Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Messages 18721 - 18740 of total 22369 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jan 7, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
There are all of these logical, mythical, rational, emotional claims and arguments going back and forth between people--and they can be clever, interesting, and all--but they tend to ignore, for me at least, how cool it is when nothing seems all that serious or concrete in the universe. It's like floating or flying. There is a tremendous sense of open-ended freedom yet irresistible engagement, and a lot of peace and relaxation that one feels in whatever-this-is.

The rest, . . . pfffttttttt! . . . doesn't matter. A little bit overblown, sometimes.

Words and abstractions are like colors on a canvas when compared to the rose.

Be well.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jan 7, 2014 - 10:03pm PT
I was also thinking about why someone like DMT or JGill would not take up the challenge and sit for 30 minutes a day for a few weeks and observe the experience; just as an interesting experiment and report back. I was thinking they probably have a strong idea that it is not for them. Similar to me and Christianity. Or they just really are not that curious about it (PP)


For several years in the late 1950s and early 1960s I did just that. I found that meditation calmed the mind as it stilled the body. I would frequently meditate for a short time before bouldering - much to the polite amusement of bouldering partners like Yvon Chouinard, who mentioned this in print somewhere or other, perhaps quoted in Master of Rock.

I was able to achieve the state in which individual objects no longer retained their unique qualities and everything seemed one, undifferentiated. I never reached the state JL talks so much about, however, in which consciousness is completely empty.

Fifteen years later I engaged very successfully in the Art of Dreaming or whatever one wishes to call that experience. I was stunned by the success I had on my first try, and it left a vivid memory of my "will" and consciousness departing my body and engaging with a world similar to our normal world. This was a startling glimpse of the true origins of religion, that I had never suspected before. It was more real and sharply defined than we normally experience - there was a freshness and clarity of colors and shapes that I had never seen before, and my "I-consciousness" was freed of the shackles of gravity and physical impermeability. I literally could move through walls.

So, I think I have a little something of a background from which to make my critical comments.

It's all mental phenomena, no matter how profound it may seem.


Edit: screw branes
MH2

climber
Jan 7, 2014 - 10:19pm PT
Yes, but perhaps some mental phenomena are stuck on the Planck brane along with the top right quark?
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 7, 2014 - 10:28pm PT
How about you, mystics, have you studied mathematics or physics for the most of your lives?

lol!
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jan 7, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
Jgill and DMT Thanks for posting it is enlightening. "This was a startling glimpse of the true origins of religion, that I had never suspected before" (JG). I was also very surprised that things weren't necessarily as they seemed!
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jan 7, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
Moosedrool I am reading the "Joy of X" hoping for a short cut to math understanding.
WBraun

climber
Jan 7, 2014 - 11:24pm PT
How about you, mystics, have you studied mathematics or physics for the most of your lives?

There's no mystics here at all.

Why you come up with such bullsh!t?

This what you people do just throw words around, make flowerly fancy ass posts, and quotes from people you really don't fully understand but think you do.

You only speak from that blob in your heads you call the brain but not from your heart ......
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 7, 2014 - 11:28pm PT
I speak from my heart Werner.

DMT
WBraun

climber
Jan 7, 2014 - 11:33pm PT
I know you do .....
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 7, 2014 - 11:36pm PT
Cheers

DMT
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 7, 2014 - 11:37pm PT

Moosedrool I am reading the "Joy of X" hoping for a short cut to math understanding.

PPP, I am sure it will help you like the meditation helped me ;)

Herr Braun, enlightening as always!

;)
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jan 7, 2014 - 11:51pm PT

Better to embrace life in all its pain and joy, get on the tiger and ride, and lean as much as possible to the good. Not because you need to please some God, but because “good” is an inherent human tendency the pragmatic benefits of which are socially sustaining.

Sure, doing good receives good. It's tested and proven everyday, by everyone! Some, once experiencing good reach back to those not doing so good. And even bad. That's where some ask why? And to some the answer comes from God. Healthy people don't need a doctor, and Jesus didn't teach to the good. Christianity isn't about a way of life as it is a respect of ALL life
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 7, 2014 - 11:59pm PT
Christianity isn't about a way of life as it is a respect of ALL life

Except for those that don't believe in your God.

Remember the Crusades?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jan 8, 2014 - 12:21am PT
^^ I don't think the crusades had anything to do with Christ.
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 8, 2014 - 01:00am PT
I don't think the crusades had anything to do with Christ.

And I don't think killing 20 million people in Russia had anything to do with Marx.

;)
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jan 8, 2014 - 01:09am PT
Good! Atleast we are at one agreement.
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 8, 2014 - 01:28am PT
OK

Then

Christianity has nothing in common with Jesus Christ.

Agreed?
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2014 - 01:36am PT
And I don't think killing 20 million people in Russia had anything to do with Marx.

I don't think there is a proper historical parallel being drawn here.

One can make the case that the Crusades were driven by rather complex factors at play within Europe at that time. The core of Christian morality and dogma were the least amongst these factors , and western Christianity operated merely as a sort of overarching rationalization for what were essentially non-religious goals and motivations---having more to do with the procurement of booty, the siphoning off of competition for power in growing nationalist structures within Europe itself, and an attempt by cabals of gentleman adventurers to gain recognition and to advance their various fortunes and careers, such as the Knights Templar.

The forced collectivization of the Ukraine to which you may be referring in the above reference to the "20 million" killed ,was a thoroughly Marxist/Leninist enterprise from the get-go ,carried forth by Stalin to subjugate a key agricultural region over which the Soviets sought to brutally impose the growing Communist ideological diktat. When the Ukrainians , led by the more vocal upstart Kulaks, began to forestall Stalin's draconian efforts, the sociopathic dictator forcibly starved them to death. In the millions.

Hitler, viewing most of this from the Reichstag, admired Stalin, and sought to learn from him. It also convinced the German dictator that Russia might be all the more weaker and demoralized ---and as a result played a significant role in the eventual inspiration and planning for Operation Barbarosa

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jan 8, 2014 - 01:59am PT
I'll need ur definition to proceed.

Hey, BB, are you talking to me??
Are you talking to me?

Credit: Ward Trotter
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Jan 8, 2014 - 02:22am PT
Btw,

Jesus and Marx wanted pretty much the same. Sharing wealth, carrying for all people, etc.

One can say that Jesus was the first communist.

;)

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