Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 21121 - 21140 of total 22398 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 1, 2014 - 02:50pm PT
"Can the crawling creator crawling in the same dark as his creature create while crawling?" One of the questions he put to himself as between two crawls he lay.

And if the obvious answer were not far to seek, the most helpful was another matter. And many crawls were necessary before he could finally make up his imagination on this score. Adding to himself without conviction in the same breath as always that no answer of his was sacred ....

So while in the same breath deploring a fancy so reason-ridden and observing how revocable its flights he could not but answer finally:

"No he could not. Could not conceivably create while crawling in the same create dark as his creature."
WBraun

climber
Apr 1, 2014 - 02:52pm PT
god can't fail.

You're an atheist.

There is no God in the atheist mind.

He doesn't exist to you

But only in your soul ......
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 1, 2014 - 02:53pm PT
Tvash uses examples of flying unicorns to illustrate wonky folk who believe anything, while we from the other camp howl at wankers who talk about DNA creating itself (or "God doing it as well), just "really slowly," or really smart scientists "creating" life and sentient computers, having no idea what sentience is, and conflating it with data processing, or expecting evolution to explain everything.

In fact we all have our illusions and beliefs that make unicorns seem downright credible.

Credit: Largo

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 1, 2014 - 02:53pm PT
WBraun:
god can't fail.
You're an atheist.
There is no God in the atheist mind.
He doesn't exist to you
But only in your soul ......


God is atheist. He's in my soul... stoopeed man... god fails... god bleeds...
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
And this for Norton.

Werner is not a Buddhist. In fact he has criticized Buddhists on this thread for being nihilistic.

If you're going to insult him for religion, at least try to get the religion straight.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
Truth is,

if the main woo pusher here were truly serious about "sentience" etc. he'd read a book like Consciousness: Confessions of a Romantic Reductionist (2012) by Koch; then he'd leave his rhetoric, sarcasm and all such related behind, and pose critical, inquiring, thoughtful posts in reponse. (Much like what goes on in college depts around the country everyday now.) In other words, his approach would be very different. He'd also quiet his lap dog so a decent discourse could be had.

.....

Christof Koch on David Chalmers...
"Dave taught me an important lesson about philosophers. I had invited him to speak in front of a neurobiological and engineering audience. Afterward, over a bottle of wine, I was astounded when he insisted that no empirical fact, no discovery in biology or conceptual advance in mathematics, could dissuade him of this unbridgeable gap between the two worlds. The Hard
Problem was not amenable to any such advances. I was aghast. How could mere words, without the benefit of either a mathematical or a physico-empirical framework, establish anything with that degree of certainty? To me, he had a powerful argument, but certainly no proof."

Consciousness: Confessions of a Romantic Reductionist (2012) by Koch
WBraun

climber
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:11pm PT
It's no problem Jan

Me and Norton have been going at each other for a while now LOL

Kind of stupid and funny at the same time.

Anyways ...

I do hold the utmost respect to all the Buddhists and the Great Lord Buddha himself always ....
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
You know somebody should turn this thread into an opera or at least a play... maybe a reality tv show.
Characters coming in and saying their bit then leaving the stage as others come in and insult them.
I see a big hit.
Needs a new title though.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
And this for Norton.

Werner is not a Buddhist. In fact he has criticized Buddhists on this thread for being nihilistic.

If you're going to insult him for religion, at least try to get the religion straight.

nope

Werner is on record for saying he "worships his Lord Buddha"

secondly, Braun has been stalking me on the forum for years, from thread to thread
and without my prior provocation he spews out his "fuk you" crap to me

you ought to get YOUR facts straight before you jump to very wrong conclusions

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:18pm PT
Buddha bar?
Rumble in the STjungel?
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:19pm PT
Tvash uses examples of flying unicorns to illustrate wonky folk who believe anything, while we from the other camp howl at wankers who talk about DNA creating itself (or "God doing it as well), just "really slowly," or really smart scientists "creating" life and sentient computers, having no idea what sentience is, and conflating it with data processing, or expecting evolution to explain everything.

The Strawmanians are at the gate again, so I'll throw them some red unicorn meat.

If you self identify with the flying unicorn multiverse bubble, that is, of course, your prerogative. My unicorns fly because they are made of puppy tail wags and the laughter of five year olds - they represent no one but they're own happy rainbow shitting selves - an homage to the boundless joy that my atheistic cinder of a heart will never express.

No one ever posited DNA creating itself. Quite the opposite, I specifically posited that DNA is too fragile a molecule (it is) for survive such an evolutionary conestoga wagon trip. No - the more Chuck Connor-like RNA likely pioneered the IT function of the Wild West of Self Replication. The steps that came before RNA burst on the scene with its 30 30 Winchester blazing is very much a focus of much study these days.

What is interesting to me is the general consensus among the non-crazy that the very complicated WE evolved from the much less complicated THEM - single celled organisms - yet a subset of these very same true believers find it unimaginable that a comparatively complicated THEM, in turn, evolved from even simpler parts.

Yes, there must be, indeed, an evolutionary cutoff early on in forever in search of its miracle, its Monolith, is Little Bang that created the Spark of Life (SOL) just prior to the point at which things just began banging each other on their own.

No, we haven't found the goo > self replication link, despite much searching. It's 2014 for Christ's sake - time's up. Hand me that flogiston.

So, too, goes sentience, even though we actually know a lot about it at this point, albeit at the sub component level. There may be a multiverse where we know nothing about sentience and where driving more actually cools the joint down, too.

That last flogiston-tini really hit the spot. Shake me up another. I think I've found a universal salve for what ails me.
WBraun

climber
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
Norton

You can insult me as much as you want as it has no effect whatsoever.

But please do not insult Jan.

She does not deserve your silly misinformed insults .....
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:45pm PT
What a bunch of flagrant bs. You're the chief tone setter here in terms of schoolyard negativity if not vulgarity going back years.

Woo and other bs needs to be smacked down at every opportunity.

Norton, keep the charge! :)

.....

EDIT For the aft-going. Excellent illustration, Norton.

That's just what I'm talking about. Don't respond to it, you lose.
Do respond to it, you lose. Pretty tedious after a while. :(

And of course all the more incensing and/or frustrating the more one actually cares about these subjects.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Apr 1, 2014 - 03:59pm PT
Norton-

While Werner may worship the Lord Buddha he also worships the Lord Krishna and the Lord Jesus and probably a few others which no theologically aware Buddhist would do. In fact, most theologically savvy Buddhists would say that exalting Buddha to be worshipped was a mistake in the first place.

There's lots of interesting non fundamentalist theology out there if you go looking, especially in India. Disliking someone should not be a reason to misrepresent their theology.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 1, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
oh?

and how exactly did I insult Jan?

by stating that her conclusion about me "insulting" you was based on wrong facts?

that is not insulting, that is correcting, as she obviously does not read all the threads

there is nothing funny about this, Werner, you get away with your vulgar insults because of your climbing status, and not because you are any kind of decent man

here is just one of many from you

photo not found
Missing photo ID#351714
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Apr 1, 2014 - 04:01pm PT
Don't worry Norton, I wasn't insulted. I went to grad school in America so I'm used to heated discussions.
WBraun

climber
Apr 1, 2014 - 04:14pm PT
Norton your silly misinformed insults only pertained to the "Buddhists" argument.

Please try and understand a simple thing just for once .....



BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Apr 1, 2014 - 04:14pm PT

There is no certainty here is not even certainty of your own existence or of the universes existence, you keep faith to a minimal, you assume you exist everything else you question and not accept any thing as fact until your standard of evidence is satisfied. Reading something in a book wrote hundreds of years ago should not be satisfactory, nor is seeing a divine being. after all what is more likely you're hallucinating or that god exists? Low standards of evidence and the fear of un-certainty is what makes people believe in god.

I am absolutely certain Jesus lives! The only certainty I hold. When my life hit a speedbump, I recalled hearing how Jesus was the great leveler. So I seeked Him through His word. When I mindfully, wholeheartedly decided to follow Him and give Him all the praise. He sent the HolySpirit to comfort and guide me. He has shown me in multiple ways of His presence. None that I would share here. Through prayer and praise the power of Jesus is CERTAIN!

I don't know why God picked me. But I sure hope and pray you all find Him, soon.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Apr 1, 2014 - 04:19pm PT
Credit: glanton

I am absolutely certain Jesus lives!

Me, too!!!

.....

Make no mistake. The likes of go-be and blu would have atheists in the dungeon - glassing the instruments of conversion or recantation - if they had the numbers. (As sweet go-be himself has strongly implied several times in as many years.)

No bleeding heart for Abrahamic supernaturalists here, whatever the variety. They need to suck it up and deal with their outdated beliefs.
WBraun

climber
Apr 1, 2014 - 04:22pm PT
So now back to sentience :-)

Mr Fruit

What were you experiencing right before you licked the two terminals of the 9 volt battery?
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