Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 22350 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
a lack of Faith in God are the primary causes of all of our problems,

I find this idea frighting

I don't beleive in God, and it is not a primary cause of our problems
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Jan 20, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
Sorry for cluttering up tour soapbox. I will go away now. Enjoy your show.
jstan

climber
Jan 20, 2011 - 02:28pm PT
Wayno:
There will always be conflict if my present hypothesis (posted above) is correct.

The group of people who cannot bear uncertainty have to control those who don't mind it.

They have to if they are to eliminate all uncertainty.

We have an evil history and will always have an evil history because of the way we are built.



Now if this history is limited to one race for example, then we can trace back to a genetic root.

Were this correlation to be firmed up scientifically we might see DNA work done.

I suspect the coding will be found there.

Alternatively we might do DNA sequencing of people on the two sides of the abortion question but for anthropological reasons I think racial typing should be done first. How so?

Our present specie emerged from Africa in one or perhaps two waves. The individuals leaving became geographically isolated to a degree as is made apparent by the evolutionary differences in different regions of the world. The characteristic being discussed here may be one such evolved characteristic.

Now to a degree the invention of the airplane is systematically destroying our one chance to deconvolve this "human" characteristic. We need soon to locate still isolated populations, determine their history as regards ability/inability to tolerate uncertainty and begin collection of data.

Many science fiction stories have been written about galactic aliens far more advanced than ourselves.

This may be a path were we to choose to walk it.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Jan 20, 2011 - 02:28pm PT
as you said, f, let's discuss

what is your scientific position on abortion; i believe that my position on abortion is scientifically sound

i'll listen/read and respect, but that doesn't mean i won't try to persuade you to change your mind because for me it's a matter of life and death
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 02:36pm PT
Here is my view of Abortion
Women get pregnant all the time, if they get pregnant, and don't have a stable family life, and a loving husband, money to support the child, and the desire to bring up a child, then they should abort

and they should have a place to go, that's safe, and FREE, to get their abortion

Abortion saves lives in my opinion

What is Humanity's NUMBER 1 problem
Over Population!!
so abortions are a great way to curb population growth as well
the living will be rewarded by the sacrifice the mother made to abort

This opinion is scientifically sound
locker

Social climber
Jan 20, 2011 - 02:37pm PT


We ALL die!!!...

The ABORTED just get there SOONER...

;-)

Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
I am right about Facelift
I will eat your meat, and drink your beer
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Jan 20, 2011 - 02:43pm PT
What is Humanity's NUMBER 1 problem
Over Population!!

This is where we part ways. I think humanities number one problem is lack of Faith in God. There is enough for all, just not enough for everyone's greed. When 500 families own 50 percent of the worlds wealth, then you have a problem with greed, not lack.
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 02:45pm PT
I don't drink wine, it gives me headaches
so I will not go to facelift
so I am still right

So I can drink Bleuring's beer if I come??
are you sure he wants me to drink his beer?
locker

Social climber
Jan 20, 2011 - 02:47pm PT

I don't drink wine either...

It doesn't give me a headache though...

It gives me the urge to do 4 grams of CRACK...(maybe 5)

;-)

Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 02:51pm PT
1000s of species are going extinct as we have this conversation, because of too many humans expanding into new undeveloped regions, and destroying the virgin habitat

yes greed, but the real reason, too many humans

and we can't even discuss Over Population with the non-scientific, since they are not on the same page of understanding of the issues

its not just other animals and plants, we are running out of resources we take for granted, GCC, wars, famine, disease

endless problems that are just going to get worse as we populate more, since we have zero restrictions on population growth,

and in actuality, population growth is encouraged by the Corporatists, and the religious special interest groups
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Jan 20, 2011 - 02:55pm PT
Bruce, I would say it the other way. God is compassion. Where people start to lose it is when they don't understand what compassion/love is. They have a belief that love must give someone everything that person wants, but what if the person wants to destroy everyone else. Love gives a person everything they need to grow in understanding of how things work. Because God is all there is, then we/God reap what we sow. This is karma. It is a law of the universe. When one starts to understand this, then one can understand many of the problems of this world. We have sown hatred, greed, pride, sloth and avarice, and that is what we reap.

When one sows greed out of the belief that there isn't enough, then that is what the world/universe gives one.

Another problem that people have in understanding this is they don't understand the deep complexities, so they get frustrated and give up. Life is very complex. One's history is very complex. We have had many lifetimes to screw things up and thus we won't reap immediately what we sow, as there is a lot of past actions to overcome.

Many people attain a new understanding of Karma, start to give generously, then life sticks it to them and they give up on trying to understand. They don't realize that they have a long past, and much to overcome, plus a subconscious that has untruths buried in it that will sabotage them.
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
I thank you all for your viewpoints
I see we have a good beginning

The more the better
Thanks
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 02:58pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Jan 20, 2011 - 03:03pm PT
Buddha talks about the middle way. All human growth problems are solved with a connection to God's divine guidance. Life can attain a balance, but not without God. Without God, then greed and pride rule the day, and these will destroy us.

And Dr. F. I am not in support of having endless babies. At this point in time most humans don't have the ability to control how many babies they have by spiritual means, so birth control is useful. In mans current spiritual consciousness, it can take lifetimes to learn how to control when one has a child. That is part of what I meant when I spoke about science giving man the freedom to pursue the things of the spirit. Having too many babies limits ones time. Yet some are meant to have lots of babies, as that is their current path.

This world can and will support 10 billion souls easily. But of course there are lots of changes that will need to occur first.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jan 20, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
(human) life begins at conception

Please show me evidence to support your belief that this is scientifically defensible (and creationist "science" doesn't count)

Here's a concept for you to chew on while you find your support: "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny."

Furthermore, why does your view on morality have any bearing on how someone else chooses to live their life?

Legal rights for a human being aren't bestowed until birth. There are myriad reasons that abortion should remain safe & legal.
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
I do not support more population growth
But what can I do, nothing

it will happen, and in my opinion, things will get a lot worse, until the human population is brought down to sustainable levels

I do not know what the best human population would be, but 10 billion is too MANY

I propose a cap of 1 billion



And I do agree on the fact that some women love to be mothers, some not

It is a choice, let the mothers that want to care for a child have babies

let the women who would be a lousy mothers, and will not provide the care needed for bringing up a child in suitable environment, abort if she gets pregnant

I have said it before
Every women should have the morning after pill in her Cabinet, just in case
Dr. F.

climber
So Cal
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 03:14pm PT
(human) life begins at conception


I may agree partially with this, but it doesn't matter

The women still has a choice, and if she aborts, it is NOT murder
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Jan 20, 2011 - 03:21pm PT
Dr. F, why do you say nobody discusses these issues face to face? I routinely talk about these things with the people I climb with or kayak with. My views are generally the opposite of my climbing partners and I have never had a conversation go south. I think the reason is that I have never forced or pushed my views on others, just discuss them.
Paul Martzen

Trad climber
Fresno
Jan 20, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
Dr. F, If you believe that overpopulation is our biggest problem, shouldn't you be supporting movements that are likely to increase the death rate? Shouldn't you be supporting militarism, clash of civilizations, religious intolerance, medical quackery, privatizing water and waste services so only a few can afford them, etc. etc.? Seems like increasing the death rate would be much easier than decreasing the birth rate.

Seems like over population is a direct consequence of liberalism and scientific advancements. Technological advancements in food production and waste management are probably the main reasons for population increase, don't you think? And liberals are always trying to get people to get along and not kill each other. If it was up to conservatives, wouldn't we be down to scattered tribes lead by kings and dictators, at frequent war with each other?

If you believe in evolution and survival of the fittest and survival of your own progeny, shouldn't you be encouraging everyone else to believe in less fit, less effective beliefs, so that you will have a greater advantage?

Just trying to be humorous in pointing out the odd contradictions.
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