical tactics against anyone who doesn't toe your line.

You really need to take a good look at your own self dude and not just always screaming at everything outside of yourself.
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
Thanks WB
you told me

I want to hear their ideas, and if they are wrong, point it out
except to pointing out your veiled and outright hypocritical tactics against anyone who doesn't toe your line.

Should we all go along with our wrong ideas,
even though they are Destroying this WORLD

is that really the best policy, for you, it is

maybe if they knew they were wrong, they would change, and then be right
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Jan 20, 2011 - 07:13pm PT
Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html
micronut

Trad climber
fresno, ca
Jan 20, 2011 - 07:39pm PT
Malemute,
If you take some time to look at the context of the Old Testament vs. The new, you would understand the sillyness of that post. Those laws, though kinda silly sounding these days, were the way the Isrealites showed reverence to and obeyed God. When Jesus showed up on the scene, the Old Law was abolished, and the only way to get close to God was to "Trust Him with all ones heart and sould and mind." That's the whole point of the Bible. At one time, obedience to the law was how you got to know God. Its no longer the case. Now you have access through His son. God is unchanging.

So, that's the way Christians look at it if that helps.

Looking back at our early American laws (No Donkeys in Philadelphia on Saturdays, punishable by law) from the 1700s would be kinda funny to a teenager these days, but Democracy is still the best game in town.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Jan 20, 2011 - 07:43pm PT
My point is that any christian that believes that the bible is the literal word of god is a hypocrite.
When Jesus showed up on the scene, the Old Law was abolished
So the old testament should be published in a separate book, and called "the ex-word of god"?

Weren't the gospels written & collected between 200 & 400 AD? Why is the old testament in the book at all? As a history lesson? To reinforce the notion that the Christians were the chosen people? Why would god choose one tribe over another?
cintune

climber
the Moon and Antarctica
Jan 20, 2011 - 08:00pm PT
bestill

Trad climber
s. ca.
Jan 20, 2011 - 08:06pm PT
So if you are a jew, you had better start thinking of changing to a christian or all hell will break loose, but wait, silly old me, I forgot it won't matter because two thousand twelve is just one year away. AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
micronut

Trad climber
fresno, ca
Jan 20, 2011 - 08:07pm PT
Malemute,
The word hypocrate doesn't really work here.

Its not the "Ex-word" as you put it. At the time, its how the people got close to God, that's all. It was His way of communicating with them. He said from the beginning that it would be this way, until He came in the form of His son, Jesus, to change the relationship between man and himself, does that make sense?

Laws change. They can become obsolete without being invalid.

Think of it like this. I'm a parent. When my kids are three years old, its pretty much...Dad is Law.
"Don't touch the stove"
"Wash your hands after you wipe"
"Don't run in the street!"
"NEVER talk to strangers."
---LAW, in love


Now, my daughter is 13.....
I'm still Dad, I still have full authority in love.
But the way we communicate has changed.
"Touch the stove if you want......learn a lesson...be quick if you do touch it."
"Run in the street and have a blast...just watch out for cars."
"Make new friends, greet strangers with kindness and respect....look out for perverts."
No less authority...just a new way to be her Dad.

Your thoughts?
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