Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:33am PT
God inscribed the ten commandments into every newborn's heart.





Edit: it's called creation. Brought to you from Science.
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:37am PT
God inscribed the ten commandments into every newborn's heart.

It must be in Hebrew because I can't read it ;)
MH2

climber
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:57am PT
Our job is to record how other people live and what they think.


Jan,

Are you aware of any substantial efforts on the part of the "other people" at recording how we live and what we think? The process of the anthropologist as you describe it could be applied by any culture to any other culture and it would be as interesting to hear what a different culture would make of ours as to hear what a Western anthropologist finds in that culture.
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Jan 17, 2014 - 03:20am PT
"No one gives a sh!t about them anyways except more of their own stupid kind ......"

Didn't Jesus say that in his sermon on the mount? Maybe I'm thinking of Muhammed as he sat on his camel... no, no it was the Buddha under the Bodi tree... anyway it was some deeply spiritual guru filled with empathy and caring for the plight of the misunderstanding masses. It's good to know we can rely on the fact that religious certainty is the healing balm of the anxiety of our existence.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 17, 2014 - 10:06am PT
Articulate, don't insinuate.

I tried. I posted an opinion. You asked me for a response but in asking you said, paraphrased, that I could not respond with images or conceptualizations.

I found the parameters of your 'discussion' to be utterly ridiculous.

If you want to have an actual discussion you're going to have to stop preaching. I don't think you can do it. Mystics simply can't help themselves, it seems to me. Always with the preaching.

I'm not responsive to 'the word', brother. I can have a dialogue, but only as equals. I'm not interested in having the parameters of our discussion pre-defined.

I use imagry and concepts in my communication. I defy you to communicate back to me without them.

Carry on.

DMT
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Jan 17, 2014 - 10:58am PT
Our job is not to prove or disprove anything.

....we simply search for all the variety of human behavior and hope to find explanations for that variety.

Jan, I had to highlight these two conflicting parts of your paragraph. Perhaps this is why the anthropologists gets such short shrift from most of the other sciences; the fact that anthropologists stand above rigid proofs and limiting equations, by providing explanations based on little more than 'feelings'. Don't get me wrong, intuition has it's place in the sciences, but then how will rival explanations be reconciled?
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jan 17, 2014 - 11:39am PT
Jgill: . . . . with little animosity and egocentric behavior.

John, it's not about either. It's about one's mind inculcated through socialization and institutionalization. Think about categories. Where do they come from? We make them up. It's a process of applying the central limit theorem to phenomena: there are phenomena, and someone selects, abstracts, and generalizes those phenomena into genres, specie, categories, classes, etc. The very act of selection presupposes abstractions and generalizations and vice versa.

I'd suggest it is always the case that we see what we believe.


Thanks Jstan. Well said.


Andrzej: You're ARE getting funny!



I have to run and get ready for a class, but maybe I can clarify the position. While it seems that the Masters (or, little ole me) appear to attack the reality of objects, it is rather the seeing of objects that is at issue. This may offend or bring-up the ire of spiritualists here, but even the Heart Sutra (a very brief declaration) summarily and utterly dismisses (but gently, very gently) ALL basic Buddhist teachings. Look, . . . the point is to turn away from ceaseless objectivizing, from conditioned conceptualizing--and perhaps above all, from the illusory volition which people imagine they live and act. All this is done in the hopes that if people discover what they are not (e.g., not objects), they may become aware of the immensity of what they, in fact, are.

When the Buddha (or other masters) point to Prajna in the Diamond Sutra (according to Han Shan, a fully realized being), he is pointing to pure subjectivity. Voidness or emptiness lies not in any object but ONLY in the cognizing of an object, indeed in all objects. It is a pure non-objective vision of transcendent subjectivity.

Gotta run.

Be well.
fongschway

Social climber
Plainfield, VT
Jan 17, 2014 - 11:52am PT
Werner, isn't your position a bit along the lines of "I would never join a club that would have me as a member"?

Of course, that may hold true until some unlucky "dude" crashes his crippled UFO into a building somewhere. At which point, technically, it becomes an UNFO.

Cellphone pictures at such an event (or even a video!) would be nice.
jstan

climber
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
I tried tto find a link for Tom's post.

Parental olfactory experience influences behavior and neural structure in subsequent generations

Brian G Dias & Kerry J Ressler


Nature Neuroscience 17, 89–96 (2014) doi:10.1038/nn.3594
Received 21 September 2013 Accepted 01 November 2013 Published online 01 December 2013 Corrected online 09 December 2013

Using olfactory molecular specificity, we examined the inheritance of parental traumatic exposure, a phenomenon that has been frequently observed, but not understood.

We subjected F0 mice to odor fear conditioning before conception and found that subsequently conceived F1 and F2 generations had an increased behavioral sensitivity to the F0-conditioned odor, but not to other odors. When an odor (acetophenone) that activates a known odorant receptor (Olfr151) was used to condition F0 mice, the behavioral sensitivity of the F1 and F2 generations to acetophenone was complemented by an enhanced neuroanatomical representation of the Olfr151 pathway.

Bisulfite sequencing of sperm DNA from conditioned F0 males and F1 naive offspring revealed CpG hypomethylation in the Olfr151 gene. In addition, in vitro fertilization, F2 inheritance and cross-fostering revealed that these transgenerational effects are inherited via parental gametes. Our findings provide a framework for addressing how environmental information may be inherited transgenerationally at behavioral, neuroanatomical and epigenetic levels.

While this may be frequently observed, I had never heard of it. Ah well. Amazing, if true. This would imply very specific agents can be found in the parent's blood stream and they can cross the umbilical barrier and/or the genetic material in protozoa is affected by the parent's immediate environment.

I really wish full articles were available on the net.
fongschway

Social climber
Plainfield, VT
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
Oh, and Werner knows I love him :-).
It's The Man!!!
It's The Man!!!
Credit: fongschway
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
Jan, I had to highlight these two conflicting parts of your paragraph. Perhaps this is why the anthropologists gets such short shrift from most of the other sciences; the fact that anthropologists stand above rigid proofs and limiting equations, by providing explanations based on little more than 'feelings'. Don't get me wrong, intuition has it's place in the sciences, but then how will rival explanations be reconciled?


This is the dark side of scientism.

The assumption here is that human behavior can be reduced to "rigid proofs and limiting equations," and if it can't be, if it can't be translated into math speak, it deserves to be given short shrift by the more exacting scientists who know what the hell they're doing. What's more, according to this daft appraisal, anthropology is now an emotional or limbic lobe art, left to wrangle "feelings" into more cogent (read cognitive) forms where the real evaluating and heavy lifting can finally get underway.

Lordy . . .

Just the preposterous idea that human existence can and should be dumbed down to to some form below " "rigid proofs and limiting equations" is proof enough that this bean counter best leave the "soft sciences" to folks with a subtler and more nuanced intelligence having little to with feelings, intuitions, or other subjective drivers.

JL
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Jan 17, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
As a matter of record, Largo....

The invention of carbon dating proved that anthropologist's belief, up to then, that all of European culture came from the ancient Greeks, rested on little more than 'feelings'.

....'feeling' inadequate this morning?
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 17, 2014 - 01:26pm PT
That all of European culture came from the ancient Greeks, rested on little more than 'feelings'.


You don't say. You might want to check those feeling tones and bone up on your Homer, Sophocles, Herodotus, Euripides, Hippocrates, Aristophanes, Plato, Aristotle, Euclid, and Archimedes, LOL.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 17, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
Testy mistics. Sensitive scientists. Oh MY!

It must be Friday!

DMT

ps. I like the ancient Greeks' take on gods about the best.

The gods must be mocked. MOCKED I tell you.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 17, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
Testy? Just poking fun. And what the hell is a mystic, anyhow? How does one qualitfy? If you removed beliefs, faith, Gods and so forth from your perception of what a mystic is, as well as all old time religious connotations, what do you have?

JL
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 17, 2014 - 02:08pm PT
I'd still have mystics promising me woo woo. ;) Just last week blublockr was promising revelations through starvation.

I don't feel compelled to try his advice, either.

DMT

ps. Cool on the fun poking, I'm with you on that score.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 17, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
What, specifically, is wuwu? I've never been clear on this - beside the standard bollocks that if you couldn't boil it in a beaker, it is not "real." But that's surly the kind of blockhead version.

JL
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 17, 2014 - 02:19pm PT
Standby and I'll go back in the recent posting and cite an example.

Cheers
DMT
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 17, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
Taking a bath and meditating.

My experience is imposible to verbalise, but I will try anyway for the benefit of Others.

1. The ceiling fan is making subliminal szczaw. I connected with it and experienced something like an electric shock.

2. The water got cooler, but I have no way of veryfing it objectively. The termometer is just not the right tool for the job.

3. The iPad battery is dying. But I am sure it will reincarnate in some hot chick body.

;)

just moosing a bit
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 17, 2014 - 02:45pm PT
Moose. Who is experiencing all of this?
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